I'm missing some WBTB information. Plus some other questions

[Superadam051]

When you try to WILD with a WBTB how long do you usually spend on actually trying to do it, if that makes sense. I know that getting up for 15-60 minutes average helps but I wanted to know that say, I attempted a WILD instantly after waking up in the night, how would this differ from staying up an hour and then doing it? Would you have to spend that extra 60 minutes actually attempting the WILD in bed, just laying still and trying it? (if you tried it instantly). How long does it take to reach the stages where you sense that you're about to WILD? Like a threshold. When you wake up, on average, how many minutes would the next REM period be away? I assume this is essentially the same question as above, this would be the period that you would have to wait until. I know these may be repeated questions (not the first one so I've seen). My mind needs to know exactly what I'm doing each second or it feels pointless and I don't know what I'm doing.

[DreamscapeGoat]

When you perform a WBTB, you spend those 15-60 minutes thinking about the dream you want to have. Get into as much detail as possible - How would the dream smell? Taste? How will you get into the world? I'm not too sure about length, but I do know there are some 'stages' you go through when attempting WILD. Can't really answer the last one; haven't done a WILD myself. Hope I helped!

[Superadam051]

That's definitely a nice tip about what you're doing when you wake up so I'll take that into consideration, thanks However I still need an answer for the other ones (particularly the second one; Would you have to spend that extra 60 minutes actually attempting the WILD in bed, just laying still and trying it? (if you tried it instantly). )

[Highlander]

Hi, I'm no expert at WILD but I can hold my own with DILD, using WBTB. Basically the difference is when you get out of bed for a WBTB then you are 'waking' yourself up more, whereas if you stay in bed then you are highly likely to fall back to sleep again. There is a fine balance in all of this. Some people look for 'markers' like feeling lighter, more relaxation, hypnagogia, etc. However not everybody gets this, or it can be fleeting. It is important that you don't rely on the 'noise' which may accompany your attempt as focus needs to be away from your body. I generally start losing my counting anchor! The above hypnogram should give you a good guide in regard to your REM question.

[Superadam051]

Thank you Highlander, I'll definitely take those into consideration. So getting out of bed is effectively just so you can stop yourself from falling asleep? It has nothing to do with reaching REM faster? (I say faster, i mean not spend as much time in practice)

[Highlander]

Yes ideally a good WBTB is one where you wake up naturally say after 5 or more hours of sleep as you are probably already aware of. You are awake enough where you can think of lucid dreaming related things, etc. which is the whole idea behind MILD and incubation. When you go back to bed you hopefully take advantage of the later REM stages which are longer. The individual would have to experiment with the optimum WBTB length. Too short and it might not be very effective, whilst too long is likely to increase the time it takes for you to drop back off to sleep again. The hypnogram (in my previous post) does seem to indicate the 'perfect' sleep. In practice an individual is likely to have 'micro awakenings' (hopefully post-REM) which they could no doubt try DEILD which goes back to your staying in bed question where a WBTB wouldn't be necessary.