Thread: Don't You Just Wish This Was Possible?

rofl, this could potentially turn into quite an interesting thread...

um... yeah. i predict several firefights. it MIGHT be possible, ya never know. although if you think about it scientifically, i have no clue how someone's brain waves could acually travel to another person's head.

Is this some trollololol ?

to tell the truth, i'd be glad if i discovered SD was all a myth. the idea of a person being able to enter my dreams is kind of scary. could lead to funny arguments though:
"This is MY dream!"
"What are you talking about!? it's MINE! I was here first!"
ect. but if they were stronger than me... that would be just bad. i am vicious, evil, cocky, and rude in my lucids. i could easily PO somebody and if it turned out they were real and better at control than me...

I for one do not buy it. As much as I want to buy it I don't. There are many reasons why. For instance, they would have to enter REM at the exact same time, meaning sleeping at the same time. Yes possible but they would have to coordinate the time and hope there bodies were in sync. I don't see how they can say ok tonight we will meet at Location A and bam they are there at the same time.
^plausible I guess

So now they are in REM at the same time, where is the connection? Its spiritual......you say. So what you are telling me is that we humans have the ability to send out frequencies faster than the speed of light from one human to another to convey a message instantaneously? I can guarantee that if there was even a hint at this being do-able that a lot of people would already have training classes getting paid tons of money to be able to do it. I'm willing to bet that you few 15-20 year olds kids on this website are the only people to ever tap into this ability.
^not quite
Like the guy above me basically said. If this was possible do you know how much the US government would pay people to tap into other peoples dreams. Hell I would sell my soul to hop into Bill Gates head and convince him to donate a few million dollars to the Braden Irby Needs Money Fund.

Also if you are hopping into other peoples dream and chatting it up with them w/ fireballs and such then whats to stop you from going into awake peoples day dreams and everyday thoughts and reeking havoc?

Now yes you can firmly believe it all you want. You can both run and tell everyone the same dream. But if I know people like I know people most will go along with a lot of crazy crap. For example, I find it very entertaining to go to Walmart and go up to random people and say, "Dude, Hows it been man!! I haven't seen you in forever!! What you been getting into these days?" I can hold a convo with them for a bit to. Two guys who are good friends will even say that they totally saw their buddy do something completely crazy even though it has never happened just to still be his BF. I honestly think this is what is going on.

The only way that I would buy this at all is if
A. It happened to me and then again I would need something other than the other person to reassure myself that it wasn't just another dream.

or

B. That a few people were able to describe to me the exact same thing right after waking up and no other communication between the 2. Basically, 2 individual accounts of the same dream. No set ups nothing just 100% HONEST ACCOUNTS. Now I don't expect this to happen because the 100% valid argument of "I don't have to prove anything" would arise or they would of coarse talk about it before telling me what happen because they don't want to be wrong.

For my honest opinion read the spoiler. But dont read if you are easily offended

Spoiler for Honest Opinion:

Now I am not saying that these people are liers or frauds. What I am saying is that they are probably a couple of kids 12-17 or immature adults lost in a(for lack of a better word) dream. I think one said lets try it and the other said lets do it. They went to bed and one or both had random dreams. They got in touch the next day and told each other about it and were both in agreeance that it happened and got more and more carried away over it till they even buy into it.

Spoiler for Even harder:

I'm also willing to bet that most of them aren't stable individuals who think rationally about things and are looking for something to fill there so called empty helpless lives that way they are unique and special and they have a friend or group who is just like them, and anyone challenging them would be attacking who they are and what they have been through and wouldn't understand at all.

I don't expect any proof. I only expect people to kinda agree, 100% agree, totally agree or 100% RAGE QUIT ANGER DISAGREE!!

I am not completely sold on the idea, but I have had a few dreams that are the same as my friends. This might just be coincedence, or a shared dream, I dont know. Once I get better at LDing, I will investigate this further. I'm not going to even speculate on how it would be possible before I have more data.

BUT then again people only use a small part of the brain. who's to say the parts we DON'T use aren't in use while asleep. but then again i'm no expert so i can't say. nobody can really say if it's real or not... at least with modern technology. if it's not possible, who knows? they make scientific leaps every day. they might come out with an artificial means. *shrug* like i said, i'm no expert. But Lucid Dreaming is awesome without it. i say what more could anyone want than a toy/tool like that?

