Can "GOD" be manipulated?

**Deanstar** · 09-01-2014 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by snoop

Math is not described as the language of the universe because we think it sounds cool, it's because with math you can literally simulate reality, it just depends on the user's proper understanding of math. Saying that 1/3 does not deal with infinity is pretty much openly saying that expressing the same number in an infinite number of ways is not possible, which it clearly is.

You can use maths as a tool, just like you can use english, English uses infinity too? I didn't say that infinity wasn't PART of it. But I did say that it wasn't rational when you add infinity as a concept into your maths. Just like you can have a philosophy about infinity. I could say that if the universe is infinite, that statistically anything is possible. Then I could go on about your clone, about different dimensions. I could talk unlimited nonsense based on infinity, but it would not be realistic or practical.

Originally Posted by Jookia

I don't take bait, so I don't have anything to say to this.

I'm not baiting you, you baited me haha. And I am sorry I missed your post about numbers. A lot of people replied I must have missed it. It's difficult to talk to everyone at once.

Let's talk about fonts. Go open up a text editor and type some stuff, then change the fonts. Maybe have a big font for headings, small font for copyright, etcetera. You might have noticed something, fonts can be as small or large as you want and never look pixelly or blurry! But they're images, they're on a computer screen, they're made out of pixels. As you know, resizing things made out of pixels makes them look blocky or blurry. How do fonts not do this? They can be any size and always look sharp! It turns out fonts aren't made of pixels. They're made out of numbers, lines, and curves. They're vector graphics. When you ask a computer to render text at a specific font size, you get a finite view of the font made out of pixels rather than the font itself (which is impossible to show, it's infinite).

Your computer doesn't have infinite CPU power, it is not running on infinity. It's making a calculated estimate based on what it has lol.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by EbbTide000

Interesting thread. I'm nervous to contribute. ... but ...

At 15 someone identify himself as "God" answered three statements I made, in a place of light. I only had this one audience with "God" and I'll be 55 on October the twelth.

I said:

This is truth. He said "No, this is not truth" (...)

I said:

I am God. He said "No, you are not God". Then quietly he said, "I am".

At this point all my ... belief system, ... was gone because I believed that the "purpose" of life was to merge-with-truth and become "God".

After a while I mumbled to myself:

What's the purpose?

He said:

"I brought you into being to serve you".

Exactly. The strong serve the weak. The strong have no need to have the weak serve them.

Regards
DL

**Alric** · 09-01-2014 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Deanstar

You don't calculate infinite lines, cause there is no way to measure infinite lines. And if a computer needed to load something that was to do with infinity it would never stop loading because the answer would never be complete, just like if you try to measure a bottomless pit, infinite means limitless.

Actually do you calculate infinite lines and there is a way to measure an infinite amount of lines, with calculus. You may not think it is possible to add an infinite amount of numbers together, but is in fact possible. Some times when you add an infinite amount of numbers together you just get infinity but some times you get a finite answer.

**Jookia** · 09-01-2014 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Deanstar

Your computer doesn't have infinite CPU power, it is not running on infinity. It's making a calculated estimate based on what it has lol.

Could you please explain where I claimed a computer had infinite CPU power or that it was running on infinity? However, you got the point. Fonts are an estimate based on what it has, but it's an estimate of infinity. Without infinity, there'd be no way to estimate it in the first place. Infinity is required to make fonts on your computer scalable.

That actually reminds me, an infinite Turing machine is a good example of the fundamental basis of computers mathematically. If you have a Turing machine, you can do any calculation possible.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by DeviantThinker

That is very interesting. That would suggest God brought us into being to give him purpose so perhaps God was suffering from existential nihilism at some point. I'm not saying for a moment I believe it but thank you for sharing your experience nonetheless.

As above so below.

Do inventers create a product to serve man or do they create a product that man must serve?

Jesus preached that the Sabbath was made for man and not man made for the Sabbath.

Follow that line of thinking and note that God was created for man and not man for God.

If you were to encounter God, who do you think would gain from the encounter?

Surly not God, ---if you gain from the encounter, God served you.

I learned this when I forced my apotheosis when God served me. I had nothing to offer God.

