WILD - Still Nothing.

[Drax]

Hello. Lost my old account. Anyhow I've cultivated tons of LD's, DILD's mainly. No issue with lucidity. Comes quite easily in fact. LD'd first day I learnt. Since I experience DILD's with no effort. These 2 weeks I've returned to being active in seeking out LDing though. I'm posting like most because I can't WILD. There are only two times I've ever come close. 1) I had a Polyphasic Sleep Cycle (PSC), stupid, I know. I realize physiologically it's impossible. Regardless I begun PSC out of desperation. I had Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder (DSPD). Couldn't sleep until 5:00am. Any earlier = Insomnia. Melatonin (light/dark response) wasn't doing it's job and other sleep neurotransmitters as a result. I'd sleep like a brick for 9 hours, which at 5 am is just bloody awful. Made me depressed and often late to work/college (purposefully sleep deprived to make it). Huge sleep deprivation was the only option as alarms wouldn't wake me in REM Periods (?) (even a 125db alarm). Of course PSC helped me a lot because I could wake up during Deep Sleep (?). Didn't even feel tired, PSC meant I broke up REM periods so intense drowsiness didn't occur. My first WILD came on the 2nd day of the PSC. 1st nap of the day, 30 minutes, 12am. Plugged in Binaural Beats and hit the sack. I had the most amazing experience ever. Dozed off but the beats kept me aware, out of the blue decks of cards flew out into my FOV with unimaginable vividness. Everything was in slow-mo, it was incredibly odd, a dream starts molding around me, books are flying. I'm suspended backwards, floating, in slow motion as it's forming. I couldn't interact. Just watched like the Matrix as this world formed in lifelike clarity. Then boom I get pulled out. 2) After my whole PSC experiment, I concluded my sleep was awful. Started taking 200mg 5-HTP and 0.3mg Melatonin at 1am. Cured the whole issue. Melatonin made me tired, 5-HTP increased Seratonin and caused a REM rebound effect, more lucid dreams plus better quality sleep. This didn't stop me feeling drowsy after REM sleep, don't know why that occurs. I write down 3 dreams a night, 6 sometimes. I thought I'll attempt WBTB. It was great, I could wake 5 hours into sleep. Didn't get extreme drowsiness like before. Any more then 5 hours though and I could barely awaken. Notably though towards the 7-8 hour mark when I awaken, theres intense drowsiness but I'm fading in/out of short vivid/long dreams. WBTB attempts caused insomnia aswell, or horrible constant micro-awakenings during the night. At one of these microawakenings I felt SP (very hazzy/unaware) and a sensation of strangling, this sudden awakening plus nightmare snapped me awake. Once, I simple wanted to WILD and just woke in SP, utilized that lucky situation and suddenly intricate Hypnagogic Patterns up the wazzoo, it was beautiful. Though I couldn't maintain it and the dream dissipated. Techniques: During WBTB I've tried numerous techniques. Counting: Effective, but keeps me far too awake, never get SP/Hypnagogia. Got SP with no prior sleep many time thought. The awful part, Insomnia. I fail, I can't sleep. Micro-awakenings the rest of the night. Seems to happen with active WILD techniques. FYI they aren't awakenings, just drifting between sleep and complete wakefulness. A sleep limbo. It's a nightmare. I sleep but chaotically, I don't remember anything just sudden spurts of awareness. Visualization: I can't visualize. It's a problem. Outside of LDing I can draw still life perfectly, but not from imagination. When I visualize I'm too detail centric. If it's walking down a staircase, I fixate on clothing, hallway, steps. Throw in physical stimuli, the weight of my feet,a banister it works but only in a vacuum. I become distracted unable to combine all stimuli into one giant image. Free-Falling: Should come naturally. My micro-awakenings are often illogical thoughts. But I can't think of Illogical thoughts myself easily. I've waited for illogical thoughts to occur, can't move beyond that, any awareness stops it. I have had horrible episodes where I've awoken and for 30/40 minutes is a persistent stream of illogical thoughts. Followed by the worst headache ever. Had that twice, after bad sleep plus huge amounts of cramming for an exam. Wrapping Up: Sorry for the giant sprawl, tried to make it as presentable as possible. My sleep is complicated so without the prologue of problems I don't think you guys would understand where I'm coming from. Any help would be appreciated. I just don't know where to move from here, I've had some success with DEILD but the transition never holds or typically my lucid dreams black out for the latter half even after lucidity (not lucid enough?). I don't think I've ever had a dream longer then about 5 minutes (in dream longevity). That one experience with PSC was the greatest I've ever felt, I wish I could have it every night. That's literally why I'm intensely interested in WILDing. It was the most profound and vivid dreams I had and after that like some addict I need more .

