Thread: Luring dreams to capture them seems more efficient than chasing them

What an interesting way of thinking about lucid dreams!

So from what I understand from this, if you simply stay calm and less excited to have lucid dreams, they'll come more naturally? Meaning you're just supposed to have a neutral mindset every night before you sleep, but only slightly wish to have a lucid dream?

Yeah, you have to be calm and tired to sleep; so you can have dreams. We're not really excited and hopeful that we'll have dreams during the night, because there will always be dreams. So, what you're saying is we basically have to apply that to lucidity, as well. Whenever you become lucid in a dream, just act like it's normal. And I guess that's how the more you get lucid dreams, the more it is easier to have more, because you're more used to it and thus, more calm.

Good thread .

Interesting choice of terms. It was my mantra for a while to "catch the dream," the metaphor is a good one.

Calmness/relaxation is a Real Thing(™) that has major implications on dreaming. Tension makes us clumsy, we must move fluidly and smoothly in order to catch those slippery dreams! "Relax and dream" is a great mantra (in addition to being the handle of an upstanding member of our DV community ).
Setting very strong intention seems to put (me at least) firmly into a "chasing" mindset, and can create a lot of tension if you're not careful.

We must trust our minds to deliver the dreams to us. It will, as it does *every night*. We just must be receptive to noticing them and "luring them in." We must be open to the dream experience. One cannot simultaneously hold themselves too far separated from the dream experience (to be "safe"), and also get close enough to catch the dream!

Naturals seem to universally come out of childhood with the connection to dreams and dreaming intact. What is different about children? They see and describe things without regards to societal inhibitions, they "call it like it is." I think this is a form of "elemental attention" and is why nightmares are so frightening for children: to them, the experience of the nightmare is real, and immediate, and they are vulnerable to experiencing its full effects. As adults we build up mental barriers to filter our experiences to protect ourselves from undesired influences or feeling emotions too strongly, adults do not like being vulnerable. IMO the natural maintains the childlike, open, vulnerable connection to experience, including dreams, and can therefore experience them to their fullest extent.

Trust, openness, joy, vulnerability, calmness, pure attention to experience: that's what lures the dream!

So from what I understand from this, if you simply stay calm and less excited to have lucid dreams, they'll come more naturally? Meaning you're just supposed to have a neutral mindset every night before you sleep, but only slightly wish to have a lucid dream?

Well, judging from last night, I it's not as simple as I put it in the OP as I was hoping it would be. I think FryingMan puts it better!

Another way to put the idea of the thread is encouraging lucid dreams rather than forcing them.

Hey there,

With that exact idea in mind, I recently changed my 'intention' exercises. I use to go to bed setting my intention to have great dream experiences, dream incubation, and lucidity. I did so as usual, by telling myself I'd have great dreams, dream about a particular subject, and have lucid dreams. I'd repeat those intentions after each WBTB.

Sometimes it'd work. Sometimes it didn't. However, more then once, it felt to me like I was chasing phantoms. Like I'm constantly trying to catch something out of reach. Even if I had a success, I'd increase the goal and tell myself 'one more, one better, one longer, etc'. The problem though, was that I was directing my attention too much on 'what I wasn't dreaming about yet'. Like looking at the horizon, rather then at the road under my feet.

So I changed tack and decided before bed, I'd work from what I already had, which was my previous dreams. I'd analyze last night dreams for the elements I wanted (or previous dreams if last night's had no such elements). Were there great experiences there? Were there indications that my dream incubation was successful, like elements that I wanted or references to the incubation idea? Were there signs of increased awareness, of dream control, of dream signs?

For example:

Before, I'd set my intention 'I'll have great dreams, I'll dream of a loved one (dream incubation), and I'll be more aware of dreaming and make lucid choices'.

Now, however, I go look at my previous dreams for the elements I want. I had a dream last night where an old pet of mine, my beloved cat long since passed way, was lying on my lap purring happily. So I'd recall this in detail, as it was a clearly linked to my wish for dream incubation (it wasn't the loved one I was trying to incubate, but it was a clear reference to the idea). It was also a great and emotional dream, so it linked to the desire to have great dreams as well. Later in the night, I had an almost WILD, where I was in a candy shop. I was no longer aware of my waking body, but the dream hypnagogia were still too vague and flimsy to be called a real dream. Still, I link this to my desire to have more lucidity and so recalled that episode in detail as well.

The idea is to work constructively from what I had, then let it expand naturally as I focus my attention on improving what I have. Sort of when you're training to run ten miles if you've never ran a mile in your life. You wouldn't start each session saying 'today I will run ten miles'. You'd start by running what you can, remember what you ran last time, try for a little bit more, and trust that your physical condition is improving and that eventually you'll get there.

Its too early for me to draw any real conclusions, but at least preliminary results have been very positive. I get far more success with this approach, and it feels far more relaxed and natural at the same time (which as stated here above may well be the reason for the increased success).

Just my 2 cents,

-Redrivertears-