Applying Operant Conditioning to Lucid Dreaming

**Immaterium** · 12-05-2011 12:44 AM

Hi everyone, haven't posted in a LONG time, but i'll try to keep this short.

Basically, I got to thinking the other day, whether anyone here has tried using operant conditioning -specifically positive reinforcement- to increase how often they have lucid dreams.

For those of you who haven't heard of operant conditioning, it's basically where an action is rewarded or discouraged in order to make the action happen more or less often. this is reinforcement.

Example: Every time your dog behaves well, you give it a treat. after a while, the dog will start to behave well more and more in order to get the treat - that's the theory.

There are a few different psychologists who looked into this type of behaviour, with B.F Skinner being the most noteworthy. the theory has been shown to work on infants but i'm not aware of a study involving adults.

So why not try to incorporate this into lucid dreaming?

Example: you wake up after having a lucid dream, and you reward yourself with... your favourite chocolate. your favourite drink, anything you enjoy. The point is to get your brain to associate the reward with lucid dreaming. this happens subconsciously of course, and I'm not sure how effective this would be on adults rather than infants, but i'd like to hear your thoughts.

Anyone ever tried something like this? I'd love to hear someone chime in with their results. Occaisionally waking up to a ferrero roche can't do much harm

tell me what you think!

**sean95** · 12-05-2011 08:59 AM

IMO the lucid dream is enough of a reward in itself - I wouldn't really care about chocolate or something like that after having an LD. That's just my opinion though, I don't know much about psychology to know if it would work or not.

**Qwer** · 12-05-2011 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by 1234567

IMO the lucid dream is enough of a reward in itself - I wouldn't really care about chocolate or something like that after having an LD. That's just my opinion though, I don't know much about psychology to know if it would work or not.

Exactly what I was thinking

**ShadowOfSelf** · 12-05-2011 11:44 AM

I've also thought about this, I read it on some site before - PILD - Punishment induced lucid dream.. It said something like take a cold shower or skip breakfast if you dont have a lucid, which seems like it could work.. though i dont want a cold shower or to skip my breakfast..

**Immaterium** · 12-05-2011 12:59 PM

Hey, thanks for the input guys.

The Punishment method would work, but judging from Skinner's work, I think it might be more trouble than it's worth. I mean, if you have... say, 1 LD a week on average, then the punishment method might not be that effective, because your subconscious isn't having LDs often enough to recognise that the lucid dream is what negates the punishment.

I really do think that the Reward style might work though, it doesn't carry other negative effects highlighted in previous studies.

that might just be me though. I can't stand cold water in the shower

.. But I am up for a treat every time i successfully become lucid

hmm.. Reward Induced Lucid Dream? might catch on lol..

**ShadowOfSelf** · 12-05-2011 02:19 PM

Its worth a try.. any ideas for a reward/punishment?

**MissLucy** · 12-05-2011 03:43 PM

Rewards always work better than punishment, this has been proven in pet training. Chocolate would be good because it causes the brain to release Dopamine - the pleasure hormone - therefor making you feel better. We want a positive association with LDs, right? Otherwise you might end up feeling stressed before bed (because you might not LD and therefor get punished), and fear is not what we're looking for, right? With rewards, you'll go to bed thinking "Yay, if I dream Lucid tonight, I'll get a yummy!"

..of course, this is just my personal opinion.

**ShadowOfSelf** · 12-05-2011 04:17 PM

Good input Lucy I didnt think about that, If I dont get lucid tonight I now have an excuse to go get an advent calender :p

**Immaterium** · 12-05-2011 07:09 PM

I think chocolate is definitely our best bet, although I'm trying to think of an alternative.

But expanding on the concept of using something that produces large amounts of dopamine, I think a personal guilty pleasure could work even better. I'm not saying people should treat themselves in the morning to $100 worth of opiates, but a so-called 'guilty pleasure' would garner a better reaction than a normal dopamine increase, for example rather than a box of standard chocolates, if you have a particular brand that you really love but rarely get, (i'm thinking thornton's luxury chocolates or something) that would provide a bigger incentive than a box of milk duds.

just an idea

**MissLucy** · 12-05-2011 08:19 PM

Hmm.. yeah that would work, treating yourself to something you rarely treat yourself to is a great incentive

**Linkzelda** · 12-05-2011 11:12 PM

I kind of used a welfare version of the operant conditioning, I said that if I have a lucid dream, I'll pleasure myself sexually, but yeah....NOPE.

But I like this idea though, but I'm worried that it might eventually make a lucid dream "withdrawal" if one relies on it too much, and has a dry spell for a week or more.

**Immaterium** · 12-05-2011 11:46 PM

Link, you need not worry about "withdrawal" or anything of the sort, no behavioural study has shown anything like it happening. after the positive behaviour has been introduced, you remove the treat and the behaviour remains. so no worries there

I'm definitely interested in seeing the results. once i begin to use the positive reinforcement i'll keep track of the frequency of LDs over a long period of time and then we'll be able to see whether the reinforcement has actually increased how often LDs occur.

Of course, anyone doing the same may see different results.

If anyone does keep track of their results, feel free to let us all know!