OPEN BETA - Open beta TWOTLD - Day 2

**cvdmehden** · 04-06-2014 02:27 PM

This is a book for all levels. For those that have mastered examining reality, keep that in mind, but still play!

Chapter 2 - Super Reality Checks

“Do not be misled by what you see around you... You live in a world which is a playground full of illusion.” – Shirdi Sai Baba

Reality checks are a curious thing. While being one of the most practiced tools of the lucid dreamer, they may be one of the least effective and most misunderstood. Your experience of a reality check as a beginning lucid dreamer will be much the same as your experience of a reality check years later as a more advanced lucid dreamer. In this light, reality checking really isn’t a skill you develop, it’s more of a stepping stone to a skill which you hope to acquire.

At some point, many of the more advanced lucid dreamers acquire the skill that reality checks strive to teach. Then they toss them aside, seeing them as no longer useful. Those dreamers that never quite acquire this mysterious skill also toss reality checks aside, seeing that they had no effect on their quest for lucidity. Either way, reality checks are ultimately tossed aside. It’s not that the reality check is a bad tool, it’s just a bit flawed. So let’s take a look at this old trick and see if we can figure out where it went wrong.

Reality checks are tests performed while awake to establish that one is, in fact, awake. A successful reality check is usually followed by a mnemonic reminder to perform a reality check that night in the dream. By getting into the habit of performing reality checks throughout the day, the likelihood of performing one during a dream is increased. And of course, when a reality check is performed in the dream, things don’t behave as they should and the dreamer realizes she is dreaming and can become lucid on the spot.

Right away, there are many flaws in this system. We usually don’t point out the flaws because there’s nothing we can do about them. How else are we going to wake up in our dreams? We want something we can do right here, right now, with minimal effort that will skyrocket our likelihood of becoming lucid tonight. Other than vague self-hypnotic affirmations right before bed, or waking up and going back to sleep all night, there just aren’t that many tools available, so we keep coming back to this malformed contrivance, and we keep having minimal, unpredictable moments of success with it.

In many ways, performing reality checks is a lot like buying lottery tickets. If I do a reality check today, I might just win the lucid dreaming lottery tonight. And of course, so we reason, if I do 100 reality checks today, I’ll be 100 times more likely to win that prize. If we applied this same logic to winning the Power Millions, we would find ourselves rapidly going broke.

But what is it that causes this tool to (sometimes) work? Often, the very intent of performing a reality check in a dream has been enough to cause me to become lucid. Simply remembering to test the dream, to wonder if I could be dreaming, will trigger lucidity before having even performed the test. Conversely, I have performed reality checks in dreams that should have caused me to wake up, but were instead rationalized away.

“Oh, gravity is just off today.”

“There’s probably a wiring problem with that light switch.”

“I can only sort of fly. If I were dreaming, I could fly a lot better.”

If we consider these scenarios the outliers of reality checking, they may shed some light on what is really going on. What was the difference that caused the tests to fail on one end, and not even be necessary on the other? To really understand that difference, we must put ourselves into the experience and look at it from the inside. Consider then the failed reality check…

You’re going along in the dream, almost seemingly in 3rd person. There is no control, you’re simply acting out a story. Some part of your consciousness is the helpless witness of everything that takes place. There is no spark of self-awareness in that consciousness, it merely follows the script of the dream. The dream self is on automatic. As part of the story, as part of whatever life or routine you’re in, it becomes time to perform a reality check. The feel of the reality check is no different than any other event in the dream. You go to perform a reality check like you would go to pick up a glass or get in the car. It’s just an automatic event. As such, there’s no true break in consciousness. There’s no shift. The reality check may indicate you’re dreaming, but it is explained away because deep down, there is no part of you that is truly questioning whether or not this is a dream. You are simply going through motions.

