Thread: Reality As You Know It Does Not Exist

Originally Posted by Kromoh

No, that is not believer stuff. That is misinterpretation of scientific facts. As I said many times before, a bunch of ignorants who read an article about quantum physics and think they know enough to make conclusions. That postulation is more of a thing made to ensure scientific accuracy, lol

Where, exactly, is the misinterpretation? You say "the postulation is more of a thing made to ensure scientific accuracy," when the postulation has been argued, by some quantum physicists themselves to mean exactly what I've implied. That is why I brought it up.

Originally Posted by kromoh

I know what you mean, and that was something I tried to make clear in my argument. Say Jack is a human being, we can logically assume that Jack, for being a human being, will behave like human beings, and will do things based on love and whatnot. But the reason why a man would throw himself down a mountain is more in the area of psychology than physics. I'm not saying love is by no means logical, I mean, it is even an evolutionary advantage, but in terms of primary levels of physics, love is not a rule the universe obeys. Love is a thing that may cloud our understanding and comprehension of things around us.

No argument there.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Haha man, don't say my position is infected if you failed to understand where i come from, twice. Know what you're talking about before you talk about it. My behaviour in this thread doesn't prove or disprove any of what I'm saying. The truth is one, but some people interpret it wrongly - just like The Cusp saying he has dream control over reality. I try to be formal and respectful, but that opinion of his is just cracked up stupid.

I understood where you came from. Or, more specifically, I figured it out, after realizing it was completely irrelevant to the video, and being forced to look at it from that perspective. I also didn't say whether your behavior proved or disproved anything you said.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Man, its what I've said from the beginning, for your masculinity's sake, stop repeating yourself.

Lol. For "my masculinity's sake?" As if my masculinity is threatened because I sometimes have trouble understanding what you're trying to convey.

Originally Posted by kromoh

There is a lot of credible scientific knowledge in the video, yes,

That's actually the first time you've said that, I believe.

Originally Posted by kromoh

but there is also a lot of monolithic conclusions and opinions which are by no means scientific. Basing an opinion on scientific facts doesn't make the opinion scientific. Also, I've already said how many of the people in the video know nothing about particular physics - just read a text or two and think they are in position high enough to make conclusion. Particle physics is made from observations, and the observations are the only facts to it - theories like the Standard Model are far from being completely accurate, and that's something scientists are well aware of.

I don't argue that there are probably many overall opinions that they have just concluded based on the things they have read, but you have time and time again done nothing to refute those opinions except with a huge uncertainty tangent. The reason I keep repeating myself is because you continue to dispute the validity of the video, focusing only on the smallest part of it (the outstanding philosophical opinions of those discussing the scientific material). I'm going off of your seeming to hang on to the position that the material in the video is bullshit, when the video wasn't even fundamentally about those final opinions. They were simply conclusions tacked on to the end of the main body of the piece.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Man, please. Stop repeating. I criticise the opinions, and the arrogance on people's stance of learning about particular physics through a "For Dummies" book and thinking they are credible enough to state opinions about it.

I'm sorry...I could have sworn I just saw you state your opinion on Schroedinger's cat.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Furthermore, I criticise their practice of placing opinions amidst scientific facts intending to make the opinions look like facts. Finally, that whole paragraph of yours was just style without substance. Don't make up sophistic arguments for the sake of sounding credible (or, as one would define, "winning the argument").

What are you talking about? I've still been stuck on your opening opinion that "this documentary isn't even close to reaching some truth," because you've been steadily trying to maintain the illusion that you were right. Though it's slowly come out, through subsequent posts, that you were only talking about the smallest portion of the video (the closing opinions about "how we should treat each other"), which is all fine and good. You are mixing two concepts, though, trying to discredit the scientific concepts the people are talking about by saying - with absolutely no substance of your own - that they don't know what they are talking about. When it comes to the scientific concepts they are talking about, you only have to read Naiya's posted article from New Scientist (for starters, I hope), to understand the validity of the concepts. That is all the substance I need.