Regards
DL

**Deanstar** · 09-01-2014 05:06 PM

sorry kadie about your thread turning into a maths issue, I guess we should stop.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Deanstar

sorry kadie about your thread turning into a maths issue, I guess we should stop.

Let me help.

Job 2; 3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

"thou didst move Me against him,"

To move God to sin is definitely God being manipulated.

Regards
DL

Let me add.

**Jookia** · 09-01-2014 05:16 PM

On the topic, manipulation requires deceit. Omniscent beings can't be decieved, thus they can't be manipulated.

**DeviantThinker** · 09-01-2014 05:37 PM

Can an omnipotent omniscient being deceive itself though? The former attribute suggests yes, the latter attribute suggests no.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jookia

On the topic, manipulation requires deceit. Omniscent beings can't be decieved, thus they can't be manipulated.

There was no deceit in Job. Did you note the wording?

It is quite clear.

"thou didst move Me against him,"

To move God to sin is to manipulate God unless your English does not match everyone else's English.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by DeviantThinker

Can an omnipotent omniscient being deceive itself though? The former attribute suggests yes, the latter attribute suggests no.

An omnipotent God would not need a woman to reproduce or could have dozens of begotten by bestiality sons.

If God cannot reproduce true and has to settle for a half breed chimera for a son.

Regards
DL

**Jookia** · 09-01-2014 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

There was no deceit in Job. Did you note the wording?

It is quite clear.

"thou didst move Me against him,"

To move God to sin is to manipulate God unless your English does not match everyone else's English.

Regards
DL

I don't think the bible is reliable enough to use as a source as to whether the abrahamic god was manipulated.

**Deanstar** · 09-01-2014 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

Let me help.

"thou didst move Me against him,"

To move God to sin is definitely God being manipulated.

In your video, the claim that God is morally corrupt doesn't really hold up to any sort of proper comprehension of the book of Job. God never claimed Satan made him do something. He was explaining that Satan had requested by reason of accusation against Job, to test him. God allowed Job to be tested by Satan (then gave him back much more in return for it, so it actually benifited Job) The reason he allowed there was more reasons than just to prove satan wrong. It was a teaching for the world that's why it's written in a book. Jobs responses and how God dealt with Satans accusations, is all more profound and deep than people like you ever want to admit. That guy in the video makes wild claims about people not having morals, but his logic doesn't follow through properly in what he is saying. Christians don't use Satan as someone to blame they are responsible for themselves. But in the book of Job Satan was responsible for what happened to Job, and you couldn't use God as a scapegoat for it. It's a teaching and lesson from History. It doesn't make God evil. Not even Job claimed that God was evil, Job admitted he was vile in comparison and that God was just. This type of suffering made Job wish he wasn't born. Still he didn't blame God. Unless you went through what Job went through and are as just as Job, you look pretty arrogant even attempting to blame God for anything. This insistence that Christians are corrupt or that the bible is fiction, or that the God of the bible is corrupt. Is all based on nonsense from people that are themself corrupt.

There is a reason not many put their hands up, and there is a reason why people like that guy in the video are so afraid of people like us that believe in the gospel. He truly is threatened badly by it. That's why he goes on stage and tried to reason against it.

God is ofcourse Good, and not capable of being manipulated. The entire message of the gospel is a testimony of his love and our salvation by him. The most crazy and evil thing that you could be involved with is claiming something bad about God, or calling something fiction that is true. That really is true evil.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jookia

I don't think the bible is reliable enough to use as a source as to whether the abrahamic god was manipulated.

That is the God under discussion. What do you suggest we use?

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Deanstar

In your video, the claim that God is morally corrupt doesn't really hold up to any sort of proper comprehension of the book of Job. God never claimed Satan made him do something. He was explaining that Satan had requested by reason of accusation against Job, to test him. God allowed Job to be tested by Satan (then gave him back much more in return for it, so it actually benifited Job) The reason he allowed there was more reasons than just to prove satan wrong. It was a teaching for the world that's why it's written in a book. Jobs responses and how God dealt with Satans accusations, is all more profound and deep than people like you ever want to admit. That guy in the video makes wild claims about people not having morals, but his logic doesn't follow through properly in what he is saying. Christians don't use Satan as someone to blame they are responsible for themselves. But in the book of Job Satan was responsible for what happened to Job, and you couldn't use God as a scapegoat for it. It's a teaching and lesson from History. It doesn't make God evil. Not even Job claimed that God was evil, Job admitted he was vile in comparison and that God was just. This type of suffering made Job wish he wasn't born. Still he didn't blame God. Unless you went through what Job went through and are as just as Job, you look pretty arrogant even attempting to blame God for anything. This insistence that Christians are corrupt or that the bible is fiction, or that the God of the bible is corrupt. Is all based on nonsense from people that are themself corrupt.

