Thread: Why is DEILD not working for me now?

still needing help

Originally Posted by Iriba

still needing help

If you are in deep sleep then you will not wake up at that point. You will only wake up naturally after a Rem period. When you wake after a dream your brain will still emit Rem waves for a few moments and this is when you need to play dead and fall back asleep with awareness

I used to try DIELD after natural awakenings and has some success but once I discovered the incredible power of being woken during a dream then my deild practice started from there

Try reading my post here http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ed-2015-a.html

I don't think DEILD is necessarily between sleep cycles. We can have more than one dream during one REM cycle and that's how we can enter one dream after exiting another one without waking up between them. Or you can also be startled awake in middle of a dream, but not wake up too much only gain awareness and enter a dream lucidly.

DEILD is when you enter a LD straight from a prior dream. That prior dream could be lucid and as that LD is ending, you realize it and you remain aware until next dream comes along.

Or the prior dream is a non-lucid and as you are waking up from it or it's ending, you gain awareness and you enter next dream lucidly.

DEILD is all about when you notice that you're waking up - it starts there. DEILD usually happens in between dreams during REM, not between cycles. Plus, it's not what causes waking up - it's a technique that uses waking up.

But now i'm having problem to wake up after a dream, I'm always into deep sleep.

You can't be, physiologically, always in deep sleep (that would result in going insane and eventually death pretty quickly)
You're just less aware of you natural awakenings at night - all humans, and in fact all dreaming organisms (birds, mammals, etc) wake up naturally at night. However, noticing and remembering these awakenings is something that you either need to practice or it will fluctuate naturally (depending on how tired or stressed you are during the day, etc).
So, if your goal is to notice and remember natural awakenings, you can practice to achieve this:
1. mantra - e.g. "I'll wake up after every dream" or "I'll wake up at 4:15 o'clock" - say these mantras on repeat while falling asleep / before bed. Really mean it.
2. use physiological hacks like drinking too much / too little - to wake up to pee / drink. Or put the AC on too cold / too hot - to wake up from temperature discomfort.
3. get into the habit of taking the time to think in bed (about dreams, awakenings) every time you wake up - eventually you'll start noticing more awakenings - do the same during these.

DEILD just uses the awakening, it can't cause it.

Some tips about DEILD:

1. DEILD can work sometimes without the memory of a previous dream too. If you don't have the recall of what you are waking up from - just imagine the last dream you recall - it doesn't have to be the one you woke from. You can even just focus on some other anchor - like counting or mantra, but I personally find visualizing the previous dream or another scene to be easier.
2. It's better to start DEILD as soon as you became aware. What I mean by that is that sometimes we notice waking up before being fully awake. This is the best time to start. The more awake you are the less likely the DEILD is to succeed. But contrary to the belief of many, moving slightly or opening the eyes for a moment isn't something that can fail a DEILD - unless of course you make an issue out of it and stress about it.
3. My best advice with DEILD is to be decisive - when you are waking up or just woke up, start the DEILD. Don't wait some time while tossing and turning - this will fail a DEILD. But as long as you commit quickly enough, even some movement won't fail the DEILD.

Originally Posted by Spock

DEILD is all about when you notice that you're waking up - it starts there. DEILD usually happens in between dreams during REM, not between cycles. Plus, it's not what causes waking up - it's a technique that uses waking up.



You can't be, physiologically, always in deep sleep (that would result in going insane and eventually death pretty quickly)
You're just less aware of you natural awakenings at night - all humans, and in fact all dreaming organisms (birds, mammals, etc) wake up naturally at night. However, noticing and remembering these awakenings is something that you either need to practice or it will fluctuate naturally (depending on how tired or stressed you are during the day, etc).
So, if your goal is to notice and remember natural awakenings, you can practice to achieve this:
1. mantra - e.g. "I'll wake up after every dream" or "I'll wake up at 4:15 o'clock" - say these mantras on repeat while falling asleep / before bed. Really mean it.
2. use physiological hacks like drinking too much / too little - to wake up to pee / drink. Or put the AC on too cold / too hot - to wake up from temperature discomfort.
3. get into the habit of taking the time to think in bed (about dreams, awakenings) every time you wake up - eventually you'll start noticing more awakenings - do the same during these.