But as for the "how we should treat each other" ending message in the video, I don't really (care too much to) oppose your position on it, since it wasn't the crux of what the video was about. It is when you continually say things like "those people don't understand the concepts they were talking about", as if that argument somehow helps you, when you can read any basic text on the subject and realize they understand more than you are giving them credit for.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Where, exactly, is the misinterpretation? You say "the postulation is more of a thing made to ensure scientific accuracy," when the postulation has been argued, by some quantum physicists themselves to mean exactly what I've implied. That is why I brought it up.

Lol. For "my masculinity's sake?" As if my masculinity is threatened because I sometimes have trouble understanding what you're trying to convey.

I mean that you look like a girl repeating the same thing all the time

That's actually the first time you've said that, I believe.

Don't make me retroquote again.

I don't argue that there are probably many overall opinions that they have just concluded based on the things they have read, but you have time and time again done nothing to refute those opinions except with a huge uncertainty tangent. The reason I keep repeating myself is because you continue to dispute the validity of the video, focusing only on the smallest part of it (the outstanding philosophical opinions of those discussing the scientific material). I'm going off of your seeming to hang on to the position that the material in the video is bullshit, when the video wasn't even fundamentally about those final opinions. They were simply conclusions tacked on to the end of the main body of the piece.

LOL, as I've said many times before, I am self-conscious enough to say that I am not a quantum physics expert, and that there is not point in my trying to refute to some arguments in the video - doing so, I would be making the same mistake they made in the video. Furthermore, as I also said, arguing here will be a waste of time, for it won't change the opinion of the people on the video. You want to say that the video is valid because it has some science in it. Well I say that is just way too simplistic. It's not just one or two opinions thrown in, it's half of the video that's only opinions. Finally, the conclusion to any text, song, video etc is quite an important part, if you didn't learn that one little bit in primary school.

I'm sorry...I could have sworn I just saw you state your opinion on Schroedinger's cat.

LOL that's not what that bit was about. remember what you said before criticising my reply:

You: The material in the video is not hard to understand. Whether the ideas expressed are true or not is always open to debate. No one here is disputing that, but your inability to give a credible argument against the material in the video really leaves one to wonder how well you can back your belief (or disbelief) on the matter.

Me: Man, please. Stop repeating. I criticise the opinions, and the arrogance on people's stance of learning about particular physics through a "For Dummies" book and thinking they are credible enough to state opinions about it. Furthermore, I criticise their practice of placing opinions amidst scientific facts intending to make the opinions look like facts. Finally, that whole paragraph of yours was just style without substance. Don't make up sophistic arguments for the sake of sounding credible (or, as one would define, "winning the argument").

What are you talking about? I've still been stuck on your opening opinion that "this documentary isn't even close to reaching some truth," because you've been steadily trying to maintain the illusion that you were right. Though it's slowly come out, through subsequent posts, that you were only talking about the smallest portion of the video (the closing opinions about "how we should treat each other"), which is all fine and good. You are mixing two concepts, though, trying to discredit the scientific concepts the people are talking about by saying - with absolutely no substance of your own - that they don't know what they are talking about. When it comes to the scientific concepts they are talking about, you only have to read Naiya's posted article from New Scientist (for starters, I hope), to understand the validity of the concepts. That is all the substance I need.

Oh man. As I've said, half of the video is all opinion. That's what I criticise. I'm going to repost something I posted earlier - just to see how repetitive you can be:

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I criticise the opinions, and the arrogance on people's stance of learning about particular physics through a "For Dummies" book and thinking they are credible enough to state opinions about it. Furthermore, I criticise their practice of placing opinions amidst scientific facts intending to make the opinions look like facts.

Also I've already said that much of what you may have understood as scientific fact in the video might actually be only some dumb opinions thrown in, masked as scientific fact.

But as for the "how we should treat each other" ending message in the video, I don't really (care too much to) oppose your position on it, since it wasn't the crux of what the video was about. It is when you continually say things like "those people don't understand the concepts they were talking about", as if that argument somehow helps you, when you can read any basic text on the subject and realize they understand more than you are giving them credit for.

