Thread: I am really doing something wrong, but what?

Originally Posted by FryingMan

Not every 10 seconds, perhaps 10 minutes. And not deep long questioning, but fairly quick awareness boosts (of course holding the awareness is good if you can). Successful LDers go through very frequent RCs, sometimes hundreds if not more of them in a day on some days. The deep long questioning is probably OK at 5-6 per day on a maintenance schedule, but you need to make a break through so you need to turn up the intensity I think for a while.

From what you're saying, you're not doing traditional LaBerge, which includes PM exercises. I continue to recommend going full on LaBerge (and not doing ADA) to get your first LD.

What you're doing now clearly doesn't work for you, so try something different for a while.

For a change, I recommend reading The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep and following at least the 4 preparatory practices, including daily meditation. Also, read DV threads on mindfulness, and perhaps some books. Ultimately to be continually mindful is to be continually self-aware, lucid in life to be lucid in dreams. Being lucid in life is its own reward, as well.

So, can you give me an example how i should do ADA?
from what i understand a quick question and a quick look around is more effective
and also 1 reality check

Originally Posted by Wolfdog

Alright, I can see the outline of your practice is very good actually. Still, if you don't mind, I would like to offer some points that could make your practice a lot more efficient and effective. First things first, the questions you ask are great as they require you to think for the answer. When searching for ways to reality check, it's best if we choose questions that don't allow for yes or no answers. These questions: "What am I doing here?, What was I doing 15 minutes ago?, How did I get here?" are spot on. The problem I see with the overall design of your practice is that it appears to take a long time to do it. Think about it, you don't really need to think for long hours in order to effectively assess reality and get you lucid. Just one of these are enough to trigger lucidity. So, what you could do is throw out all the unnecessary stuff to make your practice much more concise and practical.

Say, choose one out of any of these three questions:

• What am I doing here?
• What was I doing 15 minutes ago?
• How did I get here?

After answering your question, you could add in a reality check (whichever you prefer) to confirm whether you're dreaming or not. With this, you can cut off minutes of unnecessary hassle in your practice. With this outline, you could probably finish the thing within 30 seconds or less.

Now, I have to agree with FryingMan here in that 20 reality checks a day isn't a lot. Still, increasing the number of times you do the checks just for the sake of doing more isn't recommended either. Remember, the purpose with this is to get you more aware, to cultivate a state of mind in awareness. So, you should use the technique whenever you find yourself distracted, whenever awareness is lost. This practice will be your center point, your support for bringing back awareness to you whenever it is lost. Yes, at the beginning you may feel as if the practice is too much for you to handle. If you persist, in time you will see yourself remaining more aware of what's happening around you. Remember, the objective is to remain aware without the need of the technique. The technique is only there for use if you ever lose awareness.

This is really a variation of your own practice, refined, that could provide a more effective way to get you lucid. Should you choose to follow it, I want you to remember this valuable piece of advise:

1. Patience is decisive for acquiring success with this method, or any other method you decide to follow.
2. Action is the bedrock for reaching success, not motivation. Motivation comes in second, action is first.

wouldn't i have less chances if i do it on 30 seconds?
yeah maybe i could do more of that exercices but 30 seconds
isn't that a little time to carry to a dream?

Originally Posted by Iriba

wouldn't i have less chances if i do it on 30 seconds?
yeah maybe i could do more of that exercices but 30 seconds
isn't that a little time to carry to a dream?

Whether you take 10 seconds or 10 minutes in the practice is irrelevant for you to attain lucidity. More isn't always better. The fastest we can trigger lucidity the better. If 30 seconds is all you need then that's what you do. If a second is sufficient then that works as well. Again, remember that the technique, the method alone is not our focus here. Awareness is our focus. What we're cultivating with this practice is awareness, and that's the mindset that we're bringing into the dream. Think about the technique as just the fail-safe mechanism. What we're training for is the ability to attain/retain awareness as soon as we find ourselves in the dream. If awareness isn't there, then the fail-safe mechanism (the technique) activates, triggering a shot of awareness (the questions + reality check) that will get you lucid.

Remember, we don't want to use the technique. We're using the method for the sole purpose of not using the method to trigger lucidity.