DEILD just uses the awakening, it can't cause it.

Some tips about DEILD:

1. DEILD can work sometimes without the memory of a previous dream too. If you don't have the recall of what you are waking up from - just imagine the last dream you recall - it doesn't have to be the one you woke from. You can even just focus on some other anchor - like counting or mantra, but I personally find visualizing the previous dream or another scene to be easier.
2. It's better to start DEILD as soon as you became aware. What I mean by that is that sometimes we notice waking up before being fully awake. This is the best time to start. The more awake you are the less likely the DEILD is to succeed. But contrary to the belief of many, moving slightly or opening the eyes for a moment isn't something that can fail a DEILD - unless of course you make an issue out of it and stress about it.
3. My best advice with DEILD is to be decisive - when you are waking up or just woke up, start the DEILD. Don't wait some time while tossing and turning - this will fail a DEILD. But as long as you commit quickly enough, even some movement won't fail the DEILD.

Yes I think Spock has covered very accurately what I would have said. Many times I have realized that i have just woken up and I am moving from one side to the other thinking 'Damn, Ive moved now i cant deild' only to finish turning / lying back down then going straight into a deild and being successful.

The key is this ( i think). The movement really only matters if you have consciously chosen to move, thereby firing 'waking life' neurons. If you find yourself already moving whilst waking up then this may be an automatic or subconscious decision which means its largely irrelevant to the success of the deild

I have also noted in the past that when trying to WILD with movement i have not been successful but once i tried to WILD and my wife kept jogging me slightly and it didn't effect the WILD at all

So maybe if you are not consciously choosing to move then maybe it dosnt matter BUT making a decision to move (im uncomfortable, i will roll over) then that would make a deild very difficult as you have largely removed your self from rem waves and are waking yourself up with that logical decision to move

I dont know. ive only thought about this recently, what do you think Spock? (and others)

ezzolucid, I kinda agree but calling it "subconscious decision" somewhat confuses me - I mean, where is the line between a "subconscious decision" and a "conscious decision"? It can be anywhere in between (especially in a barely awake stage in which DEILD is usually done.

I think that it's better not to think about the decision to move at all. If you're really uncomfortable, it might even be a good idea to roll over (or swallow, etc), because such discomfort might "wake you up" by constantly being on the mind. Plus, trying to analyse while doing DEILD whether or not the decision you're about to make is subconscious enough will surely effect the attempt negatively.

I think that as long as you make the decision without thinking too much, just doing it, it won't harm the DEILD attempt. And if you are already thinking about it, it's too late anyway, so just do it and stop thinking about it. That's at least how it seems to me - maybe other would disagree with my reasoning...

Would using the bathroom disrupt a DEILD when waking up?

Originally Posted by kamenriderbaron

Would using the bathroom disrupt a DEILD when waking up?

The OP was mostly asking about micro-awakenings and how to spot them, so I listed all the common ways to practice noticing and remembering more of them. Then I explained why DEILD is not the term used for something that causes micro-awakenings.

As I said in that post, the faster you start the DEILD the better - so if possible you should start it before even fully waking up. It's best to not move unless necessary pr unless it just happens. So if you take a pee break it's not called a DEILD anymore, this would be a visualization for of WILD with very short WBTB. DEILD requires to be as sleepy as possible - being out of bed is too much for it to be called a DEILD.

I have troubles with DEILD too. When I wake up naturally in the night after a dream, I keep my eyes closed and stay still. The problem is that when I wake up from a dream my heart rate increases and I get the feeling that my body is burning and this eventually wakes me up. I don't know why is this happening because I am not overly exited when attempting to DEILD (I've read on this forrum that this is a common cause for increased heart rate).