Going through the motions of a reality check is useless without some crucial bit of consciousness. Without a sudden halting of whatever mode of consciousness you’re in, followed by a sincere questioning of the world, the reality check and any number of bizarre circumstances which may be present can all be explained away. The reality check is not supposed to be an automatic thing, it is supposed to be a waking up. Consider now the scenario in which the mere thought of performing the test is enough to become lucid…

You’re going along in the dream, there is some random train of thoughts going through your mind. The idea suddenly occurs to you to perform a reality check. Now this thought didn’t feel like the thoughts you’d been thinking moments ago. As you thought it, you felt something happen. Like pulling your head out of the sand, you suddenly remembered yourself, you stepped back from the automatic flow of the dream and looked around. You regained something when you decided to do a reality check. Some nebulous aspect of consciousness returned to you. What was a moment before gone, lost, or scattered throughout the dream came flooding back into your being. Simply remembering to do the test to wake up was enough to wake you up. You realize it’s all a dream and leap into the air to fly.

The real purpose of the reality check is to get you to question, in hopes of leading you somewhere else. But to start, you must first seriously consider the question, “Am I awake?” This is a curious question to consider because the very act of asking it can cause one to awaken. Go ahead and try it now. Feel what it feels like to ask. Don’t just ask the question in your head as an interesting idea, but rather step into the world of the question. Genuinely consider. What are you feeling? Are you feeling awake? As you ask the question, your level of ‘awakeness’ will rise… and then immediately fall back when the question completes. Unless you hold on to it. Somewhere in that rise and fall of awakeness lies the key. In that moment of questioning, if you delve in, if you explore that second long enough, it pulls you out. You learn how to pull your head out of the sand. You experience a complete physical, mental, and emotional release from whatever “dream” you were caught up in. For a brief moment, you simply See. This is the skill the advanced lucid dreamers find, and once found, reality checks no longer become necessary. We want to learn to go straight there, and then find out what lies beyond.

We’ve established that the reality check is not intended to be a mental phenomenon. In order to work, it must be an experiential thing. With that in mind, let us see if there are more flaws in the way these tests are currently performed. PD Ouspensky is known to have claimed that it is impossible for one to remember their name in a dream. A large percentage of the population will accept this statement without question, and they will find that it is indeed impossible to remember their name in a dream. Another percentage of the population will meet this statement with disbelief. And if a few of them happen to be talented lucid dreamers, they will then set out to test this bold statement. Luckily for us, Dr. Stephen LaBerge, the godfather of lucid dreaming, is one such dreamer. He didn’t believe the statement and was able to disprove it in the dream world. He believed he could remember his name, and he did.

Along the same lines, in Wagoner’s book he talks about the influence of expectations on dreaming tools. Before Laberge tied the expectation of spinning to creating a new dream scene, Wagoner spun and experienced the appearance of balls of light. What does this have to do with reality checks? Consider one of the most common reality checks: the book test. In the book test, the idea is that text is unstable in a lucid dream. If you pick up a book or newspaper and read it, turn away, then read it again, the text will have changed, thus alerting you to the fact that you’re dreaming. This has long been a bedrock of “what’s so” in the world of lucid dreaming. However, Wagoner reports that text is relatively stable in his dreams. Like with spinning, it would seem he never bought into this part of lucid dreaming “reality.”

Talented dreamers know the power of intent and expectation in the dream. If you expect text to stay the same, it’s going to stay the same. If you expect it to change or if you expect that you’ll be unable to remember your name, you’ll experience just that. So what happens if we set out with intent to break apart other common reality checks? After reading Wagoner’s book, I set out to do just that with the light switch test in November 2013.

I am at some big university or institute. It's not the traditional kind. It's more like a learning environment. Sarah and I have a bottle of alcohol that reminds me of olive oil. We're drinking it and having a great time going through the bottle. There are a few people with us, and they're giving us sideways looks because we’re not supposed to be drinking. We're very aware of them, but are having an awesome time, so we continue. I start to hand her the bottle when I realize I’m dreaming. I immediately want to fly and consider taking her flying but luckily I remember my task. I leave the courtyard we’re in and start looking for a light switch. She follows me, but I don’t have time to explain what I’m doing. I go into a classroom and find one. I gather my intent and focus my will. “When I flip this switch, it will get brighter.” I flip the switch and the lights immediately come on.

