Originally Posted by Radek
OK, first things first: You wait, get imagery, go back, and then you don't proceed? Why is that? And how do you know you were close to NREM stages, and not REM?
well, by definition I'm in N-REM stages from the sleep onset (stage 1) to the deep slow sleep (now called stage 3, in the past it was called stages 3 and 4), but what I don't know is if I only pass through the stage 1 and 2 (so with the sequence 1,2, REM) or if I go for a little while through the stage 3 (sequence 1,2,3,2,REM).
I don't know if I loose consciousness somewhere at the end of the stage 2 (in the first scenario) or when I enter in the stage 3 (second scenario).
Most of the cases, after having lied a while on my back, struggling against itches and envy of moving, I finish by being bored and allow me to roll on my side.
Then I continue repeating my mantra, but staying focus is much more difficult in this position, and I quickly fall asleep, and that's all.
As an example, this is what happened this night:
I managed to sleep from 00h00 to 5h45 without getting out of the bed, which is close to what I wanted to do : a WBTB after 6h of sleep.
So this is a good point.
I stayed awake for about 25 min on another room, looking at TV (it's bad, I know, I should have been just meditating or something, but at this moment the Idea of meditating sounds very boring to me, my brain is hungry, it needs some informational food, I have to work on this tendency).
Then I returned to my bed, put my Rem-Dreamer on so that it won't track my Eye Movements before one hour.
I lie on my back and start to relax, repeating my mantra "to stay concentrated" each time I inhale.
I focus on my body and my mind switchings, I feel my body becoming loud and numb, as if it was paralyzed but I know it is not, I try non the less to imagine I really can't move it as it help me to relax.
This night, at this moment I also tried to notice when some of my head muscles (jaws, muscles around my mouths, and so on) are contracted, because I unconsciously contract them which prevents me from being 100% relaxed, so I tried to relax them each time I noticed these muscles where contracted.
Each time I was doing that I was hearing the internal sounds of my body, a little bit like if I was under the water of a swimming pool, cause as I always wear ear plugs to sleep, when I relax my jaws and mouth muscles, my ears seam more connected to my body's internal sounds.
So when I noticed this phenomenon I started to also focus on this sound, which I found helpful to stay focused.
After a while I felt something moving close to my right shoulder, that must be a kinesthetic hallucination.
this last point is maybe a clue that indicates that the REM stage is close, but not necessary.
I have read somewhere that such hallucinations are linked to the stage 2, and elsewhere I read it was linked to the stage 1.
The fact is that, when I am on the sleep onset phase, if I try to hear random voices, most of the case I do hear random voices saying short random sentences, and the "sound" become more and more real.
I didn't do that this night but this is the proof that real like hallucinations are possible during the sleep onset (stage 1 or 2).
So I don't know if this thing moving near my shoulder was a clue that I was close to REM or if it was just related to the stage 2 of N-REM.
Then I started to be very bored to stay on my back, so I rolled to my side and as usual I continued to focus on my mantra but quickly felt asleep without noticing it.
The rest of my night, my Rem-Dreamer went off several times, but I never was able to manage to DEILD.
then I slept from 8 am to 10 am with a bunch of dreams, witch is why I think this last 2 hours of sleep are more likely to be suitable for WBTB+WILD attempt, but without an alarm, I find it impossible to wake up in the middle of this friendly window.
As for that heart sensation, I sometimes feel like it's going to explode, and it's difficult for me to keep still I can't say I like that kind of things; I like vibrations, sounds (I never get images), but the chest crushing sensation, exploding heart, and feeling like I'm suffocating aren't things I look forward to when I WILD, but in all fairness, they're just uncomfortable, not painful or anything. They also mean I'm close to my goal (but sometimes they're not there and I can still make it through, so they're like a side effect or something)
When I WILD, two things happen to me (if I don't fall asleep): I get some sensations (vibrations, chest crushing etc.) and after waiting them out I can get up from my dream bed (or from the floor - it's happened) or I get the sensations and after waiting them out I'm just back and nothing happens. I've always considered the second scenario a failure, because it just feels I'm wide awake and not in some dreamless stage. A few days ago, afraid of the same thing happening, when the sensations hit me, I stared at some little points in the darkness, not paying ANY attention to the sensations. Needless to say I woke up in a dream, so I guess it pays not to concentrate on them, but to acknowledge them and keep doing what you were doing.
This happens rarely to me, when I WILD, let's say "by luck", or "accidentally", I just see my imagined scenes becoming real in few seconds, and I am in the LD (no matter if these imagined scene where visual, tactile or kinesthetic).
Most of the case, when my heart begins to accelerate and my body begins to feel weirds stuffs, I feel so stressed that it must end the REM sleep onset.
Nonetheless, once, when took Galantamine, I started to feel these tremendous sensations and Eventually felt my body separating from my sleeping body, with the accelerating heart, but I managed to ignore it, to stay calm, and I finally my first OBE.
During all my other Galantamine associated succes, about one hour+ after having took the pills, I start focusing on imagining myself doing physical stuffs, like walking, or practicing bicycle, and few second after, I am doing it for real in the dream, fully lucid.
basically, when I am on Galantamine, I easily live what happened to me "by luck" several times, when I didn't plane to WILD before it was happening. Galantamine seams to bring the physiological and mental conditions to make the WILD more likely to happen.
Probably because it is a pro-REM molecule.
I don't either, and yes, I should I don't know, I always try WILDing after getting up from bed and returning to it, never right after I wake up - I just feel I would fall back asleep fast.
I think that a short WBTB will be necessary at this time as you really fall asleep fast during this period.
As for supplementation, I've never used it, but I think it's not a bad thing, and can help. Still, just like you, I want the process to be natural and without any support. But that just me.
It is not a bad thing when you know exactly how it works, how to take it and what it does.
None the less, even if I have got more than 20 successful WILDs with G, contrary to what I initially thought, It doesn't really help me to learn "how to WILD", it's like learning bicycle with the two side wheels, indeed you really start to learn when the side wheels have been removed.
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