Originally Posted by Wristblade56

um... yeah. i predict several firefights. it MIGHT be possible, ya never know. although if you think about it scientifically, i have no clue how someone's brain waves could acually travel to another person's head.

its because the brain isnt the mind. the brain just receives and filters out the thoughts it receives from the environment/universal mind all around it. of course i have nothing concrete to back this up, but im sure there is a shared subconscious mind that links everything so i see no reason why shared dreams are not possible

dreams do not take place in linear time aswell so there would be no need to time it precisely. also if you look at the shared dreams it seems that not all parts of the dreams are identical meaning people can be experiencing things that are similar enough to count as shared experience, yet the dreamers perception puts their own individual spin on it for them.

the main reason it seems so plausible to me is that all the people who write about it, seem to be the ones who know the most about dreaming and are the ones that are the most helpful to us newbs and give the best advice so i would be inclined to take them at their word. what have they to gain from lying on the internet...? nowt

The most precious thing to a human is its Ego, and so they have a lot to gain by lying. It will make people believe that these liers are unique and are bestowed with some sort of higher-power, thereby resulting in an inflated ego and an awesome god-like feeling.

Do I think it is real? No.

Do I wish it to be real? Uhh, no, not really.

Hope I´m not intruding but I think most descrptions of shared dreams are naive and false because both the dream environment and the dream characters are obviously mind-created buh this does not mean I don´t believe it could happen. If we assume every experience is mind-created as some philosophical schools believe then anything can be explained. But at my present state of perception, any shared experience will manifest very subtly as shared thoughts, opinions, desires, synchronicity, affinity, insights and so on.

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

The most precious thing to a human is its Ego, and so they have a lot to gain by lying. It will make people believe that these liers are unique and are bestowed with some sort of higher-power, thereby resulting in an inflated ego and an awesome god-like feeling.

hmm yes you do have a point. dont get me started on ego though. ill be here all night trying to hold on to mine. i dont relly see that ugly side of ego in many posters round here. its definately possible to influence others dreams through suggestion which is largely what the purpose of state brainwashing i believe. and although its of course possible to dream about similar places and things i guess its just the kind of thing that we will all be dubious of unless it happens to us

Well, I have personally shared a dream with my brother, on accident. Before that dream I would have never believed it possible. There's no way that this could be a coincidence. Dreams have infinite possibilities. So if this were a coincidence the probability of us having the same dream about each other is 1 out of infinity. Just to let you know my brother and I are completely different people. We think in completely different ways and we don't even remotely act like each other. He thinks it was just a coincidence.

Originally Posted by Wristblade56

BUT then again people only use a small part of the brain. who's to say the parts we DON'T use aren't in use while asleep. but then again i'm no expert so i can't say. nobody can really say if it's real or not... at least with modern technology. if it's not possible, who knows? they make scientific leaps every day. they might come out with an artificial means. *shrug* like i said, i'm no expert. But Lucid Dreaming is awesome without it. i say what more could anyone want than a toy/tool like that?

This is a completely inaccurate statement. It has been proven that we use a very large portion of our brain. We use pretty much out whole brain. Not all of it is for thinking. It is said we use about 60% of our brain while sleeping. Which makes a lot of sense. We aren't using any voluntary muscle groups so those part of the brain wont be functioning. A lot of our involuntary muscle groups wont be functioning so there is another portion we arnt using. We aren't using out eyes and site has been said to take up a huge portion of the brain. So please don't use the 10% of the brain argument.

I'm open to it, but I don't totally believe it either. I'm not even sure if I would like it to be true. People I know just popping into MY dreams all the time? No thanks...

Originally Posted by whiterain

its because the brain isnt the mind. the brain just receives and filters out the thoughts it receives from the environment/universal mind all around it. of course i have nothing concrete to back this up, but im sure there is a shared subconscious mind that links everything so i see no reason why shared dreams are not possible

dreams do not take place in linear time aswell so there would be no need to time it precisely. also if you look at the shared dreams it seems that not all parts of the dreams are identical meaning people can be experiencing things that are similar enough to count as shared experience, yet the dreamers perception puts their own individual spin on it for them.

the main reason it seems so plausible to me is that all the people who write about it, seem to be the ones who know the most about dreaming and are the ones that are the most helpful to us newbs and give the best advice so i would be inclined to take them at their word. what have they to gain from lying on the internet...? nowt

First I would like to tackle the time thing. It may very well be non-linear but how do you know this. Yes it makes your point valid but only if it is valid. either way if they didn't happen at the same time then this means one person is not in control of anything. Think about it, If one person has the dream first then everything that they do will happen in the other persons dream. Therefore the person having the second dream would do everything his first dream self did. He wouldn't be acting on free will. He would be filling out an exact plan set in for him, and if he didn't do what his original dream self did then he would do what ever he wanted and they would go off and do all sorts of things essentially having a completely different dream. Thus proving that they didnt share a dream they had 2 completely different dreams doing completely different things basically having there own dreams with a dream character that looks like the other.

