Thread: Shared Dreaming Debate

Originally Posted by Lion

Ignore her, Jakob. I know it's hard to do and the urge to have the last word is overpowering sometimes, but you just have to let it go. You shouldn't have to prove yourself to her, and it's not bringing any progress to the thread.

You're probably right.

Thanks for your advice.

Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

I'm sorry for misunderstanding you, then, because I actually agree that claims of psychic phenomenon are over inflated. Perhaps we are on the same page, at least in this case.

If that's what you believe also, then yeah.

If you agree that psychic phenomenon is possible, then why do you continually bring up the Randi challenge? I'm sorry, but I don't understand what your stance is, then.

My stance is, that whoever posesses psychic ability (which he can reproduce in a controlled environment) should have a strong motivation to prove skeptics such as James Randi wrong. It would not only make him rich, but he would shut the mouths of 95% of skeptics out there. The fact that no one has done it so far doesn't mean to me that psychic phenomena don't exist. It means that these phenomena occur at a much lower number than people assume, and that they might not be reproducable that easily. This fact that they might not be always reproducable makes them hard to test in a study.

Shared dreaming on the other hand, at least the DV-type of shared dreaming (discussed this a million times), is easy to reproduce. Why? Because the stories I've read on the internet make it seem as if it's a piece of cake (for those people who allegedly practice it). Therefore, it is a perfect candidate for the Randi challenge.

I hope you understood me now.

I see now that you wrote that you do believe shared dreaming is possible. It seems its the over-exaggeration of claims that is getting under your skin. (Please correct me if I am wrong here.)

No you're not wrong at all.

If this is true, why does it bother you so much? Why not bring the discussion back to the possibility of shared dreaming and how that might work rather than focusing on specific claims? I think that would be much more interesting in any case.

Well, the OP didn't say anything about what was allowed/not allowed in this discussion. I simply pointed out that it is much more important to me to prove if it does work at all, and then worry about how it works. People then started responding to my comments, and it went on from there.

Maybe some people are over estimating their experience with shared dreaming. But, who knows, maybe we are all under estimating it as well.

I honestly don't think so. I'm trying to be as honest as I possible. I believe over 90% of the dream sharing tales I've read on the internet are made up. What evidence have you or anyone else given me to believe otherwise?

No offense intended, but when tons of dream researchers who can LD easily haven't dedicated 0.01% of their books/articles to the concept of shared dreaming, and over a span of many years haven't reported that they have had one single shared dream, then I won't easily believe a kid on the internet who says he has one every week.

Stephen LaBerge is an expert in this field who can lucid dream at will every night, and after all these years he doesn't claim he can do dream sharing. Sure, maybe it's a special gift given only to some people, but I was a teenager, and I have gotten the urge sometimes to make up things to get attention and be "special."

Again, honesty.

And, I edited out the last sentence because afterwards I saw a post by Sageous I wanted to respond to later. I am not trying to antagonize, and I realize that I may have responded a bit emotionally myself. I originally wrote that because I would rather walk away from a discussion where I feel my emotion is interfering with true understanding than continue to prolong a back and forth of aggression.

Granted this may only be my perception of the matter, but I sense a tone of attack in your posts. I am happen to continue the discussion if this is not the case. I apologize for any part I may have had in contributing to the tone of aggressiveness I see overall in this thread.

Well, I don't notice the aggressiveness coming from my side. Oh well.

Here we go: http://www.dreamviews.com/f32/passwo...riment-134237/

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

sorry, but how did i read her mind? And how am i not doing it right? I don't think there is an instruction manual for this sort of thing.

Hello? you woke her up, she was probably dreaming at the time. And people who are not used to reading minds don't actually know they are at the moment because they don't channel it often, or people just don't know how to do it. Are all skeptics this dumb to understand? i guess so, so this is why explaining is useless. I am seeing lots of skeptics here now popping up so enjoy this thread. I am not going to explain experiences that happens to me because it really is useless.

i guess i am "this dumb to understand." I grabbed her shoulder, shook her, and asked her what she was just dreaming about. If that's telepathy i guess i do believe.

(?!?!?!?!?!)

No that's not telepathy, when you pictured an airplane is when telepathy began. You actually caught this image that was similar to what your wife was dreaming which was an airport. In that case airport & airplanes go together right? it matches.
And you shouldn't have woke her up. Ask her after you both actually wake up from your night sleep.

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

i guess i am "this dumb to understand." I grabbed her shoulder, shook her, and asked her what she was just dreaming about. If that's telepathy i guess i do believe.

(?!?!?!?!?!)

What's the matter with "fuzzy and loosely related?"

When I read Zombies' post I was amazed that his wife spotted something so incredibly closely related to a passenger jet.

He'll, if she reported seeing a Tylenol with butterfly wings (for you Airplane! fans out there), I'd have been impressed.

The vast separation in perceptual context between two dreamers implies, to me at least, that it would be very difficult to see an image even similar to that being sent, and next to impossible to see exactly the same thing. Sure, it could've been coincidence and is an easy target for skepticism (and yeah, that skeptic might be right -- oh,, the irony!), but I think Zombie's wife did an excellent dream-catching job ... If that is what she did!