Browsing popular lucid dreaming forums, we find that all reality checks can be unreliable. Most people recommend doing a number of tests in case one or more fail to trigger lucidity in the dream. Anything from looking at your hands to jumping up and down can all trigger lucidity, or keep you convinced that you’re not dreaming. So we return again to that crucial component, we must deeply experience the question, “Am I awake?” while performing a reality check. There is something about the state of consciousness that the question induces which causes us to truly wake up in the dream. But what exactly is that state of consciousness and where does it lead?

Exercise 2: Super reality checks

Select a wide variety of reality checks and perform them. For example, turn a light on and off. Sometimes in a dream, if it fails to perform, you know you’re dreaming. In this case, if it behaves properly, realize that you may be dreaming and that the light is just following your expectations. You may be dreaming this light and it is doing exactly what you’ve set it up to do. Be amazed at how seamless the dream reality is. Be amazed at your talent in creating this dream and realize that the light test can’t tell you whether or not you’re dreaming.

Select another test. For example, the gravity test. Jump up and down. Sometimes in a dream, gravity doesn’t behave as expected. In this case, if it behaves properly, realize that you may be dreaming this gravity and that gravity is just following your expectations. You may be dreaming this whole thing and it is doing exactly what you’ve set it up to do. Be amazed at how seamless the dream reality is. Be amazed at your talent in creating this dream and realize that the gravity test can’t tell you whether or not you’re dreaming.

Continue like this through every reality check you can think of. Once all tests are exhausted, realize there is absolutely no test you can perform that can tell you whether or not you’re dreaming. You truly do not know. Explore the world while holding on to this state of mind.

Examples of reality checks: changing text, changing clocks, gravity, non-functional light switches, hand through matter, breathing through a plugged nose, continuity of memory throughout the day, the non-existence of bizarre dreamsigns (flying pink elephants), etc.

Because it’s a state of consciousness (a pausing, considering, and not knowing) that causes a reality check to succeed, we want to be accustomed to that state of consciousness. We want it to become second nature. In a dream, a brief moment of that consciousness will cause us to awaken. With normal reality checks, we may not get to the desired state of consciousness each time, so it’s no surprise that we don’t always carry it over into the dream world. If, on the other hand, we can induce that state of consciousness and hold on to it for extended periods, it has the cumulative effect of doing hundreds of normal reality checks at once.

But how far can this one little exercise take us? Interesting things begin to happen when you complete this exercise and continue in the state of not knowing for 20-30 minutes. Give it a try, if you start to lose the super reality check state of consciousness, do another reality check and return to not knowing.

**cvdmehden** · 04-06-2014 02:29 PM

For those just joining us, start here...

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...d-dreamer.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-0-a.html

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-1-a.html

**FryingMan** · 04-06-2014 05:46 PM

I think most here would not define an RC as something you do while awake. It is a test that you perform to (help to) determine your state.

I agree generally with the gist of this chapter, though: 1) it's all about (self) awareness; 2) never assume you're awake; 3) it's the awareness that gets you lucid, not the RC.

However, RCs have their good points:1) they're fast to do, and if you're lucky, there's one for you that always works. Nose plug has never failed for me, and has saved a few LDs, and brought me more into the dream in a few. But mostly the awareness preceeds the RC, yes.

**Sageous** · 04-06-2014 05:52 PM

Though FryingMan hit the key points, I feel a need to make a little noise here, Cvdmehden:

What is new here, much less super? If anything, you've left quite a bit out, including the value of doing RC's during the day not so much in the hopes that you'll do one by habit during a dream, but because the thoughtful moment of a sincere state test (aka RC; odd that you didn't mention the original term) puts your mind in "the right place" and helps build self-awareness and expectation. Is the "super" addition to your RC simply being amazed at your dreaming mind's ability to produce a "reality" based on your expectations? Wouldn't this have a tendency to have a nascently self-aware You starting to bow to the power of the dream, confirm its reality, and thus erase that bit of self-awareness? Also, isn't it just as easy to dream that you are being amazed (and that your self-awareness is being sparked, for that matter) as it is to dream your traditional RC is working? Perhaps you should spend more time explaining why this method sidesteps that obstacle.