[gab]

I appreciate your long post. The best thing I can recommend is to read Sageous's WILD class in DV Academy. Compare what you doing with what the lessons are saying. I'm sure you'll find something to help you finetune your method. The lessons are long, but worth every minute of your time. You don't have to participate, but if you do, you can ask questions and receive personalized answers. Happy dreams PS. Please contact a moderator (in blue) to help you get back to your old account, as having more than one is not allowed.

[Drax]

Funnily enough I have read that. Mantras keep me far too awake, anything mild makes me fall asleep instantly. On top of that like I said when I attempt to WILD later into the night I can barely wake up, or I'm simple far too exhausted and instantly fall asleep. WILD is such an engima it works when you don't try (obviously because the purpose is to fall asleep), but when you just try to fall asleep then of course you won't get anything. I just need something that can work as an anchor which is just minimal enough. I just included the other information because I thought it might aid suggesting a better method, WILD is tailored-made to an individual, I just can't seem to find what's working .

[gab]

If mantras keep you awake, have you tried to start falling asleep normally, and then when you close to falling asleep, you start a simple mantra "I'm dreaming". This way, you don't stay up because of excitement from WILDing. And to wake up at night for WBTB - if you drink water before bed, it should wake you up to go to restroom. On your way put the lights on and hopefully that wakes you up a little. But if you don't feel like getting up for a WBTB, try a morning nap if you have time. Wake up at your normal time, stay up for an hour and take a nap. Original method is get up 90 min before normal time, stay up for 90 min, do 10 min MILD and take a nap. What do you think?

[dutchraptor]

Try practising WILD before you go to bed, not for the purpose of actually LDing but I find it easier to concentrate. I will outline my procedure. I start by inducing self hypnosis ( Basically auto-suggestion/ mantra's but they actually work as you aren't just mindlessly repeating them) which I do almost everynight to help with mantra's. I breath in slowly three times and then I visualize a stairs, I tell myself that everytime I take a step I will feel heavier and become more open to my suggestion. After ten steps of saying this I tell myself I am ready to progress, from then on I try multiple things. 1) I try to let my mind wander, I know that I will regain consciousness half way through the daydream and I will almost be ready to transition 2) I try to count up to ten, telling myself that everytime I count a number I will go deeper into my dream and lose focus of my body. Once I can feel my view distorting i try to focus on the visuales you see when you close your eyes not when you are tyring to imagine ( try it now, visualization makes it seem like the its beyond your eyes, I try to manipulate the colour behind my eyelids to change 3) I try pretend I can hear a buzzing noise in the background and I start to lose focus on the things around me. 4) I try to fall asleep without moving until right before I do so I become aware before I transition. Usually I will first lead up to this using some mantras and meditation telling myself I will realize right before I fall asleep to wake up. Do these in any order, or mix them up, or focus on one. personally I find it easiest and most effective to just try lose focus and let my mind wander as it does most of the work for me. You mention being detail centric, as unusual as it sounds this can be used as a good thing. I say, focus on the steps, try to get your mind to work, keep it working until it does it itself and just watch it like a passive viewer.

[Drax]

Dutchraptor could you explain the self-hypnosis? It might be something for me. Regarding my fixating, it's worse then you think. Thinking of steps, I only focus on the steps, I can't incorporate other sensations without becoming too alert or simply can't return to previous visualizations. The mind wandering sounds markedly similar to Jeff777's Free-Falling technique (as you and Gab both suggested). I've tried it but the tiniest piece of consciousness and I snap back into alertness. Thanks a lot to Gab, I'm still trying to cultivate Sageous philosphy of dreaming. Focusing solely on self-awareness and treating all techniques as equal. WBTB 90 minutes prior to awakening sounds like it might also do the trick because I lapse into tons of dreams easily at that point. I'll experiment with anchor mixing to dutchraptor. I do remember a similar technique where you used Vision | Ears | Bodily Sensations | in a linear order. That technique worked amazingly the Auditory Sensation part was distracting due to Tinnitus. Pink Noise often did the trick, but I then notice the Noise and it pulls me out. I wish for a White Noise device linked to an EEG, so it could modulate the volume depending on your brainwave frequency.

[Drax]