@ hathor

i disagree. If i hadn't woken her, it's unlikely that she would have remembered the dream at all.

if you believe that the best explanation for what happened is telepathy, i don't really know what to say to you. It's not like she actually "got" the "message" i was "sending," it was something loosely related. I wasn't thinking about airports at all, i was thinking about a blue and white passenger jet in flight. Also, that was only one instance; best explained by coincidence. Why are some people so quick to dismiss the most likely explanation and embrace the improbable? Like i said, i mean to keep doing it... if it keeps happening, THEN i will believe it's more than coincidence.

p.s., don't call me dumb again. If you can't learn to be polite, you should learn to be quiet while the big people are talking.

Here's another goofy question:

Are dream-sharing and telepathy necessarily that different, phenominologically speaking? Seriously, dismissing one for the other is to me like changing two fives for a ten and then saying there's a new amount.

Or did I miss something again?

Well then if you HAVE to wake her up to know this, then your message will never get across because you disturbed her dream. enough said. First of all you consciously do not know that you are receiving this image because you are not easily inclined to telepathy. And i know you was thinking of airplanes! omg! what's with people today? are people just skipping what i write here?

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

@ hathor

i disagree. If i hadn't woken her, it's unlikely that she would have remembered the dream at all.

if you believe that the best explanation for what happened is telepathy, i don't really know what to say to you. It's not like she actually "got" the "message" i was "sending," it was something loosely related. I wasn't thinking about airports at all, i was thinking about a blue and white passenger jet in flight. Also, that was only one instance; best explained by coincidence. Why are some people so quick to dismiss the most likely explanation and embrace the improbable? Like i said, i mean to keep doing it... if it keeps happening, THEN i will believe it's more than coincidence.

p.s., don't call me dumb again. If you can't learn to be polite, you should learn to be quiet while the big people are talking.

Yes you are missing something, i said before that ESP (telepathy) is similar to dream sharing. I am not dismissing any of those two.
To my knowledge dream sharing needs ESP, because once you dream share reading minds helps a lot with the experience

Originally Posted by Sageous

Here's another goofy question:

Are dream-sharing and telepathy necessarily that different, phenominologically speaking? Seriously, dismissing one for the other is to me like changing two fives for a ten and then saying there's a new amount.

Or did I miss something again?

Originally Posted by hathor28

Well then if you HAVE to wake her up to know this, then your message will never get across because you disturbed her dream. enough said. First of all you consciously do not know that you are receiving this image because you are not easily inclined to telepathy. And i know you was thinking of airplanes! omg! what's with people today? are people just skipping what i write here?

i am not skipping what you are writing. But i think it might be a good idea to start....

Right, when you just discovered you can't send a message due to interruption of a dream/sleep state got you a bit sour now. Which is true you can't just interrupt a dream when you sent a message to someone elses dream which you just woken up.

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

i am not skipping what you are writing. But i think it might be a good idea to start....

absolutely right. You got me. Nailed me to the wall.

Originally Posted by zombiesarebad

absolutely right. You got me. Nailed me to the wall.

rofl!

I voted "no, it's impossible" but I love reading about what other folks have to say about this kind of thing. It's a very interesting topic, regardless of how much flak it gets.

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

I voted "no, it's impossible" but I love reading about what other folks have to say about this kind of thing. It's a very interesting topic, regardless of how much flak it gets.

Hallo Ophelia! Wenn ich fragen darf, wieso denkst du eigentlich dass es unmöglich ist?

Originally Posted by Jakob

Hallo Ophelia! Wenn ich fragen darf, wieso denkst du eigentlich dass es unmöglich ist?

because I said so and I'm the boss

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

because I said so and I'm the boss

Fair enough. Shared dreaming is impossible because the boss says it is.

Originally Posted by Jakob

Hallo Ophelia! Wenn ich fragen darf, wieso denkst du eigentlich dass es unmöglich ist?

zombiesarebad,
I agree w/ Sageous that it was pretty incredible that your wife picked up on the "airplane" symbol at all! I think it would be interesting if you continued this experiment with a different symbol every night (as you mentioned earlier). If you do, please post results.

Personally, I wouldn't dare try the same technique as you on girlfriend, she would kill me if I woke her up in the middle of the night!

Lol!

Originally Posted by darkmatters

Originally Posted by hathor28

Hello? you woke her up, she was probably dreaming at the time. And people who are not used to reading minds don't actually know they are at the moment because they don't channel it often, or people just don't know how to do it. Are all skeptics this dumb to understand? i guess so, so this is why explaining is useless. I am seeing lots of skeptics here now popping up so enjoy this thread. I am not going to explain experiences that happens to me because it really is useless.

Then however can we understand? You want to prove something to us, yes? If you don't share your experiences we aren't going to make any progress in this debate, so I encourage you to do so.

EDIT: And whatever you think, you're not always right. I look forward to the day when you're proven wrong and it finally hits you in the face that everything coming out of your mouth isn't as true as you'd like to think. Sorry for that hate, but you're seriously grinding my gears with your constant affirmations that this is right and we're all wrong.

Okay then, everyone was right in this thread, there was no one here that was wrong.