Another thing is that it might have been nice to see you spend more time on memory, since that is the thing RC's really spark. Because you are likely already slightly self-aware if you remember to do a RC, when you do a RC and you see that what you are doing is not right, it is the memory of what is right that is sparked, and from that the memory that this is not the place you were a few minutes ago (bed) surfaces, and from that you are able to gather self-awareness and real understanding that this is a dream. Memory access is a key effect of a successful RC; leaving that detail out seems questionable.

Finally, keep in mind that the question that you ought to be asking in a state test is "Is this a dream?" and not "Is this reality?" There is an important difference between these two statements, and real reasons for choosing the former. The primary reason for asking if this is a dream (and not is this real) during the dream is frankly obvious: during a NLD,everything in a dream is "real." That is the very nature of dreaming. So, if you ask if this is real and you are not lucid, the "reality" of the dream will merely confirm that it is indeed real, and the state test will fail. During the day, when you know damn well that everything is real, asking such a question (is this real?) becomes a little silly, and testing becomes rote and thoughtless. There are other reasons for not asking if it is real, mostly psychological (i.e., people with reality-recognition problems in the first place should not be asking such a question), but no need to go into them here.

The function of RC's is well established and quite helpful to LD'ing, Cvdmehden, even if you never perform one in a dream. I think it may have been wise to mention this somehow, so as not to discredit the whole chapter before your reader even gets to the super part.

For what it's worth, I have done your listed exercise many times, in a strikingly similar manner, and found that truly not knowing that this is a dream only inhibited my lucidity rather than reinforcing it. I doubt that was helpful to you, but it is the case.

Full disclosure moment: I have had many thousands of LD's, and to the best of my memory I have never, ever, become lucid by performing a RC during a dream. And yet I still practice them regularly and thoughtfully during waking life, because for me I think they are far more valuable as tools for developing self-awareness than handy tricks for becoming lucid.

tl;dr: there is nothing new here, Cvdmehden, and I fear the "super" part of your version of RC's (if I understood it correctly) is not terribly super, and might suffer the same expectation-based fate as traditional RC's. Also, more mention of the value of practicing state tests during waking-life might have been helpful (as would maybe a paragraph explaining that RC's are state tests, and why).

I hope I'm not coming off as too much of a prick here, Cvdmehden; it's just that RC'ing has remained a key technique for building your LD'ing fundamentals for very good reasons, and it would have been nice if you explored that fact a bit, and explained better how your super version exceeds, or even really differs from, the nature of traditional RC'ing. This stuff is important to me, so I'm going to make noise. If you want me to shut up, please PM me and admonish away!

**Fuzzman** · 04-06-2014 06:24 PM

I like this and I think the key difference he is pointing out is not to abolish RCs but to use them in a different frame of mind. Our expectations play a huge role in our dreams and what we think will happen usually will. For a new person getting into lucid dreaming all they're told is to do these practices and it'll make you lucid sometimes. But if they build a habit and get used to expecting certain outcomes or just blindly go about it then it's likely not to work in the dream, or they won't be aware and just dismiss it and go on. Cvdmehden seems to be saying that you should do reality checks but don't take the result as a confirmation. Plug your nose but then think, "well in a dream this could be possible too so that doesn't prove anything to me so I guess I should be aware anyway in case I am dreaming" and then maintain that state for a while afterward.

This might not be new to many of us since we talk about LDing all the time and many have come to this conclusion already, but keep in mind this is for a book that may explain it in a better way to newer people wanting to really learn the fundamentals of lucid dreaming rather than just learn the tricks but don't actually include the awareness that comes with reality checking. I think it hits on a lot of good key points, but definitely feel like the substance is lacking and you could probably embellish on some of the ideas better. I'm not a writer though so I can't help much there, but I'm sure others here will have more to input.

