Thread: Lucid dreaming without methods of induction. Instant?

Originally Posted by atkins513

This is a well known fact. We are warned lol.

2 things this post adds.

1. Flashing lights at various frequencies can have very powerful affects on the brain. This is good.
2. Epileptic episodes would be less likely to be triggered using this, than a typical flashing light, if you keep your eyes closed. The light still gets through but from what I read if there is no focal point, such as looking directly at a light, it has much less of an effect in epileptic concern.

yes personally i wouldnt try and use this for long periods in order to force a WILD. the more intense methods are always the most risky, and their certainly seems to be some power in simple flashing lights. i tried it last night before bed, and after just a minute or so i could really feel it pulsing in my minds eye. i was able to really focus on the imagery behind my eyelids which was kind of similar to what you get from just pressing your eyelids with your fingers. while lying in bed i could relax my eyes while meditating and similar fuzzy imagery was sort of overlaid onto reality. i had a much better meditation than normal and ended it with a wild attempt. i just wanted to visualise doing something really relaxing so i imagined being a turtle floating along. this was great and although i didnt get fully into the dream, it was still a pretty strong visualisation.

anyway in the morning i hit a couple of snooze periods on my alarm and had the longest chain of lucids ive ever had. and that is after a bit of a dry spell, although the dreams have still been more vivid and memorable. it ended with the longest and most stable lucid ive ever had. perhaps about half an hour or so. i was scuba diving along this canal and to stabilise it i was dragging myself along the bottom, trying to feel as much of my surroundings as i could. this worked great and i knew i was going to be in it for a while. i even managed to be so alert that i thought it would be worth having a go at healing myself in the dream. ive had a slight abdominal thing going on lately so i healed that area and it actually feels a lot better today.

i have had long lucid periods before up to about 15 mins probably, but the odd thing about this long one was that i didnt have as much control as usual. my usual reality check of pushing my hand through an object would have been no good because the dream was so stable that i tried pushing my hand through a wall and it just would not go. also i was with a girl trying to find a room in this house, but the house kept shrinking and changing. not in a scary, walls closing in kind of way but it kept happening so i just moved on to a different part of the dream. i ended up with a couple of mates who seemed out of their heads, so i just hung around watching things to restabilise. i was looking at a panel of wood and the grain was so intricate and seemed to glow along its lines. anyway i kept waking up and just willing myself back into a dream. ive done this a lot recently, but never into a guaranteed series of lucids like this morning. cheers folks there is something to this, but i wouldnt over do it

I think the lucid surge may be due to some subliminal state that was induced by this light...possible? You had the intention of wanting to be lucid surely then this light made that idea 'burn-in' as you fell asleep. I had the similar thing happen to me when I used a spot light to shine at my eyes via pressing a switch and whenever I did I think of lucid dreaming and I got a lucid dream after that.

IMJ

sure it could just be something like that, but i do think it plays some kind of effect on the connection between your eyes and mind that is beneficial for dreaming. i did an open eye meditation last night after using this for a minute or 2, and after a while i fell asleep straight into a lucid for the first time. as my eyes were open, i could see why people call this remote viewing, because i was aware of my surroundings, but more aware of flying down the road in a car. this is a common dream and i dont drive much these days which helped to recognise it as a dream. i tried to drive it down to london but it felt quite tough to maintain so it lasted a couple of minutes then faded into an unconscious dream

I'm having this affect me with WBTBs/WILDs.

last night I did my normal ritual of listening to it with the two mp3s. I had trouble sleeping because of some unrelated matters, but just doing it tired me a bit. I slept about six hours, and I woke up to watch something in the morning. I was able to sleep for an hour before I had to go to work and I did. I felt that I was going to have a lucid, and I did in the middle of my nap. It was pretty vivid, and I noticed at the end that I sort of phased out of the dream with flashing black and white light, and that to me said everything. One of the mp3s is subliminal messages. Maybe the combination is working.

I'm not awesome like whiterain and having them in the beginning of the night though. lol

Originally Posted by WanderingMind

I'm having this affect me with WBTBs/WILDs.

last night I did my normal ritual of listening to it with the two mp3s. I had trouble sleeping because of some unrelated matters, but just doing it tired me a bit. I slept about six hours, and I woke up to watch something in the morning. I was able to sleep for an hour before I had to go to work and I did. I felt that I was going to have a lucid, and I did in the middle of my nap. It was pretty vivid, and I noticed at the end that I sort of phased out of the dream with flashing black and white light, and that to me said everything. One of the mp3s is subliminal messages. Maybe the combination is working.