There is a reason not many put their hands up, and there is a reason why people like that guy in the video are so afraid of people like us that believe in the gospel. He truly is threatened badly by it. That's why he goes on stage and tried to reason against it.

God is ofcourse Good, and not capable of being manipulated. The entire message of the gospel is a testimony of his love and our salvation by him. The most crazy and evil thing that you could be involved with is claiming something bad about God, or calling something fiction that is true. That really is true evil.

"God allowed Job to be tested by Satan"

Exactly right. Satan manipulated God to allow what was to come.

Strange that you think that Job would be happy that his children were murdered without cause as God says, when he later had new children.

That sure excuses murder. If a man allowed murder to win a bet like your God did, you would soundly condemn him, --- but you show your corrupted morals by forgiving and even praising your God's for murder.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

**Jookia** · 09-01-2014 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

That is the God under discussion. What do you suggest we use?

Regards
DL

I don't know enough about the Abrahamic religions to make judgement on that.

**Deanstar** · 09-01-2014 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

That sure excuses murder. If a man allowed murder to win a bet like your God did, you would soundly condemn him, --- but you show your corrupted morals by forgiving and even praising your God's for murder.

Shame on you.

Regards
DL

Satans accusation was not something that was a light thing, it was highly insulting and needed to be delt with. These were just the cards that were delt. Everyone righteous or not gets things happens to them. Shame on you for not understanding the book of Job. And also for calling me morally corrupt, and a liar.

**Gnostic** · 09-01-2014 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Jookia

I don't know enough about the Abrahamic religions to make judgement on that.

But you know enough to want to ignore his main book. Bright that. Not.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Deanstar

Satans accusation was not something that was a light thing, it was highly insulting and needed to be delt with. These were just the cards that were delt. Everyone Good and evil gets things happens to them. Shame on you for not understanding the book of Job. And also for calling me morally corrupt, and a liar.

You are what you are and it is because of your immoral religion.

What is highly insulting is Go rewarding Satan with dominion over man and giving her the power to deceive the whole world.

Human's punish evil yet your evil God rewards it.

Let's see more of your immoral thinking.

Satan was sentenced many years ago. Is justice delayed justice denied and is it good justice for God to not carry out the sentence he has imposed?

Should man also reward criminals and let them roam freely instead of jailing them as your God is doing?

Regards
DL

**Jookia** · 09-01-2014 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

But you know enough to want to ignore his main book. Bright that. Not.

Regards
DL

I don't comment on the contents of the book, only its authenticity and use as a source. It's a collection of arbitrarily selected gospels without clear authorship, with a good amount written hundreds of years after the supposed happenings.

**Deanstar** · 09-01-2014 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

What is highly insulting is Go rewarding Satan with dominion over man and giving her the power to deceive the whole world.

If you are going to seperate yourself from man, and really make yourself into the ultimate enemy. And have the entire world as a tool to prove yourself as righteous against God. Is that something the enemy should even complain about? What have they done with it though? Just decieved people and caused a mess. Well it all has to be accounted for anyway. Satan had the world, and he couldn't make it work because it was about serving him. The idea that he could be above the heavens like God is ridiculious notion conceived of pride. Quite a frightening objective, now bought down lower than even an ordinary person like me.

Human's punish evil yet your evil God rewards it.

Clearly my God punishes evil and warns that evil will be destroyed.

Satan was sentenced many years ago. Is justice delayed justice denied and is it good justice for God to not carry out the sentence he has imposed?

A severe sentence, ought to be greatful for any delay. It's pretty serious.

Should man also reward criminals and let them roam freely instead of jailing them as your God is doing?