**StephL** · 04-06-2014 07:37 PM

You said you have looked into ETWOLD and surely other things as well - and you go ahead and promise nothing short of a revolution - way beyond anything already in practice round here and elsewhere.
After this massive build-up and letting people wait and hope for the next thing - going day by day - you forced yourself in a situation, where it is crucial, that these first days actually contain something - at least something new - at least a new angle at something old..
And then this:

Once all tests are exhausted, realize there is absolutely no test you can perform that can tell you whether or not you’re dreaming. You truly do not know. Explore the world while holding on to this state of mind.

Because it’s a state of consciousness (a pausing, considering, and not knowing) that causes a reality check to succeed, we want to be accustomed to that state of consciousness.

I know all that.
And yes - I have consciously endeavoured to experience it too - as we all have - or almost all.
If I would just by habit do an RC in a dream - the dream is perfectly capable of producing the result, it would produce in reality.
It's about asking in the first place.
I seriously won't do RCs for half an hour in order to come to a realization, that I have already.
This is the second letdown in my eyes - you better come up with anything real soon, which remotely justifies your continued hyperbole and talk of secret keys, which trigger extraordinary results!
Interest will wane soon.

What you have presented up to now is on here a thousand times over and in more detail and with further insights attached.

My argument for having faith was, that you can't possibly expect to validate your stuff through us, if you don't actually have something.
But now I am pretty sure, that you are not aware, that you were bound to produce huge disappointment with your first two days - and now I suspect that goes for the whole thing.

I will wait and see, with what you'll follow up.
It's not going to be too late to go back into it after all - maybe apologize for the sharp tone - maybe suggest modifications - should the big surprise eventually manifest..
You are actively bringing my tone upon yourself, though, at the moment.

Off to try some self-hypnosis - looks the better investment, sorry to say.

**Sensei** · 04-06-2014 07:48 PM

I must agree with the others, but I will wait till the end to post my conclusions. I am hoping that you are going to "karate kid" the crap out of us.

**AstralMango** · 04-06-2014 08:12 PM

This day's exercise sounds like the same thing I, and other LDers, do: reality checks. So I'll just wait until tomorrow to see if you have anything new and exciting.

**Nailler** · 04-06-2014 09:56 PM

Hi cvdmehden,

Firstly, I hope you truly are looking for feedback and not just pats on the back. No doubt you do deserve pats on the back for the work that went into this, but I see lots of problems here.

That said, I'll start with an editorial comment.

You have to decide who your proper audience is for the book. In the first chapter, you do give lip service to the idea that newbies may try to read the book, but do you really think any newbie reading this chapter would be able to follow your theory?

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Reality checks are tests performed while awake to establish that one is, in fact, awake.

The more workable approach for me has been to use reality checks to confirm that I'm in a dream... although that confirmation fails more often than not, and it turns out I'm not in a dream, coming at it from that angle... looking to prove I'm dreaming... requires far more inspection of my world than simply asking "am I awake."

Other than vague self-hypnotic affirmations right before bed...

Setting prospective memory and self-hypnosis are apples and oranges. The idea of setting prospective memory was THE breakthrough that led to LaBerge being able to eventually lucid dream almost at will.

...or waking up and going back to sleep all night.

Because sleep cycles are what they are, WBTB is, and always will be, a valuable approach to increasing the odds for success in our lucid dreaming efforts. In my opinion, your tendency to diss proven and workable tools will lessen your credibility in the eyes of experienced lucid dreamers.

But what is it that causes this tool to (sometimes) work?

I suspect you may have missed the boat entirely on how RCs work. What's missing in the dream state is MEMORY. The practice of doing regular Reality checks leads at times to the introduction of a little standard memory function to the dream state, which can blossom into full awareness. It's MEMORY that sparks the awareness which triggers lucidity. Once that awareness is in place, RCs can help solidify the reality that we're in a dream, but for the most part the RC comes AFTER the fact of becoming lucid, rather than before.

“Oh, gravity is just off today.”

“There’s probably a wiring problem with that light switch.”

“I can only sort of fly. If I were dreaming, I could fly a lot better.”

If we consider these scenarios the outliers of reality checking...

