Thread: Muscle tension and irregular breathing during WILD. [HELP]

Hello there again..
I'm not really sure if i was especific enough for you guys to understand what im going through while trying to WILD (Maybe because 38 people saw my post and didnt quite respond to it).So he i am.

First of all what i've learned by reading posts,and books about the subject,WILD is when you stand completely still on your back and you do a Alert relaxation (Stephen LaBerge's book info) and so your body falls asleep and your mind remains awake.Then after that you shall enter the SP that is a mechanism of our body just to protect us during the sleep process (this is the part that i mess up).And after that there are the hipnagogic images and the dream it self and so on!

When I'm about "relaxed" i do feel a bunch of things that make me unconfortable such as breathing through my mouth,my muscles start to twitch by their own,and i do get quite nervous and sweatty at same time.Basicaly trying to WILD is a horrible experience to me and i really need some help to improve it or go to a method that suit me better.

Sorry for not giving a complete info (backing story) of my lucid dream "carrer",but i've been trying to get LDs for about 2 years now and could only get it once.

Thanks a lot

Cheers.

Hey Caiocontieri.

Hmm first of all I got some good news for you. Swallowing, muscle twitching and even irregular breathing is not a problem to do if you are attempting to WILD.

I mean you do ALL of those things when you sleep normally, you swallow saliva, twitch muscles and perhaps you get irregular breathing if you have a nightmare or a stressful dream. Just think about it, people even talk in their sleep and as they dream, so why would it be such a big deal when you WILD?

And here is something that might surpirse you but with the logic I used before it should be quiet obvious.

Moving as you WILD is ok as well! Just think about the fact that it takes about 90 minutes from the time that you go to bed to when you actually start having vivid REM dreams where you get paraysed (as you dream). So 90 min of that time you are in fact moving, you are just unaware of it because you sleep like a lamb. Videotape yourself and you will see yourself toss and turn every once in a while. So if you feel uncomfortable, switch posture and move it's better to lay more comfortable than to get stressed out over it, get tensed up and not relax anymore.

So you are allowed to move, swallow, muscle twitch, and even talk! Wow in this rate you are soon allowed to do a back flip. (Ok maybe not.)

I see that you are a new member, and well I know how it is you want to be in control and methods like DILD kind of feel like you relay on luck.
But the truth is that when you perform a full WILD (Going through the whole relaxation stage to the transition stage) you need to relay on skill, the easiest way to learn it though is to practise DEILD, because you learn to recognise your non-physical transition sensations and to differate them from your body's own relaxation sensations.

But well what if I told you that there is a way to do something that doesn't relay on either skill or luck, but on science (kind of) .

The only thing required is that you are able to fall back to sleep after an awakening. Sounds simple enough?

Ok now I am kind of advertising my current way of lucid dream, which kind of goes against my standards... But I really want to help and see if you can induce a lucid dream the same way I do. But at the same time create oppurtunities to practise DEILD. Because it is so simple!

If you still want to practise the advanced WILD method I explain how that can be done here: http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/wild-q...7/#post1979289

If you are interested in what I am using right now it can be found here: http://www.dreamviews.com/f20/tried-...5/#post1978197 (Also make sure to read my latest dream journal entries for a demonstration of how the night can look like.)

And if you have any other questions about anything just ask again.

Originally Posted by MasterMind

I see that you are a new member, and well I know how it is you want to be in control and methods like DILD kind of feel like you relay on luck.
But the truth is that when you perform a full WILD (Going through the whole relaxation stage to the transition stage) you need to relay on skill, the easiest way to learn it though is to practise DEILD, because you learn to recognise your non-physical transition sensations and to differate them from your body's own relaxation sensations.

But well what if I told you that there is a way to do something that doesn't relay on either skill or luck, but on science (kind of) .

The only thing required is that you are able to fall back to sleep after an awakening. Sounds simple enough?