LOL, maybe it's just you giving more credit to them than they actually retain in their arguments. I just can't stand all these "watch this and change your view on life - now with 30% more scientific facts!" videos, if you get what I mean.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I mean that you look like a girl repeating the same thing all the time

That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Don't make me retroquote again.

Please do. Maybe I missed it, but I'd love to confirm.

Originally Posted by kromoh

LOL, as I've said many times before, I am self-conscious enough to say that I am not a quantum physics expert, and that there is not point in my trying to refute to some arguments in the video - doing so, I would be making the same mistake they made in the video. Furthermore, as I also said, arguing here will be a waste of time, for it won't change the opinion of the people on the video. You want to say that the video is valid because it has some science in it. Well I say that is just way too simplistic. It's not just one or two opinions thrown in, it's half of the video that's only opinions. Finally, the conclusion to any text, song, video etc is quite an important part, if you didn't learn that one little bit in primary school.

Ooh. Zing!

It's a shame they don't teach common sense in primary school. If they did, you might have realized that my placing this in the Science and Mathematics forum instead of the Philosophy forum (along with my stating that it was posted for the content related to the Holographic Principle and Bohm's Implicate/Explicate Order theory) implied, greatly, that the relevancy was in the scientific / physical content in the video, and you wouldn't have bogged the thread down with an unrelated reply. Oh well. C'est la vie.

And as I'll say again (since you seem to think declaring that something is being restated helps one's case) I don't think everything in the video is valid (specifically, the philosophical - and again, unrelated - portion). I have not stated any sort of position on that content.

Originally Posted by kromoh

LOL that's not what that bit was about. remember what you said before criticising my reply:
[INDENT]You: The material in the video is not hard to understand. Whether the ideas expressed are true or not is always open to debate. No one here is disputing that, but your inability to give a credible argument against the material in the video really leaves one to wonder how well you can back your belief (or disbelief) on the matter.

Me: Man, please. Stop repeating. I criticise the opinions, and the arrogance on people's stance of learning about particular physics through a "For Dummies" book and thinking they are credible enough to state opinions about it. Furthermore, I criticise their practice of placing opinions amidst scientific facts intending to make the opinions look like facts. Finally, that whole paragraph of yours was just style without substance. Don't make up sophistic arguments for the sake of sounding credible (or, as one would define, "winning the argument").

See first paragraph, above.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Oh man. As I've said, half of the video is all opinion. That's what I criticise. I'm going to repost something I posted earlier - just to see how repetitive you can be:
Also I've already said that much of what you may have understood as scientific fact in the video might actually be only some dumb opinions thrown in, masked as scientific fact.

Half the video? Really? Half the video is about the most basic aspects of quantum physics. The only thing you say (specifically) that you have a problem with, is the philosophical part about "treating each other a certain way" and whatnot. If you are going to make the assertion that "much of what [I] may have understood as scientific fact might actually be only some dumb opinions thrown in, masked as scientific fact", you need to be specific. Unless you know that the scientific portions contained mere opinions, and can point them out, that statement means absolutely nothing.

Originally Posted by kromoh

LOL, maybe it's just you giving more credit to them than they actually retain in their arguments. I just can't stand all these "watch this and change your view on life - now with 30% more scientific facts!" videos, if you get what I mean.

I get what you mean. And more and more I wonder why you even posted on this thread, as that (again) has nothing to do with the portions of the video that are relevant to its being in the Science and Mathematics forum. That is why I continue to be so dumbfounded at your arrogance - seeing as it was a folly that you not only came here and presented a completely irrelevant argument, but you did it with such ego.

But yeah...long story short, I get what you were arguing against. And in that, moot as it was, I agree.