But they are not outliers. In fact this is the default state of the dream world. It appears that you're trying to force an unworkable theory to work, namely your idea great truths are to be found in the outliers, when it doesn't want to.

Talented dreamers know the power of intent and expectation in the dream.

My prediction... If in the end your approach leads to improved expectations and prospective memory, there may be some limited workability here, but not because there's been a true technical breakthrough.

In any case, thanks for sparking a great discussion.

Niall

**Rodrodrod** · 04-06-2014 10:36 PM

cvdmehden you were right indeed, I did like this next one. This makes sense to me and my experiences at least. It clearly states that RC's in themselves don't work but rather the state of consciousness that they may bring is the cause for lucidity, and by performing various RC in conjuction with each other the overall state is easier to achieve and may be prolonged. This builds up on the previous chapter/exercise emphasising how the waking world should be thought of as being a dream as for me both of these exercises bring the state of being present and causes a lucidity moment where the person is ultimately aware of themselves performing those exercises, which is just like someone suddenly becoming lucid inside a dream.

Being amazed by successful outcomes of RC's may increase a dreamer's expectation in dreams and hopefully prevent them from falling into limiting beliefs that this or that may not be possible inside a dream.

I just know that if I didn't know anything about RC's, I'd rather perform this than RC's the way I originally learned of them.

**cvdmehden** · 04-06-2014 10:40 PM

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone! I started out the book exploring this idea of turning everything on its head. Can we reexamine everything we hold to be sacred and true, genuinely look at it from new perspectives (meaning a willing if temporary stepping out of our own perspectives), and see what shakes out in the end? This is a risky thing to do, because it's asking you to leave the place you're familiar with and explore. The book is designed as a series of sequential exercises, each one building off the previous. We're only on #2, and there's a long ways to go. I haven't posted the whole book all at once because I want people to actually explore the exercises (even if some of them sound similar to one's you've already explored) and report back on their experiences. What was your experience during the exercise? Did you actually do it the way it was written, or did you do something else? Did you notice any effect on your dream quality the next night? Some of these are beginning exercises because they're fundamental to the later ones.

A lot of people seem to be wanting the whole book summed up in the first few paragraphs, so they can say whether they agree or disagree, but that's simply not how it's designed. We're exploring here. Many advanced dreamers will have already had similar explorations, which is understandable, however, we've got to get everyone caught up. If you want to play, play. If you don't, don't. But if you do play, please share your actual experiences of doing the exercises. That's what (for me) the beta is all about.

(and some of you that aren't playing but still commenting - I'm finding that useful too, so keep it up)

**Nailler** · 04-06-2014 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Can we reexamine everything we hold to be sacred and true, genuinely look at it from new perspectives

I don't think the problem some of us are having with the book is because we're unwilling to reexamine what we believe to be true. It's more a case of finding factual errors with your premise, and seeing in your work a tendency to present opinions as facts.

Of course, nothing succeeds like success, but I honestly don't have high hopes for what is yet to come.

**Nailler** · 04-06-2014 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

(and some of you that aren't playing but still commenting - I'm finding that useful too, so keep it up)

Seeing as I've been rather critical so far, I think it's only fair to give your exercises an honest try and see what happens, so I'll do that.

**Sageous** · 04-07-2014 12:26 AM

I for one don't hold anything sacred, Cvdmehden, and am always looking for something new; some new perspective that refocuses my own. Indeed, I am only here in the hopes that you do present something new. And valid. In my opinion, nothing you've presented has even slightly twisted known methods or perspectives yet, much less stood anything on its head. But I'm patient, curious, and still interested. I also agree with Nailler when he says our general problem isn't with your concepts, but your curious disregard for facts, and apparant disinterest in considering the things we are telling you (i.e., dismissing our advice and opinions as simple doctrinal adhesion).

Also, I will definitely participate, should an exercise that I haven't already done numerous times comes up.

**Sensei** · 04-07-2014 12:36 AM

Hmmm... With the way that LDing is set up, and the naturals and the people that LD like crazy (hukif, Oreo etc), it kind of shows that there has to be something that they are getting that we are not, and it must be something close to what we are doing, but not quite it.

