Thread: Lucid Dreams don't exist!

Ok.

I see what you mean and completely agree with you in the fact that we should completely abandon asking the question about "if it was a lucid dream" since only you could know. I also agree with you that we shouldn't be concerned aboud the amount of lucid dreams but rather the quality. But as for the fact that if lucid dreams exist, you are completly off the mark. For most people (actually all but you) a lucid dream is a dream in which you recognize that you're dreaming. The name "Lucid dream" means nothing to us (some of us may not even know what "lucid" means). It was just the name that the first person called it. If they started calling them "sepcial dreams" thats what we'd be calling them. And as for your thoughts of defining lucid dreaming, your essentially saying that nothing can be defined (which I actually agree with since there are way too many exceptions to everything). So as far as I, and everyone else on this board, the way we define it, "Lucid dreaming" exists.

I read it all without stopping. And people say I have a short attention span? Feh. They're just boring writers/speakers. Anyway, lots of philosophy here. Yup. May take me a while to sort through my total opinions on it. I'll spout whatever I have to say for the moment.

I agree that we cannot define abstract qualities like consciousness, intelligence, etc. We try to categorize these things because we like to; it is our nature. But just because there is no clear-cut line does not mean these qualities do not exist, right? Surely there is a practical difference between comatose and conscious, even if the line be blurry? Then why must you say that 'lucidity,' the 'knowledge' that one is dreaming, does not exist? Lucidity is in the same category as consciousness. There is a practical, although blurry, line between lucidity and non-lucidity.

Because we all do not have the same mind, our views on these definitions are entirely subjunctive in nature. So in theory, none of these qualities can really exist. But for practical purposes, for communication and growth, we try to create general definitions for them.

So yes, for all practical purposes, lucid dreaming 'exists.'

... Straying from this point, I'm just going to chat about this quote:

"Whether a dream is lucid or not has no inherent value to the dream itself."

Sure it does. You just have to look at it in the right light. In all of my summer lucids, I soaked up the experience, and just relished the fact, and pondered the fact, and marveled the fact that I was in a dream. That no matter how real it felt, I was actually in my bed. And I let that feeling, the feeling that our entire lives are subjectively experienced (just like the dream state) overwhelm me... It's important not to lose sight of that. Any good lucid dream must start with this fundamental awe. Awe breeds thorough consciousness, and signals to your mind that it's something you care about. I take note to make "feeling lucid" the top priority on my lucid task list. For if that is not accomplished at a satisfactory and thoughtful manner, then no lucid really matters.

I really enjoyed your response, Abra. I think you summed it up and even brought into view this notion:

Originally Posted by Abra

Any good lucid dream must start with this fundamental awe. Awe breeds thorough consciousness, and signals to your mind that it's something you care about. I take note to make "feeling lucid" the top priority on my lucid task list. For if that is not accomplished at a satisfactory and thoughtful manner, then no lucid really matters.

When one first begins to lucid dream, the mere idea of being lucid is enough to keep them interested and put them into a state of wonder at how one's mental self could be seemingly separate from their physical. I've had a couple of (low-level) LDs where I woke up and thought, "Well, that could have been better."

Anyway, just wanted to comment on that.

hahahhaha hey phalangees
does your nick derive from the anatomical term used to label fingers and toes? or what

Hey there,

To continue's Abra's quote (and apologies if I take it slightly out of context):

Any good lucid dream must start with this fundamental awe. Awe breeds thorough consciousness, and signals to your mind that it's something you care about. I take note to make "feeling lucid" the top priority on my lucid task list. For if that is not accomplished at a satisfactory and thoughtful manner, then no lucid really matters.

Not only do I agree, this is exactly my point. Make "feeling lucid" your top priority.

Imagine for a moment you've never experienced a lucid dream before, and you read the following two dream fragments:

a) "As I noticed the golden bird in the sky, I suddenly realised I was dreaming. I became lucid. What a wonderful feeling. Taking a moment to ground myself, I then started trying to fly and took off into the sky."

b) "As I noticed the golden bird in the sky, a sudden shock went through me. Like the feeling you get of a sudden insight, that just seems to pass through your spine. I looked around in awe of my surroundings, taking in my surroundings and told myself: "I must be dreaming.". Letting this awed feeling take me over completely, I started some exercises which were meant to keep me fully in the dream, and then I tried to fly. I felt like I detached from the ground, sort of like two magnets being pulled apart, there is a sudden "change" in cohesion as the feeling of weightlessness sets in."

I think that the second will make it easier for someone to understand the feeling of getting lucid, and thereby get closer to the experience of it. Additionally, even advanced lucid dreamers, I think, can be helped by constantly reminding themselves of this other level in the way they talk and communicate, perhaps even write in their dreamjournal.

Ofcourse we all know what the term "lucidity' refers to and what the experience of it is, but are those associations consciously triggered every time we talk about lucid dreams. Not for me at least.

In dream yoga, the teachers will make heavy use of metaphores to try and help their students find their way along the path. They do this because they realise that symbolic level of language is essentially empty, and that what you're trying to talk about is on another level. So they use metaphores to things we know and can relate to, in order to try and evoke certain feelings, sensations and experiences to which the experience of lucidity can be likened.

Likewise, I believe that for us as well, analogies, metaphores, trying to capture sensations and experiences can be very useful in atainting lucidity.

My 2 dreamycents,

-Redrivertears-

Wow, I think you have really helped me. I was chasing something, you helped me know what it was. thank you. Now things seem more possible. Now I understand the use of a dream journal.

Dreaming is like going through a memory, if you have a bad memory (or poor dream recall) you just skim over it and hope you got the base idea. But if you have a good memory (or good dream recall) you will be able to know of (not only remember) that dream-like object or happening for you to catch it and become "lucid"