Wow, found something incredible. It works and might be great for other people. I was experimenting with Sageous's techniques. Considering how Sageous doesn't RC, just practices Self-Awareness, he doesn't look for dream oddities either. It got me thinking about the nature of dreaming and how it has something to do with Consciousness Testing and Memory Consolidation. It caught my attention that another member recommended a technique for Self-Awarness testing in Waking life. He envisioned himself in objects/animals, projected his awareness onto them and imagined being a carrot/dog. To do this he roleplayed responses like sunlight created euphoria, soil was comfortable, mapping stimulations that meshed with uses/traits of the object/creature. Amazingly it sounds exactly like OBE's. The exit method from a WILD differs, particularly involving trying to move your "dream body". Likely that stimulates areas of the brain responsible for Awareness prior to a dream being formed, causing a decoupling body experience. Anyway to spare the details I thought rather then attempt this in waking life, I'll use it as an anchor. I went to bed and started envisioned myself in various objects in my room. My Computer Mouse for instance, I imagined the sensation of being lifted and moved, I'd flash a red light into my FOV to mimic the mouse laser. I'd imagine the sensation of clicking the mouse as something pressing on the back of my head. The effect was phenomenal. Even without prior sleep! Which I usually don't try. I had heavy hallucinations but of course not being tired I became startled by them. I've rarely had hypnagogic imagery, only experiencing patterns normally. When I DEILD I just get a fuzzy static image like TV monitor and the static starts to erase. But ordinarily on my other WILD attempts stimulation is minimal until the dream starts. In this case the images flashed into my FOV but in full vividness. Remarkably similar to my experience on PSC. After WBTB I woke up 90 minutes prior to awakening (as Gab advised). Sadly as I've explained I'm too drowsy during later REM periods . I did attempt it! I recognized however far far to difficult for me to get the same sensations or stimulations going in my mind, because of lack of alertness. But it was much less alert disrupted from sleep then with a counting method or the others I tried. Maybe tonight I'll become alert more initially but give myself something to help me sleep. Melatonin might do the trick, I know at 0.3mg it helps me sleep but at that dose doesn't interfere with the REM Cycles. If I'm alert enough I can perform the technique in perfect clarity but fall to sleep easily once the Melatonin hits peak plasma. I'll definitely play around with this some more and get back to you guys, I'm onto something here .

[dutchraptor]

Dutchraptor could you explain the self-hypnosis? It might be something for me. Regarding my fixating, it's worse then you think. Thinking of steps, I only focus on the steps, I can't incorporate other sensations without becoming too alert or simply can't return to previous visualizations. The mind wandering sounds markedly similar to Jeff777's Free-Falling technique (as you and Gab both suggested). I've tried it but the tiniest piece of consciousness and I snap back into alertness. Well I really have never looked up how exactly to induce slef-hypnosis, but what I basically got from it is that if you are in calm meditative and aware state the effectiveness of mantra's seems to increase drastically. I have never really understood the point of just repeating mantra's to yourself before sleep (I does work, just not as effective as I hoped). Basically self hypnosis is a meditative state in which you are open to your open suggestion. You can enter this state by repeatedly telling yourself that you will become more open to suggestion etc etc. It actually doesn't matter if you get distracted, can't focus because it is just about getting into that calm state. Neither does it matter what type of medium you use, I like stairs but you could visualize number, or places, anything. I've never really noticed the states effects other than slight serenity so it's not like your aiming to get somewhere, just to make mantra's actually work and prepare for the following WILD. It can be hard to let your mind wander and thats eactly why I practise the self-hypnosis for. It's gets you came and focused and you can actually even tell yourself you will fall asleep right now. It takes practise and experimentation but you will eventually find what works for you. As for the awareness method where you try place your awareness in different objects, I like to use this to quicken the transition from life to dream. I usually mix it with counting like "everytime I count one digit I will get slightly more removed from my body" (I try to imagine looking down on my body or my consciousness being in a different place at the time, just like what you are doing. It certainly works quite well.

[Drax]

I don't think I was very clear. The method wasn't floating around my room, nor leaving my body, nor envisioning my body/consciousness at different places/traveling. Linearly I picked objects in my room and simply put myself inside them. There was no other visualization involved, I didn't envision my room/consciousness seeping into these objects. I thought 'alarm clock' and then created stimuli, experiences and beliefs to go along with that object. I didn't have problems with detail-centrality as things just flowed from the initial belief of being something else, this was the most important factor. The stimuli such as the red laser in my FOV (mouse) helped forward the process seemingly. I think my belief and confidence was key. I can't be an alarm clock clearly, the concept was the main cause of the effect. Shifting perception. Euphoria for a carrot for instance is sunlight. Switching these sensations, perceiving tapping on head as the mouse click. Taking common stimuli and skewing them through a different lens might stimulates an area of the brain for awareness much like Visualization does for the visual faculties of the brain. Or I'm getting ahead of myself and need to do more work . He's specifically how I viewed it. Think of it like placing yourself inside of a box with no other stimuli, being in that box you can imagine any sensation is absolutely anything. I simple imagined seeing through the eyes of animate creatures or black space and sometimes circuitry for in-animate objects (black space worked better). I considered how very claustrophobic and squashed my perception was from before. For my alarm clock which has buttons on the side. I pretended feeling a flicking sensation on my side as these buttons were pressed, I made the clicking authentic in my ears. After a while I spent more and more on one object. I only spent a single minute on the mouse when the heavy hallucinations occurred. This was just in NREM with no prior sleep as a mentioned, and suddenly there was a real sensation of shifting of my consciousness. I wasn't in bed but was in the object, and this followed by a stream of vivid hypnagogic images. I was trying as hard as possible to truly believe that I was this object, that I was inside it. That this was my life and my goal, that I had no human existence or memories but I existed to perform this one arbitrary task consistently.