Now onto the lieing. I would agree that the people on here declaring that they are having shared dreams are in fact the ones helping us out but, this does not stop them from lieing. As I originally stated I do not think that anyone is lieing. What I am saying is that they probably wanted to do it, picked a time, place, discussed what they would do, and everything. Got excited went to bed had very similar dreams and then called each other up the next day and asked each other about it. Having similar dreams and both wanting it so much would probably have fudged up their version of the story to make it like the others.

For instance, lets say they had almost identical dreams yet one person had a dog following him around the whole dream and the other didn't see any dog at all. So when they talked about the dream the next day person A would ask how weird it was that a dog was following him the whole time and person B would probably just be like IDK that's weird, essentially confirming that they both dreamed about a dog and everything.

This is where the breakdown is happening. A group of people so excited that they shared a dream blindly go with anything said about it and will agree on most things that happen even if they didn't.

And by what you are saying that each individual has his/her own spin on the dream then by that token I shared my dream with all of you every night. My version just involves me not seeing any of you or you are random DC's with no control in my dream. Now I give any of you permission to pop up in my dream and come running through shooting fireballs and flying around screaming at me. But I doubt it will happen and the only way I would believe it is if you, in the dream, gave me your S/N on here and said PM me.

Now if this is for real for real, then why haven't any of you tackled the aspect of predicting the future? I'm not throwing this out there in jest, I am serious. I have many family members who have claimed to have basically predicted the future. Not openly or anything but confide in other family members. My Great-Grandmother had a dream about my mom getting in a car accident hours before it happened and told her not to go. My little sister had a dream about my brother almost driving off a bridge, over dosing on drugs and nearly dieing in a hospital. Both of which happened the next day. She didn't even know he did any kind of drugs for the drug one.

So why haven't you guys tapped into that? I would love to believe it, I really would but I don't see it happening. None of you can pull that one off. None of you can come on here each night predicting what happens tomorrow because if it doesn't happen we can instantly call you a lier. However something like dream sharing can only be proven by giving accurate accounts of the exact same dream with out any communication other than, where to meet when to meet.

I don't see anyone stepping up to that plate so I don't see it being real. Because if it was real I am sure you would want us to tap into that ability and the only way any of us are gonna try it is if we believe it. Its not a believing is seeing situation.

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

The most precious thing to a human is its Ego, and so they have a lot to gain by lying. It will make people believe that these liers are unique and are bestowed with some sort of higher-power, thereby resulting in an inflated ego and an awesome god-like feeling.

I like this guy. Ego is exactly why someone would lie on the internet. Believe it or not people lie on the internet every day. I mean I would get a lot of satisfaction out of telling you all that I took my Jeep out for some off road fun and ramped it over a river! Complete and utter lie but if you guys believe that I pulled it off then I feel pretty Bad A$$.

Look I am not trying to be the bad guy. I am deployed and what I wouldn't give to be able to share dreams with my Fiance. I want it to be real. I am open to the idea, but it is one of those things that telling me its real isnt enough. Especially when there are ways to show others it real. For instance, how do you play the pick a number game? I tell you to pick a number 1-10 and then I guess what that number is. The only way I know you don't change that number is for you to tell some one else, a 3rd party person.

I want to be the third party individual between 2 people who say they have shared dreams and are 100% honest in their attempts to show me its real. It would be simple. You peeps pick a place to meet up and don't discuss any unnecessary information (ie. what you will do, where you will go after meeting up) Figure it out in the dream. Do the deed. The day after the dream happens don't talk to each other come straight to me and tell me what happened. Then I will compare or another 3rd party will compare if you don't trust me. If you do this like 5 or so times and your accounts are almost identical then its pretty much undeniable.

wow thanks for the detailed response birbs. as i say i do not yet speak from experience of shared dreaing so have my own doubts. i have however experienced alot that at one point i would have written off as complete bollocks. thus i no longer wish to try to limit myself with my own beliefs. what i will say is that i think everything is possible, just not very probable. until such time perhaps when these things are meant to start happening on a more regular basis. once you have had enough vivid dream experience and have experienced the transitions from waking to lucid dreaming, then it is pretty difficult to say whether reality is actually any realer than all we experience in the dream worlds. as a result i currently reckon that there is a major probablility that this entire world is little more than an intesely stable shared dream, or what people label as concensus reality.

i have learnt most about dreaming from reading about shamanic cultures around the world and they all speak of history and traditions of sharing dreams and visions, and damn do those guys know what they are talking about. so to sum up i believe the dream world to be a place which is just as real, just built and experienced differently to the normal world. there is certainly little harm in allowing yourself to believe in something like that, its far more damaging to limit yourself by purposefully disbelieving something that could be as amazing as sharing a dream with someone. for what its worth i have tripped with friends and shared things like thoughts which i never thought possible. also i have thought i have shared visions with people while tripping, yet later on they cannot remember anything about it apart from some vague ideas. i was probably wrong, but would have no idea why it would feel so real. i think recall is the biggest wall in proving these experiences. take care mate. best of luck in sharing one with the missus, it would be amazing

Interesting. Here are my thoughts, personal experience aside.

