Thread: Making conscious thoughts become subconscious as well

I'm a big fan of pretend memories for dream control as a way to quickly form the proper level of expectation for things to change, at least for external control (summoning & transformation). Personal control like exerting high levels of control on flying I'm less successful with and I usually try to "brute force" those (assertive repetitive thinking I suppose you could say).

I think that in some cases, especially in dreams the boundaries between subconscious and conscious are very thin and sometimes even not visible at all.

A tough one, Dolphin. I feel that in lucid dreams all distinction between conscious/subconscious evaporate. We are in a true one mind, excluding unconscious processes that allow our bodies to continue functioning without our volitional control. So I am unsure how to attack the problem by looking at two different targets, as I see them as one and the same. Perhaps if you could explain your last sentence in more depth. Thanks.

^^ That.

You might consider, Dolphin, that all conscious thoughts are unconscious/subconscious thoughts as well. Your mind really isn't divided into separate entities; all parts of it are thoroughly intertwined and in constant communication. So there is no need to convert conscious thoughts to subconscious thoughts, because they already are subconscious thoughts.

So the answer to the question, "are there any other methods to make conscious thoughts become subconscious as well?" might simply be to realize, especially during the dream, that your conscious thoughts are your subconscious thoughts, and in truth there is no separation between any functions of your mind: "it's all You." This is especially true in a dream, where everything is You.

In a sense, Dolphin, per your OP you may be adding a perspective or assumption of duality to your fully non-dual dreamworld, and that addition is creating an artificial expectation-based barrier to fully controlling your dreams. So, if you can come to understand that in your dream everything is You, including your dreaming mind, you might find that barrier will melt away.

You guys bring up good points. I agree that approaching dream control in terms of conscious and subconscious thoughts is just making it harder for myself.

Rather than approaching dream control as controlling subconscious thoughts, I'll approach it as controlling my imagination. Whatever is happening during the dream is a manifestation of my imagination.

Also, I think I'm too concerned with whether I'm failing or not when performing dream control. Maybe I should make dream control a win-win situation for myself rather than the win-fail situation I have it as right now.

Maybe I could try simply observing the effect intention has on my imagination without being preoccupied with the result.

I like where you're going, Dolphin. Dreams are thought responsive, intent responsive. As has been written, you don't use negative affirmations because the unconscious mind does not register being told not to do something. You end up with the opposite result of what you thought you were requesting. So if you are concerned about falling while you are flying, you are really giving yourself permission through unintentional intention to do that very thing. Your dreaming mind gloms onto your fear, essentially, and down you go. Relax. Zoom. Just my thoughts on it.

Just to add a little, in dreams whatever you think about tends to appear, for example if you look behind you expecting to see an apple most likely a shiny apple will be there. Therefore with dream control you can just simply will something into existence. Of course this requires a certain conviction in your beliefs but given you are already lucid that shouldn't be too much trouble haha. If you allow yourself to get worried about your dream control maybe kinda not working, however, it will more than likely fail. So, as madmagus said, let go off any fear and relax . Hope this helps a little.

I had a few LDs last night. The last one was the best.

At first I tried to make everything in the dream turn blue but everything turned red. Then I ended up going into a series of rooms, saying how each next room would look before I walked into it. I was able to successfully manipulate the look of the room each time. I remember making one room all black, one all white, and one tropical themed. Then I was able to transform into a dolphin which was nice.

However, the mindset of controlling my imagination was a little too abstract to get my head around. So, I'll approach dream control with the mindset that I'm the producer/director/actor of my dream.

I know this thread is about a month old now, but I would like to propose an idea. I've always been under the impression that you shouldn't try and bite off more than you can chew when it comes to dream control. It's a bit like learning to walk the first time. No one can really explain how to make their limbs move, but they know how to do it after they figure it out. If you try and sprint before you know how to even balance yourself standing up, you're going to fall over--there are just too many things you don't know how to do yet. Your brain has yet to experience the proper brain activity that leads to desired result, and it has to forge those pathways for the first time, then strengthen those pathways later on so that the brain activity almost naturally occurs without you consciously thinking about it when you decide to do something.

When you're in a dream, it's tempting to try and control everything with brute force out of a desire to control every detail of what's going on. The dream is a result of a lot of unconscious brain activity that is occurring on its own. If you want a specific person to appear, it would be less likely to end the dream if you simply desire their presence and let your mind do the rest, than if you want to control exactly how they show up, what they're wearing, what hair style they've got, etc. The more conscious effort you focus on making something be exactly like you want, the more likely you are to wake up. The idea behind this comes from the fact that the frontal lobe and prefrontal cortex experience markedly low activity when dreaming, even in REM sleep. This area is responsible for executive decision making and logical reasoning. Obviously some degree of activity is okay for dreaming, but if you force yourself to control too much of what's going on without allowing your mind to naturally produce many of the details, it's not much different than getting overly excited when you first realize you're dreaming and you wake up.

Where does what I said about learning to stand/walk before sprinting come in? Well, practice on controlling minor things and the feelings you experience when you are successful at manipulating the dream. Like with practicing any sport or activity, it'll become more natural and you'll get the hang of it. Eventually, albeit maybe slowly, you'll be able to exercise greater degrees of control. It will probably involve a good balance between learning how to get things to happen while not consciously controlling too many aspects of what's going on, and just the natural phenomenon of learning what you're doing.

Another good example that might help you get what I mean about letting your (unconscious) mind handle a lot of what you're doing is to think about how artists typically go about drawing the human figure. First, they draw out a circle for the head, and pretty much sticks for the other body parts, adding the outside edges, etc. You want to do that... focus on the big picture, and let your mind handle filling in the rest of the details--it should happen automatically. Also, I know I focused on losing the dream a lot, and it's not directly relevant to this thread, but I feel its pertinent to the topic.

I agree with your idea, snoop.

When I recall times where I was able to exert greater control, I find I tend as I'm attempting the control, I'm not so concerned with what the result of the attempt will be.
I figure this lack of concern leaves less room for concern of failing.

I think I could get things to happen by just dictating what I want to happen in the present tense. I'll try that and see what happens, dictating something else if nothing happens whiten a few seconds.