First of all i want to thank you for the response,this means a lot to me.
Now about the method you told on your post.. you said that a great method is to set the alarm after 6h and 30 mins of sleep and to put them to wake me up about 20 to 30 mins in between them. My question is.. How many should i put and should i do this for a week or so to start getting results?
Your technique seems to have quite some sense cause i always wake up before my alarm goes off (at least when i get proper amount of sleep)..

Btw.. I will check your dream journals

thanks a lot!

It's not mine, I just explain what the inventer of the method didn't could. No wait since I can explain it with some science I would actually say that it's ok to call it a technique, anway here is the video but remember that when he talks about sleep paralysis ignore it!

All you need to know is the timer setup that is used and that instead of expecting sleep paralysis on the awakenings, expect a dream transition oppurunity or to even already be transitoned, so the rules of DEILD and WILD is applied on the awakenings. It's effective because you basically skip the relaxation process by sleeping unaware and sometimes even the transiton as well, so it induced False Awakenings.

Also keep in mind that because of this it's both a DILD and WILD induction.

The reason to why I never mentioned what I was describing (lucidology timer method) in the post was because it's very controversial to mention that name here.
However it worked when I tried it the first time and the night after that and the night after that! So that is why I wanted an explanation.

But anyway here is the video: Lucid Dream Timer Method: Fastest Way To Have Lots Of OBEs & Lucid Dreams - Lucidology 101 Part 7/12 - YouTube

I am going to sleep now, nightie

Hey there..

So im back again after testing the timer "method" (now i do understand why it's controversial to mention his name in here).. and did quite have some good and bad news..

First the good news are that i did have about 4 dreams (not the best recall ever but oh well..) and i think that if i practise a bit more i will sure be able to LD.

About the bad ones is that:
a)The iphone app i was using (the free version) can only add 3 alarms,so that was a kind of failure;
b)I didn't have any LDs,but that doesnt mean i didn't enjoy those dreams i had;
c)Today i woke up with a little buzzing sound in my ear and i felt like i was kind of tired only in the morning;

And just to finish off i would like to know if you do recomend trying to nap at the afternoon looking after LDs,cause in my case i kind of feel like it changes my sleep cycles up a bit. And also i can't really say its a nap cause normaly when i sleep in the afternoon is for about 6 hours and feel crappy after that period of sleep.

once again i thank you for all the great information you are giving me. it's absolutely priceless!

Cheers

I am glad that you see the potential in it.

Yeah the biggest problem when I use this is not the actual timers, but the program, app or device I choose to use. I use the Alarm Clock Sleep Music app that I can do custom alarms and have autosnooze so I don't have to move on the awakenings. But sometimes this app have some problems and that is kind of annoying.

And it's good to have a mindset of enjoying dreams in themself as you do now, because dreaming is after the first step to a lucid dream.

And I can definitely relate to that buzzing, it actually means that you are on the right track. And that tiredness is something that you will gradually dissapear by making it a habit.

I don't know about the napping thing though, I don't usually nap or sleep in the afternoon so you have to try it and see for yourself.

Your welcome Make sure to help others in need and we are even.

Keep me updated with your progress!

Second day of timer method: FINALY SUCCESS

About the night:So this time i set up about 7 alarms and i did have to stop them. I should have closed my window so that no light could get in,that might explain why i felt it was kind of hard to come back to sleep..So the only trouble im having is the iphone app and coming back to sleep. (i will try to get rid of the light )

So about the dream:Was kind of dumb i admit.. cause i only got lucid in the beggining of the dream,then after that i forgot that it was a dream and started to do what my mother (DC) told me to do.. LOL

I think i may spend my time on planing naps for now.. and so latter I'll be able to transcrip my best LDs to my virtual DJ

So today i am going to try something new.. going to take a "shot" of pure coffe at 4 in the afternoon and set my alarm to wake me up after 30 or 40 minutes. I read an article about it and its meant to be a "power nap".. lets see what im able to accomplish

Cheers

Great! Sometimes I complain about the fact that there is no autosnooze on the timer, but nothing is black and white, perhaps manually snoozing is a better DILD approach since you are by waking yourself up a bit also making sure that the aminergic system gets active. And then perhaps the autosnooze is better for DEILD.
But since I was mainly focusing on DILDing and was using the autosnooze function (which I now see is probably better for DEILDs.)