Originally Posted by Birbs07

I'm also willing to bet that most of them aren't stable individuals who think rationally about things...

I understand your frustration and share some of it with you. Shared dreaming isn't as common of a concept as other things, thus I think it tends to go under the fire quite a bit more often. However, common concepts such as God are just as irrational, if not more (at least you could perhaps use the scientific method to test Shared Dreaming!).

Originally Posted by Birbs07

For instance, lets say they had almost identical dreams yet one person had a dog following him around the whole dream and the other didn't see any dog at all. So when they talked about the dream the next day person A would ask how weird it was that a dog was following him the whole time and person B would probably just be like IDK that's weird, essentially confirming that they both dreamed about a dog and everything.

I'm not sure that your example is accurate. A dream is like an idea, is it not? Imagine you are in a group of 5 people. Your group is brainstorming ideas for a fantasy plot. One of your group members has an epiphany, and shares with the rest of the group the general plot in her idea. As she is telling the story, each group member is reliving the plot in their own heads. The plot line remains the same, but the details change based upon the individual’s archetypes. Together, the six group members are sharing an idea, and an idea is very similar to a dream. The images in their heads are extremely similar, but the finer details change.

I've always believed that the best stance to take on an issue that isn't really solvable is the "agnostic" view. We can't categorically say whether God does or does not exist - if God is 'everything' (for lack of a better term), then God is infinite knowledge, and thus beyond our scope of reasoning as many things are.

If you don't believe me, take a look at the electromagnetic spectrum. The electromagnetic spectrum is rather large, however only a small portion of it is dedicated to the colors that we can see with the naked eye. Try to invent a new color. You can't. Your new color will only be a mere mixture of two previous existing colors. What we see and our ideas (think Complex Ideas - We cannot make a new idea without combining two or more known, preexisting ideas. For example, Angel = human + wings) is dictated by what we already perceive. How many colors can't we see, and how much of what goes on around aren't we aware of?

With that said, maybe you understand why I believe it's more sensible to take the "agnostic" approach. Perhaps everything is only a mere coincidence, I could accept that. Perhaps instead of seeing ghosts my entire family suffered a mass hallucination for a year. That's ok too. I think that the wisest approach to this issue is to remain undecided. But for now, I'll stick with Socrates: "Wisest is he who knows he does not know."

Z

What you say about the brainstorming does have an empirical basis. In Psychology, it has been shown that if many people are read the same excerpt from a story, and then asked to recall as much as possible verbatim, that their reports vary drastically. Furthermore, this has also been similarly documented with the viewing of a video and an attempt at verbatim recall. No two people see the same thing, psychologically speaking. And no two people see the same thing (exactly), physically speaking, unless they're literally inhabiting the exact same area of space as another.

However, whilst details in this shared dreaming could vary considerably as in real life, if the plot is obviously different then there is an absolute lack of support for it. The problem is that when this occurs, those same people will claim that they merely failed to establish a shared dreaming link (rather than believe it doesn't work). They essentially rely on the "Me and my dreaming partner are not pros at it yet. We can't always do it" card.

An honest, critical person should be able to answer this question in relation to his/her beliefs: 'What evidence would I need to renounce this belief?' If they cannot answer this, then they are blindly following that belief. They cannot be helped.

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

However, whilst details in this shared dreaming could vary considerably as in real life, if the plot is obviously different then there is an absolute lack of support for it. The problem is that when this occurs, those same people will claim that they merely failed to establish a shared dreaming link (rather than believe it doesn't work). They essentially rely on the "Me and my dreaming partner are not pros at it yet. We can't always do it" card.

Yes.

Originally Posted by MrTransitory

An honest, critical person should be able to answer this question in relation to his/her beliefs: 'What evidence would I need to renounce this belief?' If they cannot answer this, then they are blindly following that belief. They cannot be helped.