Retro-quoting ->

I took this from the single and first post I found. I didn't take time reading any other, for you wanted confirmation, not numbers, and also because this thread has some incredibly big posts.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

The science contained in the video is undeniable. I just think that the conclusion they take from it is childish.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

The thing I criticize about the video is not the science in it, damn.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

LOL don't be a bitch. That's what I've been saying from the beginning. I say the video bases on that principle. And that principle proves no logical conclusion made from it.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

It's a shame they don't teach common sense in primary school. If they did, you might have realized that my placing this in the Science and Mathematics forum instead of the Philosophy forum (along with my stating that it was posted for the content related to the Holographic Principle and Bohm's Implicate/Explicate Order theory) implied, greatly, that the relevancy was in the scientific / physical content in the video, and you wouldn't have bogged the thread down with an unrelated reply. Oh well. C'est la vie.

I didn't even go into the Science and Maths forum for this thread, I saw it on the Recent Posts. In any case, you posted a friggin video, the thread was about the friggin video, now when I criticise the (friggin) video, you say the video wasn't the point

And as I'll say again (since you seem to think declaring that something is being restated helps one's case) I don't think everything in the video is valid (specifically, the philosophical - and again, unrelated - portion). I have not stated any sort of position on that content.

But you haven't stated which parts you consider scientific and which parts you consider philosophical. Heh it's so easy if we put it your way, isn't it?

Half the video? Really? Half the video is about the most basic aspects of quantum physics. The only thing you say (specifically) that you have a problem with, is the philosophical part about "treating each other a certain way" and whatnot. If you are going to make the assertion that "much of what [I] may have understood as scientific fact might actually be only some dumb opinions thrown in, masked as scientific fact", you need to be specific. Unless you know that the scientific portions contained mere opinions, and can point them out, that statement means absolutely nothing.

Promise to do this when I have more time.

I get what you mean. And more and more I wonder why you even posted on this thread, as that (again) has nothing to do with the portions of the video that are relevant to its being in the Science and Mathematics forum. That is why I continue to be so dumbfounded at your arrogance - seeing as it was a folly that you not only came here and presented a completely irrelevant argument, but you did it with such ego.

But yeah...long story short, I get what you were arguing against. And in that, moot as it was, I agree.

Glória, glória, aleluia! - as the local christians would say.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I didn't even go into the Science and Maths forum for this thread, I saw it on the Recent Posts. In any case, you posted a friggin video, the thread was about the friggin video, now when I criticise the (friggin) video, you say the video wasn't the point

It doesn't negate the fact that the video was in Sci and Math, which is evident by the paths at the top of the page.

You criticized parts of the video (in a way that implied you were criticizing the whole thing, which is where the conflict started) which were, incidentally, the portions completely irrelevant to it's being posted here. Pardon me for being somewhat shocked at your inability to discern that.

Originally Posted by kromoh

But you haven't stated which parts you consider scientific and which parts you consider philosophical. Heh it's so easy if we put it your way, isn't it?

Of course it's easy. I've done it in almost every post I've made, here. I did it in the OP, when I stated the relevancy was to The Holographic Priniciple, and the Implicate/Explicate Order theory (which other people seemed to understand and, of course, you could always look up yourself), in every post where I talked about "the point the video was trying to make" (of which there are many), and in my constantly directing you to the article Naiya posted.

Yes. Very, very easy.
Your turn.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Promise to do this when I have more time.

Okay.

Originally Posted by kromoh

Glória, glória, aleluia! - as the local christians would say.

And all was right with the world.

[Edit]

Originally Posted by kromoh

retro-quoting

Thanks. I stand correct, on that one.
[/Edit]

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

[Edit]

Thanks. I stand correct, on that one.
[/Edit]

You have got to be kidding me or something.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Originally Posted by Kromoh

There is a lot of credible scientific knowledge in the video, yes,

That's actually the first time you've said that, I believe.

retro-quoting:

Originally Posted by Kromoh

The science contained in the video is undeniable. I just think that the conclusion they take from it is childish.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

The thing I criticize about the video is not the science in it, damn.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

LOL don't be a bitch. That's what I've been saying from the beginning. I say the video bases on that principle. And that principle proves no logical conclusion made from it.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

You have got to be kidding me or something.

No. It was actually a typo.

I meant to say "I stand corrected".