**cvdmehden** · 04-07-2014 06:01 PM

Now up...

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...r-day-3-a.html

**FryingMan** · 04-07-2014 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sensei

Hmmm... With the way that LDing is set up, and the naturals and the people that LD like crazy (hukif, Oreo etc), it kind of shows that there has to be something that they are getting that we are not, and it must be something close to what we are doing, but not quite it.

There could be so many other factors that make them so successful, for example:

+ they're naturally light, near-consciousness sleepers that can stay the entire night in that "late morning" near-waking state
+ they have naturally very active neurotransmitters (or a deficit of cholinesterase, thus like being on a permanent galantamine "high") and easier access to memory in the dream state.

There's not much one can do if one lacks those other than supplements, and do tons of WBTBs

. And unbending will and motivation perhaps

.

And maybe the reason the "permanently aware" naturals (from necessity due to childhood nightmares) who always need to evaluate if they're in a safe place are that way because their nightmares were SO REAL and terrifying to them precisely because of this brain chemistry and naturally aware light sleeping.

I'm of course hoping that getting at least really really close to the outliers is a possible thing for us mere mortals (and aging ones at that).

**Sensei** · 04-07-2014 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by FryingMan

There could be so many other factors that make them so successful, for example:

+ they're naturally light, near-consciousness sleepers that can stay the entire night in that "late morning" near-waking state
+ they have naturally very active neurotransmitters (or a deficit of cholinesterase, thus like being on a permanent galantamine "high") and easier access to memory in the dream state.

There's not much one can do if one lacks those other than supplements, and do tons of WBTBs

. And unbending will and motivation perhaps

.

And maybe the reason the "permanently aware" naturals (from necessity due to childhood nightmares) who always need to evaluate if they're in a safe place are that way because their nightmares were SO REAL and terrifying to them precisely because of this brain chemistry and naturally aware light sleeping.

I'm of course hoping that getting at least really really close to the outliers is a possible thing for us mere mortals (and aging ones at that).

I doubt that they are "super humans"

My guess is that they are ones that believed that there was no difference between them and those that LD all night every night, and did not fear flying close to the sun.

**FryingMan** · 04-08-2014 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sensei

I doubt that they are "super humans"

My guess is that they are ones that believed that there was no difference between them and those that LD all night every night, and did not fear flying close to the sun.

Give me my 10,000,000,000 SPF and I'll be right there with them!

**crypticcello** · 04-09-2014 08:37 AM

Hello cvdmehden! First of all, let me say i am very glad that you are writing about some of the less discussed yet very important aspects of lucid dreaming. I was actually taken by surprise when I read about your "mountaintop" experiences. Recently I have been feeling detached because nobody I have spoken with seems to be able to relate with my own experiences. There have been fleeting moments throughout my life when I caught a glimpse of raw, unfiltered reality, making ordinary objects seem like holy visages. These moments usually occur right after some sort of spiritual practice, as in AP or LD, and interestingly do not seem to effect unnatural objects. Trees, flowers, plants of all varieties, mountains, the sky - these all seem to have the potential to cause said experiences. Either way, I am very eager to learn what more you have to offer on the subject

As for my results with the Super Reality Check, they were quite profound. Not only have I never considered that I do not know if I am truly awake, but this exercise also lent something to me that I have been missing. I performed the check first while sitting, then continued while walking to the kitchen. As I returned to my room, I lastly focused on the feeling of my feet contacting the ground as I walked, and I quickly felt a sense of expansion and clarity. I have tried many different techniques for general mindfulness and living in the moment, but none that I have tried yielded such a powerful response so quickly.

I am very interested in what is to come in the following chapters, and I will stick around to let you know my results

Thank you for posting your book here for us to read!