Originally Posted by Wolfdog

Whether you take 10 seconds or 10 minutes in the practice is irrelevant for you to attain lucidity. More isn't always better. The fastest we can trigger lucidity the better. If 30 seconds is all you need then that's what you do. If a second is sufficient then that works as well. Again, remember that the technique, the method alone is not our focus here. Awareness is our focus. What we're cultivating with this practice is awareness, and that's the mindset that we're bringing into the dream. Think about the technique as just the fail-safe mechanism. What we're training for is the ability to attain/retain awareness as soon as we find ourselves in the dream. If awareness isn't there, then the fail-safe mechanism (the technique) activates, triggering a shot of awareness (the questions + reality check) that will get you lucid.

Remember, we don't want to use the technique. We're using the method for the sole purpose of not using the method to trigger lucidity.

I think i get it now, but let me ask somethings.
Should i question my reality with reality checks added (everytime between 10 minutes)
or i can reality check between 10 minutes and every 1 hour or something i can question my reality?

other thing
I'm kinda curious how your ADA works since mine is too harsh, and sometimes i can't even handle it for 10 minutes.
how much time you can handle your ADA? how does your ADA works?
I try to be aware as possible, like hearing,smelling, seeing, moving my body.
Do you just focus on 1 of your senses, or you do focus all senses at once like i do?
and do you think i should keep doing my ADA style, or should i change to someother style?

Sorry if this questions seem confusing, as my english is not that good.
Please i need everyone help

Originally Posted by Iriba

I think i get it now, but let me ask somethings.
Should i question my reality with reality checks added (everytime between 10 minutes)
or i can reality check between 10 minutes and every 1 hour or something i can question my reality?

Personally, I don't use reality checks, although questioning alone is a form of reality check in itself. Still, the problem I have with reality checks (as in your traditional nose plugs, clock checking, hand checking, etc.) is that I find them practically unnecessary for the purpose of acquiring lucidity. I understand they are to be used to confirm whether my initial thoughts of whether I'm dreaming or not are true or false. However, by questioning alone you get all the proof you need to become certain of your assumptions (that and the evidence you get from using your senses). So, there's no point in adding another unnecessary step to the practice when questioning alone is sufficient enough to trigger lucidity. Nevertheless, many find the use of reality checks beneficial to their ability to lucid dream. The way I see it, whether you chose to include a reality check or not in the overall practice won't affect in any way the effectiveness of the technique.

Now, in the case of when to apply the technique, what's important here is to consider the way the practice has been designed. The purpose is to cultivate awareness. The problem I see with spacing the technique every 10 minutes or every hour is that there's the need to try and control the whole process and make it as predictable as it can be. I also find it a lot more complicated to do it this way.

If we take a look at dreams, we'll see how unpredictable they are in nature. Most of the time we're involved in some type of plot that consumes our attention completely. We're in the moment, yet not necessarily aware of the situation. What's interesting is that the unpredictable nature of dreams is also what's predictable about it. So, we are to use that unpredictability to our advantage. Instead of questioning reality every 10 minutes or every hour, we apply the technique whenever it's we find ourselves distracted, whenever we're unaware. It doesn't matter if it took you a minute, 24 minutes, an hour or 5 to get distracted, what's important here is to note about the loss of awareness. When we notice our lack of awareness, we correct it by using the technique.

This way, we're killing two birds with one stone. In one way, we're training our mind to remain in a state of awareness, and in another way, we're becoming aware of our loss of awareness. We're anticipating the situation next time it happens as well as training our minds to immediately return to awareness as soon as we find ourselves distracted. We are anticipating unpredictability. Nor you nor I can know when we'll get distracted. It's something that just happens, and we don't care when it happens, only that it can. When it does, we will take note of it and return our focus back to awareness. This is why the practice is divided in two very important facets. Questioning alone is one part of the practice, and what happens after it is equally important.

The idea here is to remain aware for longer periods of time, to keep the number of distractions to a minimum of 0 (This is our ideal goal). If we manage to attain and retain awareness then the number of times we use the technique will decrease. Even if we were to get distracted, through practice alone we will manage to cut the time that it takes for us to notice that distraction and correct it.

Originally Posted by Iriba

other thing
I'm kinda curious how your ADA works since mine is too harsh, and sometimes i can't even handle it for 10 minutes.
how much time you can handle your ADA? how does your ADA works?
I try to be aware as possible, like hearing,smelling, seeing, moving my body.
Do you just focus on 1 of your senses, or you do focus all senses at once like i do?
and do you think i should keep doing my ADA style, or should i change to someother style?

