What are people looking for in a WILD guide?

[Mzzkc]

Kicking around ideas for something radically different. Wanted to see if folks who frequent this sub had any ideas of how they'd like to see the art of WILDing progress. If thinking of stuff on the spot from such a vague comment is too tricky (trust me, I get it) here's a quick survey: What do you struggle with when transitioning from a waking state to a dreaming state? Which is more important to you: Theory or Application? If you'd like, please explain your answer above. Would you be willing to participate in a beta test? Any other comments or questions? Please be aware, I'm making zero promises at this stage. Just trying to gauge interest level and community needs. <3

[Samael]

Haven't actually managed a traditional WILD, though DEILDs seem to be something I can do more naturally. Thought I'd chime in on this bit: What do you struggle with when transitioning from a waking state to a dreaming state? Brief late-night/morning wakeups aside, I'm not able to fall asleep unless I let my mind wander. I usually set my mind on a story idea or let it play on "what ifs" from existing fiction, that way I'm thinking less about to-do lists or terrible failures of whatever. I think that I fall asleep at the point that I transition from consciously arranging plotlines into what's probably a state where I'm just observing. Hard to say, because I don't have recall of that point.

[Chewnie91]

Hello, I like to think of myself as someone who is fairly fluent with the WILD induction technique. I am very curious to hear more about your radically different idea I'm always up for some new points of view and different methods! I'll go ahead and add some input about the difficulty of transitioning. I think the hardest part for people (myself included) is being able to consciously ride out the transition. Finding an anchor that works is key to get through the many pitfalls of attempting a WILD. Touching on Samael's point, if you allow your mind to wonder on various thoughts for too long (without the ability to remain self-aware), it is inevitable that you will eventually drift off into unconsciousness. I would also stress the importance of performing a WBTB. I find that many people still attempt WILD's at the start of the night, which is not impossible, just more difficult, especially for someone just starting out.

[Sensei]

Hmm... I usually am worried about accidentally keeping myself awake, so I lean towards sleep, which usually makes me DILD a lot more than WILD. Theory is usually more important to me, because I think that there is some truth to most theories. I make an application from other theories. I do usually start from instruction from others and go by "feeling" after that. Using things like "SSILD" as a starting point for finding a feeling. I now do something wholly different from SSILD, even though it helped me find the feeling. I can participate. I usually take about 2 or 3 minutes and "feel" if the WILD is close. If it is close, then I just let my mind wander a little bit longer and grab onto my anchor. If I don't feel the WILD close, I just go to sleep and try for DILD. If I am on a bad sleep schedule and don't feel like a DILD is going to be likely, I will just try to WILD on each of my WBTBs instead of trying for DILDs. I think that consciously riding out the transition from wake to sleep is obviously the hardest part, because that is very simply the definition of a WILD.

[Mzzkc]

Awesome stuff so far! I'm seeing exactly what I was hoping to see, but more data points are necessary if this (totally theoretical) guide is going to be on par with my previous WILD guides. Super exciting. =)

[mimihigurashi]

What are people looking for in a WILD guide? A way to not pass out unconsciously in 99% of the attempts. At least in my case, lol.

[Sageous]

Hmm...why not just re-post your original WILD Guide, Mzzkc? It's old enough that newbies to WILD might see it as new and radical. It's also still right on the money, BTW; it is kind of hard, after all, to make something comprehensive even more comprehensive, especially when available knowledge about WILD has not changed since you presented that tutorial five years ago. And yet, here we are: Kicking around ideas for something radically different. Wanted to see if folks who frequent this sub had any ideas of how they'd like to see the art of WILDing progress. I don't frequent this sub, so I'm not sure I qualify as a contributor here, and I perhaps over-conservatively think that the art of WILDing is pretty much mature -- for me it's the art of the lucid mindset that fosters WILD which still has a lot of room for growth and perhaps a dram of radical thinking (i.e., with the proper lucid mindset in place, WILD really is as simple as "Lie down, hold still, and wait."). Still: What do you struggle with when transitioning from a waking state to a dreaming state? Holding my focus, and remembering that I am self-aware and plan to stay that way straight through to the dream. Which is more important to you: Theory or Application? Application, hands down. If you'd like, please explain your answer above. Theory opens too many doors to over-thinking the process and getting lost in the noise. Getting to the dream ought to be the most important goal, and this can be done without knowing a damn thing about what you are doing. There is plenty of time later to learn about theory (perhaps by reading your follow-up tutorial, "The Nature of WILD?"). Also, in case this is where you are going anyway: There is a place between theory and application, which I tend to lump into Mental Prep. Yes, you need to lie down, hold still, and wait to WILD, but that application only works if your head is in the right place: You must maintain self-awareness, focus, and real anticipation of the upcoming dream throughout the dive to successfully WILD, and that maintenance does require a fairly disciplined mindset brought about by daytime mental prep, and a real openness to the moment during the WILD itself. These things are not easy to develop, much less master, so if you've got a radical way to develop them, more power to you! ...And, if this is what you meant by "theory," then I change my answer above to theory being the more important thing. Would you be willing to participate in a beta test? Sure. But be advised I'm a lousy lab rat. Any other comments or questions? Nope, other than it's great to see you trying to push the envelope on a subject that has been pretty much stagnant for years; I hope you are able to open some new doors! Good luck, Mzzkc, and I hope they pay attention to you, when the time comes...