**cvdmehden** · 04-09-2014 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by crypticcello

Hello cvdmehden! First of all, let me say i am very glad that you are writing about some of the less discussed yet very important aspects of lucid dreaming. I was actually taken by surprise when I read about your "mountaintop" experiences. Recently I have been feeling detached because nobody I have spoken with seems to be able to relate with my own experiences. There have been fleeting moments throughout my life when I caught a glimpse of raw, unfiltered reality, making ordinary objects seem like holy visages. These moments usually occur right after some sort of spiritual practice, as in AP or LD, and interestingly do not seem to effect unnatural objects. Trees, flowers, plants of all varieties, mountains, the sky - these all seem to have the potential to cause said experiences. Either way, I am very eager to learn what more you have to offer on the subject

As for my results with the Super Reality Check, they were quite profound. Not only have I never considered that I do not know if I am truly awake, but this exercise also lent something to me that I have been missing. I performed the check first while sitting, then continued while walking to the kitchen. As I returned to my room, I lastly focused on the feeling of my feet contacting the ground as I walked, and I quickly felt a sense of expansion and clarity. I have tried many different techniques for general mindfulness and living in the moment, but none that I have tried yielded such a powerful response so quickly.

I am very interested in what is to come in the following chapters, and I will stick around to let you know my results

Thank you for posting your book here for us to read!

Glad to hear it was a good experience! What kind of spiritual practices have you done, if you don't mind sharing? I'm just wondering if any of them helped facilitate the experience here. We get into something similar to your ground experience later in the book, also

**crypticcello** · 04-10-2014 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by cvdmehden

Glad to hear it was a good experience! What kind of spiritual practices have you done, if you don't mind sharing? I'm just wondering if any of them helped facilitate the experience here. We get into something similar to your ground experience later in the book, also

Recently I have practiced mostly third eye and clear mind meditation, also a lot of edge-of-sleep practices such as visualizing into a dream state and astral projection. I always feel energized after any of these practices, and they have at times taken me to new levels of perception and thought. I have also learned to view the world as an extension of myself, which is a valuable tool for astral projection as well as a decent mindfulness exercise. I've had similar experiences to the super reality check before, mainly after attempting an AP

**StephL** · 04-10-2014 04:08 PM

Check on the super-checks.
That extended period part of the affair might make a difference - so I lengthily "convinced myself", that an LD isn't in any way inferior to reality - I can LD it, that the RCs indicate reality, too.

**FryingMan** · 04-10-2014 06:50 PM

1) Here's a thought: why in the world would I want to convince myself that RCs don't work in lucid dreams? Nose pinch works perfectly for me, 100% every single time, from lowest to highest levels of lucidity. I don't want to mess with that expectation, what am I gaining by that?

2) I hope you're going to publish a schedule for your recommended re-visiting of these exercises: when should each one be done, how long, etc. Should they be done in an endless 20-day cycle? Is doing a particular one one time enough? What exactly should be the schedule?

thanks.

**cvdmehden** · 04-10-2014 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by FryingMan

1) Here's a thought: why in the world would I want to convince myself that RCs don't work in lucid dreams? Nose pinch works perfectly for me, 100% every single time, from lowest to highest levels of lucidity. I don't want to mess with that expectation, what am I gaining by that?

The point of the exercise isn't to convince yourself that RCs don't work in lucid dreams. The point of the exercise is to become familiar with a certain state of consciousness that will make your dream RCs more effective and ultimately, unnecessary. Each of the first 4 days' exercises are essentially building blocks of the day 5 skill called Dreaming. Once this skill is understood and mastered, all of the previous exercises are accomplished by using it.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

2) I hope you're going to publish a schedule for your recommended re-visiting of these exercises: when should each one be done, how long, etc. Should they be done in an endless 20-day cycle? Is doing a particular one one time enough? What exactly should be the schedule?

As far as a schedule, there is none. Everything up through day 5 is to get you to learn Dreaming. At the end of the book, or any time really, you can revisit the exercises, play with them, see how they change as your Dreaming skill changes, but that is completely up to you. As a recommendation though, I would say go through everything again at least once after you've mastered dreaming, just to see if there's a change.

When you practice Dreaming enough, the super reality check state can be summoned immediately, there's no need to actually do an RC. Reality checks become an instantaneous shifting that can be held on to for as long as you want. Dreaming then becomes the starting place for the rest of the processes in the book.