My personal practice for training awareness lies in the basic premise I've previously explained above. I practice awareness throughout the day, then, every time I find myself unaware (and notice it), I ask myself: "Where am I?" and "How did I got here?" By answering these questions I can easily ground myself back in awareness and continue the practice, until I find myself again unaware, and I repeat the whole process again.

The thing here is to break down the practice so it becomes easier to handle, and more effective as well. Again, more isn't always better. Progress will be made faster if you can do one thing exceptionally well, than if you are doing 5 things at once, and all terribly done. We want to find the prefect challenge, one that helps us grow, not one that is too difficult for us to overcome nor one that's too easy. So, what you could do is focus on one sense out of the many that we have. That includes the senses of: sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, propioception, gravity, balance, temperature, pain, emotions, and so on and so forth. Although, if you can handle your actual form of practicing awareness then go for it.

Recently, I've been looking into mindfulness to include it in my practice, as it's something I'm particularly interested at. How you chose and what you chose to do in order to train awareness is entirely up to you.

Originally Posted by Wolfdog

Personally, I don't use reality checks, although questioning alone is a form of reality check in itself. Still, the problem I have with reality checks (as in your traditional nose plugs, clock checking, hand checking, etc.) is that I find them practically unnecessary for the purpose of acquiring lucidity. I understand they are to be used to confirm whether my initial thoughts of whether I'm dreaming or not are true or false. However, by questioning alone you get all the proof you need to become certain of your assumptions (that and the evidence you get from using your senses). So, there's no point in adding another unnecessary step to the practice when questioning alone is sufficient enough to trigger lucidity. Nevertheless, many find the use of reality checks beneficial to their ability to lucid dream. The way I see it, whether you chose to include a reality check or not in the overall practice won't affect in any way the effectiveness of the technique.

Now, in the case of when to apply the technique, what's important here is to consider the way the practice has been designed. The purpose is to cultivate awareness. The problem I see with spacing the technique every 10 minutes or every hour is that there's the need to try and control the whole process and make it as predictable as it can be. I also find it a lot more complicated to do it this way.

If we take a look at dreams, we'll see how unpredictable they are in nature. Most of the time we're involved in some type of plot that consumes our attention completely. We're in the moment, yet not necessarily aware of the situation. What's interesting is that the unpredictable nature of dreams is also what's predictable about it. So, we are to use that unpredictability to our advantage. Instead of questioning reality every 10 minutes or every hour, we apply the technique whenever it's we find ourselves distracted, whenever we're unaware. It doesn't matter if it took you a minute, 24 minutes, an hour or 5 to get distracted, what's important here is to note about the loss of awareness. When we notice our lack of awareness, we correct it by using the technique.

This way, we're killing two birds with one stone. In one way, we're training our mind to remain in a state of awareness, and in another way, we're becoming aware of our loss of awareness. We're anticipating the situation next time it happens as well as training our minds to immediately return to awareness as soon as we find ourselves distracted. We are anticipating unpredictability. Nor you nor I can know when we'll get distracted. It's something that just happens, and we don't care when it happens, only that it can. When it does, we will take note of it and return our focus back to awareness. This is why the practice is divided in two very important facets. Questioning alone is one part of the practice, and what happens after it is equally important.

The idea here is to remain aware for longer periods of time, to keep the number of distractions to a minimum of 0 (This is our ideal goal). If we manage to attain and retain awareness then the number of times we use the technique will decrease. Even if we were to get distracted, through practice alone we will manage to cut the time that it takes for us to notice that distraction and correct it.



My personal practice for training awareness lies in the basic premise I've previously explained above. I practice awareness throughout the day, then, every time I find myself unaware (and notice it), I ask myself: "Where am I?" and "How did I got here?" By answering these questions I can easily ground myself back in awareness and continue the practice, until I find myself again unaware, and I repeat the whole process again.

The thing here is to break down the practice so it becomes easier to handle, and more effective as well. Again, more isn't always better. Progress will be made faster if you can do one thing exceptionally well, than if you are doing 5 things at once, and all terribly done. We want to find the prefect challenge, one that helps us grow, not one that is too difficult for us to overcome nor one that's too easy. So, what you could do is focus on one sense out of the many that we have. That includes the senses of: sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, propioception, gravity, balance, temperature, pain, emotions, and so on and so forth. Although, if you can handle your actual form of practicing awareness then go for it.