This thing where you assume you know how God is carrying out his justice, or that you assume you have a right to judge against God. It's all born of evil isn't it. Do you really imagine the one that created everything isn't capable or could somehow be replaced? It is insane to even think not to worship the creator. Superior and better in everyway. Capable of what no-one else has done or can do. If you argue with scripture? Your messed up. If you deny the authority of scripture, you are messed in a different way. The prophecy will come true and the words just can't be denied as tested and true.

**Gnostic** · 09-02-2014 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jookia

I don't comment on the contents of the book, only its authenticity and use as a source. It's a collection of arbitrarily selected gospels without clear authorship, with a good amount written hundreds of years after the supposed happenings.

No argument. It is still all there is.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by Deanstar

If you are going to seperate yourself from man, and really make yourself into the ultimate enemy. And have the entire world as a tool to prove yourself as righteous against God. Is that something the enemy should even complain about? What have they done with it though? Just decieved people and caused a mess. Well it all has to be accounted for anyway. Satan had the world, and he couldn't make it work because it was about serving him. The idea that he could be above the heavens like God is ridiculious notion conceived of pride. Quite a frightening objective, now bought down lower than even an ordinary person like me.

Clearly my God punishes evil and warns that evil will be destroyed.

A severe sentence, ought to be greatful for any delay. It's pretty serious.

This thing where you assume you know how God is carrying out his justice, or that you assume you have a right to judge against God. It's all born of evil isn't it. Do you really imagine the one that created everything isn't capable or could somehow be replaced? It is insane to even think not to worship the creator. Superior and better in everyway. Capable of what no-one else has done or can do. If you argue with scripture? Your messed up. If you deny the authority of scripture, you are messed in a different way. The prophecy will come true and the words just can't be denied as tested and true.

You are favoring Satan over people and injustice over justice.

Thanks for doing my job of discrediting you and your genocidal son murdering God.

No wonder you never answer any straight question. You show how corrupting your religion is.

Regards
DL

**anderj101** · 09-02-2014 02:51 AM

As the OP requested, please keep this thread on topic.

If this or another thread goes off topic again, I'll be forced to break out the lightning!

**DeviantThinker** · 09-02-2014 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gnostic

An omnipotent God would not need a woman to reproduce or could have dozens of begotten by bestiality sons.

If God cannot reproduce true and has to settle for a half breed chimera for a son.

Regards
DL

I was talking about a hypothethical omnipotent, omniscient being, not Jehovah. I have very little interest in discussing the Christian God beyond literary terms (like Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia or the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion). For me, the truth value (or rather lack of) in that subject was settled long ago,

**Alric** · 09-03-2014 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Deanstar

Satans accusation was not something that was a light thing, it was highly insulting and needed to be delt with. These were just the cards that were delt. Everyone righteous or not gets things happens to them. Shame on you for not understanding the book of Job. And also for calling me morally corrupt, and a liar.

You basically just admitted he was manipulated. Satan said something insulting and God felt compelled to defend him self. That is being manipulated. God could of just ignored him but instead he ended up doing exactly what Satan manipulated him into doing.

**kadie** · 09-03-2014 07:31 AM

So God, the all knowing and powerful was insulted? He then threw Job under the proverbial bus to deal with Satan? Job, who was by all accounts a good , just and faithful servant of the Lord. Wow, Im glad that was straightened out. Now, shall we be expecting better or worse proof of Gods fallibility?

**EbbTide000** · 09-03-2014 07:51 AM

Job 3 note verse 25

Job 3*King James Version (KJV)

3) - *After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

2) - *And Job spake, and said,

3) - *Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

4) - *Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.

5) - *Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.

6) - *As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.

7) - *Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.

8) - *Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.

9) - *Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:

10) - *Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.

11) - *Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?

12) - *Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?

13) - *For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,

14) - *With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves;

15) - *Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:

16) - *Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.

17) - *There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.

18) - *There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.

19) - *The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.

20) - *Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;

21) - *Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;

22) - *Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?

23) - *Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?

24) - *For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.

25) - *For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

26) - *I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.

**kadie** · 09-03-2014 08:00 AM

The story of Job was meant to show people that they could endure terrible things, but should not give up hope and faith in the Lord. It was one of my favorite Bible stories for that reason, however it always bothered me that God had a side bar with Satan in regards to Job. God did give Satan leave to try to dissuade Job from his faith. Call that free will if you like, but the essence of the story is to not give up.