I guess I can experiment and see what suits me best.

Thanks for updating me on your progress and for making me aware of this. Also... Congratulations to your lucid dream!
And keep in mind that losing lucidity because of a dream character (especially hot girls for me ... ). But this is what's great with this you can easily induce awareness and with time you will learn from your experiences what's appropriate to do or not. For example now when I am in my dream and become aware I immediatelly start focusing on the ground and touch every object I can see, and I do my best to just ignore every DC, even though the girls still distract me...

And good luck with your powernap experiment. Cheers mate

Hey Caiocontieri! How's it going? What I am going to mention now is personal preferences of course, but I think it can help in general as well.

I found another piece of the puzzle to make critical thinking and awareness in dreams more likely and that is calm, peaceful sleep.

When I go to bed without having a relaxed mind, I get stressful dreams that is very hard to get aware of because they are basically just short snippets of each expericence, going BAM BAM BAM, and less time and things in general to be aware of. So I combined this scientific idea with my previous spiritual idea.

Meditation. When I meditate before bed, my dreams get much more vivid and I even naturally had a lucid dream around 02:20 which is 2 hours and 30 minutes before the timer starts! And well when the timer eventually does start to wake me up, I am this time guaranteed to have vivid dreams, and increased my chances even more to have critical thinking in those dreams.

Just wanted to let you know and here is the simple relaxation/ meditation that I use: Spirit Science 8 ~ Meditation - YouTube

And here is the thread where I realized why this was effective: Harmony of The Mind - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Results from first night combining it: Successfully lucid dreamed, ah yeah

Hey again!

Well i have to say that i am quite impressed with you're attitude,because normaly what i would expect from a dream guide is just a little bit of explanation on a method and "good bye until the next topic".So i do thanks for being awesome!

Now about LDs.. I haven't really thought about relaxation nor meditation,normally i go straight from my notebook to bed and i've read in so many articles and books that you must keep distance from light emitting devices. And actually stress is building up too to be honest.
And what you said about LDs being short.. in my case they are even worse and instable.

So i tried naps for 3 days and simply can't fall asleep.Have you heard of binaural beats? i think Lucid Monogatari said is a great way to get in a relaxed mood.. want to know your opinion on that.

I will try today meditating.

thanks Master

Cheers

Binaural Beats is a great tool, but it shouldn't be seen as a guaranteed way. Just like I can't write a post and make you lucid, you can't just listen to binaural beats and get relaxed. Binaural beats should be seen as an ally or a friend that helps you relax on your own, because in the end the work that needs to be done has to be done by you.

The Spiritscience - Meditation video I sent you explains a little about binaural beats as well.

And last but not least, meditation is technically not something you do because the art of meditation is simply to help you relax and do nothing.
It's just that our stressed minds in this society makes it sound hard and difficult, so to do nothing thereby oddly enough become an act in itself.

So do or do not, there is no try.

"The best meditation is a mind that let's go and the best actions doesn't confirm with the world's ways" - Buddha

May the force be with you, wax on wax off etc.. And here is 7 min of more inspiration -> Reel Wisdom: Lessons from 40 Films in 7 Minutes - YouTube

Let go ofyour fears little Jedi “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda

"I am trying to free your mind, but I can only show you the door. You have to be the one to walk through it." - Morpheus
"Learn from the masters and the master you shall become" - MasterMind

Ok got a little carried away there... But I can go on with inspirational quotes for ages

Sweet dreams! :sleepmeditate:

Hello

I've been meditating and thinking about why in the most part i cant succeed on LD,and what is really holding me are simply bad thoughts on not being self confident.So from now on i tell myself that i wont let anything take over my mind.

Also as i posted on my workbook i am reading again "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming" and that is making me passionate about dreaming and lucidity.

Was basicaly an update..and BTW:i totaly agree with your POV(as i read on your DJ) and think that i might look up for more motivational quotes.

Cheers

Looks like you've been having success. Not much I can help with here haha. Congrats.