Originally Posted by Dani23

I have troubles with DEILD too. When I wake up naturally in the night after a dream, I keep my eyes closed and stay still. The problem is that when I wake up from a dream my heart rate increases and I get the feeling that my body is burning and this eventually wakes me up. I don't know why is this happening because I am not overly exited when attempting to DEILD (I've read on this forrum that this is a common cause for increased heart rate).

You might be getting overly excited, or maybe trying to maintain "too much" awareness. It's better to focus less on the anchor (like previous dream) so you can fall asleep - since even maintaining barely any awareness can rebound into full awareness later. But trying to remain fully aware the whole why is usually too "unfamiliar" for people that are new to the method, so this interferes with their ability to fall asleep. It's better to fall asleep than to wake up - so just experiment with how aware you need to be.

Thanks for the answers everyone.

So basically, DEILD is just a failed attempt of a WBTB right?
In some of my cases, i feel lazy and sleepy to wake up and do a WBTB
so i just turn off my alarm and go back to sleep again, would this be considered as a DEILD?

Originally Posted by Iriba

So basically, DEILD is just a failed attempt of a WBTB right?

Not necessarily, you can aim specifically for DEILDs. In some situations it's better to try to DEILD, e.g. if you're still in the process of waking up and very aware, DEILDs are very likely to work. Or when you are waking up from a LD and want to stay for some more time in preferably the same scene (or a new one).

In some of my cases, i feel lazy and sleepy to wake up and do a WBTB

In these situations DEILD might not work if you already tossed and turned for a while. I know that if I'm lazy, I move around a lot trying to force myself to try something. By that point, it's too late for a DEILD.

so i just turn off my alarm and go back to sleep again, would this be considered as a DEILD?

If the only action was mindlessly turning the alarm off, DEILD can work. The less movement the more likely it's to work though, but as long as you're not too worried about moving it's unlikely to be the cause for failure.

Plus, for it to be a DEILD you need at least to try to maintain some awareness. The easiest and most used method is to visualize the dream that you woke up from ('cause it's still on your mind), or if you don't recall a dream just pick an old one, or a TV series or a book universe. Visualize a scene while falling asleep normally and thinking "it's a dream" or "I'm dreaming" or "I'm about to dream" (etc.). That would make it a DEILD.

Let me suggest we separate definition from technique. DEILD is a definition, not a technique. But ultimately, we are interested in technique. There are several techniques related to DEILD, and I think this causes confusion.

Definition

Dream-Exit Initiated Lucid Dream (DEILD): A lucid dream that begins from the waking state (thus WILD), but more narrowly, a very brief waking that immediately follows a previous period of sleep. By "very brief" I would suggest a few seconds up to about a minute or so. In all, the impression is that the waking time is merely a brief interruption of a otherwise connected REM period.

Techniques

Technique 1: Dream-Chaining: You begin in a lucid dream. It may be a long lucid dream, or you may only be lucid for an instant at the very end. In either case, you sense the dream will soon end so you accept that you will wake. But you prepare to remain calm during the waking so that you can re-enter dreaming almost immediately.

Technique 2: Deliberate Interruption: You arrange to deliberately interrupt your sleep during REM with the aid of an alarm or EILD device. With some practice, you learn to remain calm during the interruption and re-enter dreaming while maintaining consciousness.

Technique 3: Accidental Interruption: Without a planned interruption, you nonetheless notice that your REM periods often have brief interruption. This may be because of occasional outside factors (noisy street, pets, partner) or because you are a light sleeper who often emerges into wakefulness during REM. As with the previous technique, you learn to recognize these occurrences and prepare for them so you can re-enter dreaming.

Technique 4: Natural Waking: Your REM period isn't interrupted in any way. It ends "naturally" even though that is a poorly defined and debatable term. Using the same preparation as the above, you can nonetheless extend your REM period beyond it's seemingly natural cycle and re-enter.