I'm not awesome like whiterain and having them in the beginning of the night though. lol

nah its one lucky shot in years of trying really mate. as your eyes flicker in rem, perhaps the flashing lights just replicate that effect

Originally Posted by mcwillis

Dunno, Ive always liked gadgets. I made my first lucid dream machine in 1986. Just grabs my attention, that's why I'm here. I don't expect this to work but one of Gysin's friends played around with this for years and his results were displayed in a journal in the 60's I think. Im going to get some veroboard and put a simple oscillating timer on it with a couple of white LED's. I'll have a switch for frquencies from 8 to 13 Hz and a dimmer for the LED's to get the right brightness. Then I'll stick the board in the pouch that is on my lucid dreaming mask that is in my drawer. Looks like it's going to get some use after all !!!

jeez, man, you made one? How did you make it? Just wondering...

Took a stab at this myself...



With the lights out, expanded to full view, and with the Isochronic Tones aiding, my friend said he started seeing dream images in just the brief time of this video. I'd like to create something that ramps down from 13Hz down to 4Hz, and slowly back up to 7Hz. But for now, this is a Theta rhythm. Oh, and yeah, if you suffer from epilepsy, don't watch this. The research I've done says 1 out of 10,000 may suffer a seizure. ::shrugg:: To be used with caution.

~oneironeer

I find it slightly odd that oneironauts seem to find more advanced methods in reverse-engineering old and forgotten research and ancient philosophies then they do with developing new techniques.
And I'm definitely following this thread.

Hopefully I can get some help from some guys I know online to let me know why I felt pain in both sides of the rear of my brain. I am hesitant to use my dream machine again until I feel that it is safe for me to do so.

Originally Posted by Cethulsus

jeez, man, you made one? How did you make it? Just wondering...

Basically it is a small electronic circuit that makes two light emitting diodes flash 10 times every second (like the power lights on your pc or laptop but larger and emitting white light)

Took a couple of hours to solder all the components onto a circuit board and presto I had made myself a dream machine !

I am hesitant to use my dream machine again until I feel that it is safe for me to do so.

I'm thinking that saying "take one for the team" wouldn't have much effect on you.

Originally Posted by Blacklight

I'm thinking that saying "take one for the team" wouldn't have much effect on you.

My first experiment did go well. A lot of unusual visual phenomena. But the pain was localised and concerned me. I did report that there weren't any after side effects.

Alright, I'll do it, let me know the cost...

I am very hesitant to use this anymore because my eyes felt super trippy. At least I have a strobe light now

I tried the online version last night and started seeing some strange things. I don't think my monitor is bright enough, so I'm hitting the workbench tonight to exercise the soldering iron.

mcwillis: I'm assuming the LEDs are set to flash simultaneously, not alternating. Can you confirm?

Indeed, simultaneously.

you having any further luck with this mcwillis

Holy crap, I turned that thing on for like a second in a well lit room and thought I was going to have a seizure...(I don't have a history of epileptic seizures)

Originally Posted by Rybread34

Holy crap, I turned that thing on for like a second in a well lit room and thought I was going to have a seizure...(I don't have a history of epileptic seizures)

lol

Just did a quick search on my Uni database of journals and found an article on the history of flicker induced hallucinations. I don't have time right now but if anybody's interested I'm willing to summarise and post on here in the morning.

I foresee interesting results from the bench prototype. Looking at the LEDs through closed eyelids yields some very interesting visuals, and they vary greatly with the frequency and pulse length applied.



I'm cheating a little by using my $10 trainer box with adjustable oscillator. I intend to mount the LEDs into this old pair of comfy, but scratched sunglasses. If I like it, I'll build a small box with a 555 and the support components to drive the glasses.

thats a pretty cool looking setup actually.. id love to hear how some of these work out

The waiting is killing me.

OK, finally got it all together and the glue has dried.



The 4-12Hz range seems to produce the most interesting visuals with a 50% pulse width. Now, all I need is a timer and we'll see what it does to a dream!