Recently, I've been looking into mindfulness to include it in my practice, as it's something I'm particularly interested at. How you chose and what you chose to do in order to train awareness is entirely up to you.

Just that answer made me lose my head again, so again i ask, if you don't use reality checks that frequently
how can you lucid dream? that's what i dont get, some people don't reality check and they can lucid dream
in like 2 days, i reality check every day and i barely get any dreams where i reality check on.
Anyway, about the awareness, i'm not sure if i should just focus on 1 sense or in more
because on a dream, 1 sense is very useless i guess, but, the more senses i try to be aware on
the less time i can get aware too, this is a difficult challenge as well.


Anyway, do you think my ADA style would work for this?

Originally Posted by Iriba

Just that answer made me lose my head again, so again i ask, if you don't use reality checks that frequently
how can you lucid dream? that's what i dont get, some people don't reality check and they can lucid dream
in like 2 days, i reality check every day and i barely get any dreams where i reality check on.
Anyway, about the awareness, i'm not sure if i should just focus on 1 sense or in more
because on a dream, 1 sense is very useless i guess, but, the more senses i try to be aware on
the less time i can get aware too, this is a difficult challenge as well.

The reality checks are not my focus. They're only the fail-safe mechanism that allows me to return to awareness whenever I find myself unaware. For example, just now I'm currently training awareness in sight, in what I can see. This is my main form of practice. Whenever it is I find myself in a dream, I become aware because any visual response that I receive from the dream (what I can see) is an indication that I'm dreaming. It's like a natural trigger that induces lucidity. If however, should that trigger fail, or I lose awareness, then my mind automatically notices that state of distraction, triggering the questions (Where am I? How did I get here?) that allows me to get lucid or return to that lucid mindset. It's as simple as that.

Take, for instance, how many others have focused on any other sense to trigger lucidity as well, like gravity. If you train yourself to become aware of the gravitational pull around you, to notice the changes in gravity between one state or the other, etc. then that alone can act as a trigger for you to induce lucidity in dreams.

I only added a reality check to the practice as a fail-safe mechanism, that's all. Just with that addition, the whole design of the practice changes.

Originally Posted by Wolfdog

The reality checks are not my focus. They're only the fail-safe mechanism that allows me to return to awareness whenever I find myself unaware. For example, just now I'm currently training awareness in sight, in what I can see. This is my main form of practice. Whenever it is I find myself in a dream, I become aware because any visual response that I receive from the dream (what I can see) is an indication that I'm dreaming. It's like a natural trigger that induces lucidity. If however, should that trigger fail, or I lose awareness, then my mind automatically notices that state of distraction, triggering the questions (Where am I? How did I get here?) that allows me to get lucid or return to that lucid mindset. It's as simple as that.

Take, for instance, how many others have focused on any other sense to trigger lucidity as well, like gravity. If you train yourself to become aware of the gravitational pull around you, to notice the changes in gravity between one state or the other, etc. then that alone can act as a trigger for you to induce lucidity in dreams.

I only added a reality check to the practice as a fail-safe mechanism, that's all. Just with that addition, the whole design of the practice changes.

So, lets suppose i try to focus all my senses at once, and i can barely
handle 10 minutes. after those 10 minutes i'm supposed to question my reality
and reality check after that? then i continue to focus?? so if that ever happens in a dream
i will never lose my awareness or i will be reality checking.

Originally Posted by Iriba

So, can you give me an example how i should do ADA?
from what i understand a quick question and a quick look around is more effective
and also 1 reality check

I gave you two concrete suggestions and you apparently entirely blew them off. My answer is contained in those references: acquire/find them, study them, and apply what they teach. That's my final word here.

Originally Posted by FryingMan

I gave you two concrete suggestions and you apparently entirely blew them off. My answer is contained in those references: acquire/find them, study them, and apply what they teach. That's my final word here.

"Instead cultivate mindfulness of YOU, yourself, where you are, what you're doing, how you're reacting: very high level awareness"

You said this, but i don't quite understand.
Isn't this the ADA i'm actually doing, or is it different?