[AnotherDreamer]

What do you struggle with when transitioning from a waking state to a dreaming state? Two things: 1. Maintaining awareness and not getting distracted/sucked into my thoughts. 2. Knowing when I'm actually dreaming. I often try to WILD for ages when I'm actually already dreaming; I spend a lot time sometimes just dreaming about trying to fall asleep. Okay, three things! Relaxing enough to actually fall asleep can be an issue for me sometimes, I really like SSILD combined with pretending that I'm free-falling through space for that, but it doesn't always do the trick for me. Which is more important to you: Theory or Application? Application If you'd like, please explain your answer above. I think that theory is great to a point, but I feel like it has kind of harmed my WILDing abilities more than helped them so far. I had figured out how to WILD naturally before I learned any theory, but now I feel like there are so many other elements to the process that I never considered before and it seems to make it more difficult for me than when I simply experienced my senses until they were vivid enough that I was in a dream. At the same time, I think reading about WILD theory has opened the door for me to potentially have a much higher WILD success rate. Would you be willing to participate in a beta test? I'd love to. Any other comments or questions? Yeah, good luck and I can't wait to see what you make!

[~Dreamer~]

I don't think I can really add much to the above, but here's where I'm at anyway: What do you struggle with when transitioning from a waking state to a dreaming state? I have had very little success with WILDs outside of DEILD so far. Usually I either keep myself awake by focusing too much on maintaining awareness (it feels more like I'm thinking about awareness, rather than actually being aware in a way that's conducive to falling asleep), or I feel like I'm so sleepy that I drift off straight away. Sometimes I relax for a while and get to the point where I feel like I could fall asleep soon, so I do something like SSILD or breathing awareness, but after a while, I suddenly realise that I've been distracted with random thoughts/dreamlets for the last minute and I don't remember the point where I lost awareness. I refocus for a while but the same thing might happen several times, until I fully lose consciousness without noticing. Which is more important to you: Theory or Application? Theory at this stage. I have been trying to learn WILD for quite a while now, taking advice from several different sources, and I just haven't been able to break through yet. I have to think that it's because I'm doing something wrong - it's not through lack of trying, and I have plenty of DILDs all the time so it's not an issue with recognising the dream state either. It may well be an issue with an overwhelming amount of info though. I've found with a lot of dream practices that keeping it simple often works best. I am yet to read through some of Sageous' class tutorials (I think I've read 2-3), because I've built it up in my head as this big, important thing that I really want to be in the right headspace for, and I want to commit to trying it when it's fresh. In that sense, I think I'm probably psyching myself out by making it seem like a big beast to conquer. Then again, I was one of those people in school who wanted to read the entire textbook before starting an assignment to make sure I fully understood the theory, so maybe it's just my way. Would you be willing to participate in a beta test? Yes, if there are clear instructions! Any other comments or questions? I have seen some conflicting information about WILD that seems to have equal merit for different people. A big example I can think of is the different schools of thought on HI, vibrations, etc: Sageous advises people to pay as little attention as possible to those things, which he describes as "noise". Sivason focuses on the speckles, colours, and other imagery, and manipulates them to form other shapes, which he uses as the basis of forming a dream scene (here). This thread is another recent example of a degree of conflicting advice regarding DEILD practices. Perhaps this is why someone like me who learns primarily through theory is struggling to come to a proper understanding of how this WILD stuff works.

[Mzzkc]

@Sageous: Thanks for the kind words! =) I'm really hoping I can contribute something that'll shake up how people both think about and approach WILDing. It's probably going to seem totally crazy at first, tbh. Hence why I needed to gather current thought systems to confirm a focus and presentation style. Trying to minimize the "no one is heeding my advice" trope that dominates my life, but I know I'll probably get a good deal of backlash no matter how I got about this particular piece. I mean-aahh--this particular theoretical piece. Phew, that was a close one. @AnotherDreamer: Super helpful! Thanks for the input on the Theory vs. Application question. =) @Dreamer: Solid contribution, thanks. Let me know if you want to workshop some WILD stuff or w/e. =P

[cmind]

Make a guide on how to think critically and separate the high quality guides from the rubbish. Honestly, that's what this community needs. No joke. And it's certainly radical. And now I'll refer everyone to my long-standing sig.

[Sensei]

Make a guide on how to think critically and separate the high quality guides from the rubbish. Honestly, that's what this community needs. No joke. And it's certainly radical. And now I'll refer everyone to my long-standing sig. Teach people how to think critically on the internet? Not gonna happen.

[Samael]

Teach people how to think critically on the internet? Not gonna happen. I think there's probably a niche for giving beginners tips on sniffing out the bullshit, or even being able to tell the difference between "how it works for everyone" and "how it works for some people." That might be a bit outside the scope of this project, though.

[Mzzkc]

I had actually started a project along those lines several years ago (outside of DV). Finished the first of three pieces, but only got halfway through the second. It's a free LDing resource, and I'd link to it here for sake of reference, but Staff would likely remove it on grounds of advertising. *shrugs* I'll totes send it over PM though if anyone is interested. XP Edit: Screw it, no advertising or money is made from the site, thus it's well within DV's posted linking rules: boom The idea was to push for newbies to start with the "why" of things instead of focusing on the usual "how".

[Patience108]

Thanks for caring and great to see experienced Dreamers putting their ideas down regarding your request For me it seems to be being able to consciously ride out the transition. Finding an anchor that works seems key yes when attempting a WILD so I think I am having trouble finding one just now - That very fine line between letting ones mind relax and keeping clear also through the nrem just before the dream... Anything too technical seems to take ages to go in to my brain so for me so I think I care more for the application or experiecial guides...but I am sure theory is still important to me right now I don't know if I could take part in a test but if it is possible I will be happy to