Then, should the same be true about God? If one believes that (that as in what you are saying), then it is illogical that one would believe in God - there is no sound way to prove for or against his existence. How do we know that the evidence that seemingly disproves the hypothesis actually disproves it? Refer back to my previous post for more explanation on this.

Much of the mystery surrounding shared dreaming relies on unverified hypotheses. Unfortunately, as I tried to explain in my previous post, this belongs to the category of the untestable. But is the untestable invalid? Until recently, we couldn't prove that humans could think. Alas, finally we know the answer to that plaguing question . Perhaps science will catch up? Maybe, maybe not.

I think that you're on to something, but I would reword what you are saying to something like this: An honest, critical person should contemplate their beliefs to see if they truly align with reality, while not taking subjects on face value. In other words, until science can definitively prove for or against shared dreaming, it's something best left to contemplation.

Hope that made sense, probably didn't.

Z

This subject is very testable. I basically layed out the guidelines for a test.

Person A and Person B establish the necessary tools for a shared dreaming experience(ie. Permissions, Locations, Time, what have you)
Person C waits for A and B to have said Shared Dream.
Night after Person A and Person B give there accounts of the dream to Person C. Person A and Person B have no communication other than the pre-reqs.

The accounts may differ but that's not the point. I mean if they came back and both told me they met at the beach flew to Paris. Climbed the Eiffel tower and then Jumped off at which point Person A woke up so in person B's account Person A disappeared at the dive, then that is almost undeniable proof, even if one of them said they stopped for Ice Cream on the way. Especially if we continued this testing for about 6 months and got very similar accounts on every Shared Dream.

But if person A says they did what I just said they did and person B says they went to Spain, went scuba diving and then flew around the city. Then I am assuming they didn't have a shared dream. Its easily testable. The only variables are the honesty of the 2 individuals and the amount of info shared Pre-Dream. If you guys plan out every little step in the dream then there is no way of knowing if its shared or not.

No I don't expect every detail to be exact but if the Majority of the story Is they went to Paris, Climbed the Tower, Then Dove off at which point person A disappeared. with the only information they discussed while being awake is Meet me at Fort Walton Beach, Fl right next to the Board walk tonight, then its pretty obvious they had either had a Shared Dream or an awesome coincidence that might as well be a shared dream.

Orrrr They could pick a meeting place and tell each other a phrase inside the dream then tell Person C the phrase the next day. If they almost never got the phrase wrong and where 100% honest how can It be denied that they had a Shared Dream.

This isn't a God is real Debate at all. Believing in God is a either you have Faith or you don't. You can't prove it so stop turning this into a God Debate. I am a huge Science Person, HUGE Science person and I believe in God whole-heartedly. But this, this can be tested that's why there is doubt. Where is the proof? Where is it? I could go through their Dream Journals but that doesn't prove anything other than they either talked about it before they posted their dreams of they are lieing.

I am not saying they didn't have shared dreams. I am saying with no evidence other than them saying they did then I will believe it is getting carried away with a good thing, "Lucid Dreaming".

Originally Posted by Birbs07

This subject is very testable. I basically layed out the guidelines for a test.

Person A and Person B establish the necessary tools for a shared dreaming experience(ie. Permissions, Locations, Time, what have you)
Person C waits for A and B to have said Shared Dream.
Night after Person A and Person B give there accounts of the dream to Person C. Person A and Person B have no communication other than the pre-reqs.

Sorry that I wasn't clear. When I was writing, I deleted a whole chunk of my argument because it sounded strange, which I guess made things confusing.

Before I deleted it, I was talking about a hypothesis on the forums that goes something around the lines of this: "Dream time doesn't correlate with real time". Meaning, that some people believe that person A could have dream X at 5AM, but Person B might not have that dream until Wednesday. When I was talking about it being untestable, that's what I was referring to. Sorry about that, I need to work on my writing skills!

And, I apologize if I offended you about God. I didn't mean to. I was trying to use it as an analogy, which I guess failed as well.

Originally Posted by Queen Zukin

Sorry that I wasn't clear. When I was writing, I deleted a whole chunk of my argument because it sounded strange, which I guess made things confusing.

Before I deleted it, I was talking about a hypothesis on the forums that goes something around the lines of this: "Dream time doesn't correlate with real time". Meaning, that some people believe that person A could have dream X at 5AM, but Person B might not have that dream until Wednesday. When I was talking about it being untestable, that's what I was referring to. Sorry about that, I need to work on my writing skills!

And, I apologize if I offended you about God. I didn't mean to. I was trying to use it as an analogy, which I guess failed as well.

Haha No no, I didn't get offended lol. I love debates and get really into them. I was gonna post somewhere after to let everyone know Im not raging or flaming just really into the debate.