Thread: Intrusion in dreams

Not worth talking to him, lol. He will continue this thread until the sun goes down

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

tsiouz....

These patterns from the unconscious take form in ways that are personal and specific to the individuals who experience them however. And any time two people have a relationship with each other, there is a interrelationship in how the wave breaks over both of them. Because of that interrelationship, one person learns or experiences something of the other, even though the medium which connects them is universal in some sense, and the pattern they are a part of us part of a much larger pattern.

Here's a connected dream experience that illustrates this, as an example I have posted before. I was thinking about Greek elements, earth, water, air, and fire, as being passive, passive-active, active-passive, and active. The 'phases' of matter, solid, liquid, and gas would have a correspondence to the first three. However, the phases are collective statistical properties, an individual molecule doesn't actually have a phase, and doesn't have kinetic energy except in relation to another molecule. The difference between a cloud of gas and several blocks of ice traveling in different directions is one of arrangement only. If so-called astral matter is said to be passive-active relative to ordinary matter, which is passive, how does that make any sense? There are not really different phases of matter even in the physical realm. Such was my thinking. That day I also encountered an image in a book of a mouse biting the talon of an owl. The mouse is a sort of spirit messenger, and the owl is the moon-like muse which stands behind it. That night my sister dreamed of a mouse biting her finger, and of it raining because of acidity being anisotropic, which didn't seem to make any sense. Her dream included a couple other related details which I'm leaving out for brevity. I didn't get my usual 'teaching' dream that night, which was highly unusual, but instead just silence and a simple musical image that fit into my sister's dream.

A point that I understood from my sister's dream was that the difference degree of "imbalance" that is said to separate astral from physical matter is more analogous to a difference in valence electrons rather than a difference in kinetic energy. This wasn't something that had occurred to me previously. It is true that many other people might have had a similar dream that same night, with rain and confusion and maybe a mouse biting a finger, and that these dreams would have been part of the same pattern that joined us. But how many would have been trying to relate Greek elements to modern physics that day, and how many would have had the understanding which was in the dream? Very few to none. Her dream specifically connected to my thoughts, irrespective of how many other people's thoughts are connected also. Similarly with a lot of other connected dream experiences.

In my mind, what you said was quite insightful, and it fits with what I described here. But the way you try to restrict what is possible in dream to the scope of your own awareness and understanding is confining and misleading. Yes there are two directions to the subconscious. But those two directions are not exclusive of other directions, so to speak.

Wait a sec, did he mean the female in my dreams or me???

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Hi WakingNomad. I agree I'm pretentious - its a personality feature that I'm stuck with for now. Your manner of wearing ignorance as a badge of honor is pretentious also. So I guess we're in good company. In any case, thanks for your input, I think you make a good point.

Well it's not about being real, i just want to know if this happens to other people, having night stalkers dream walkers etc. I did read in a thread somewhere that it does happen and there is such a thing to happen and people do "learn and train" themselves to do stupid things like these. Guess i got to learn and train as well, i know i am rusty because it's been years since i last fought in dreams and etc. So basically i just wanted an inside story about other peoples experiences like i do, not having people coming here and saying they don't believe or say it's not possible, only because they are entitled on their own beliefs. NOW that i see no one says anything about it, i just have to wait a bit more. Not asking for help though.

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Here's a question for you Hathor...Since no one can tell you whether it is real or not, why does it matter? It obviously only has specific import to you alone, so all we forum posters are doing is giving context to the drama. You dont need us...You want us...but why...and when you read that, you will immediately come up with "the answer" but the truth is there is no answer, only more questions. That is because everything is subjective when you are interacting with other objects/subjects.
If you really want to figure this thing out you need to delve into the dream. Become lucid within this dream and find the answers for yourself, no one here can help you anymore.


oh btw, Waking Nomad, word

we all give what we have, nothing more. We cant give you truth though, that is yours to find. Take some time, like several minutes, and deeply contemplate your feelings about these dreams. Eventually, you will either go full circle or come to a dead end. When that happens, repeat. Each time you will discover something new...

Ok, so I just read the OP's DJ. Not a lot of detail in the dreams for me to work with, and I didn't really see anything to lead me to think it was a shared dream. Or at least not a shared dream with someone skilled at control. I need more details. You say this person can wake you up from the dream, how do they do that?

Just from what I've read in the DJ, I'm leaning towards this being a regular dream. I didn't see any evidence of anyone messing with your attention. Knowing someone is outside waiting to attack does not sound like a shared dream. Sounds like something you are sustaining this dream character by focusing on it. It also sounds like a pattern you are reusing over and over in your dreams.

First rule of dreaming is that everything requires your attention to exist. If it's just a regular dream character, then you should be able to get rid of it by ignoring it.

Thanks for your insight Cusp, but my thread here is only for people who experience dream intrusion from someone else they know in real life or knew. I am not asking questions, i am now seeking others who dealt with this same problem.
And that is only when i know if it is really a dream intrusion by shared dreaming, and heard people out there are training on going to someone's dreams and some are abusing this method.
This isn't JUST a DC i am dealing with, i had to become 2nd party to deal with this person and make them vanish.
Some how no one is investigating my DJ's the way i do because it's my dreams and i know what feelings and senses i get in them, this is not a projection of me or my bad side because i have to deal with this negative person in 2nd party in a dream. How do i really ignore a mad and envious person in my dream? It is impossible to do so, because this person is there to interrupt my dreams and FADE them and make this male i am interacting with disappear whenever i get close. Plus certain telepathic communication also topped the cake with this problem.
Over 7yrs on and off with this experience, this female i see is someone i knew long ago. I never become envious in dreams, and in real life i don't be envious often so why is this something i am forming in my dreams and beating myself up for? Makes no sense whatsoever consciously and subconsciously because i am figuring this stuff out in waking life and not. It's something only i know what is going on, because of my extra ability to read minds. Something probably you didn't think of because you are based more in dreams.
How can i ignore a negative vibe? i never do and never will! I don't let my guard down in dreams, it could be a trick from this dream female to make me ignore and catch me off guard when i do, and when i think she is nothing but a faze. Remember dreams want to trick you (even DC's and people) the more you forget about them the more they come, and the more you are ready the more they hide, or vice versa. My dreams,CUSP is a testing place this is why i want to hear from others if this intrusion for this long is capable when someone you knew HATES you and envys. If no one is capable of having their own experiences like mine then i guess i am the first one having this odd experiences.
In case you didn't know i was a pro in my dreams when it came to DC's.
I do not focus on this female, in waking life and dreams, the only thing i focus on is someone she doesn't WANT me to focus on in dreams or commune with at all is the recurring male i knew long ago in real.
LIKE i said SHE can't run my dreams, i focus on who and what i want! this is what i am trying to tell everyone about this female controlling, intruding, AND coming in my dreams without permission. Whenever i get telepathic meditated communication with this male that's dream sharing in my dreams, she either controls that very dream or make havoc on the next DEILD i get. When 1 person can dream share a 2nd can also, many people can come in dreams, we all just don't know it. But i believe it! And i also believe in abusing dream meetings!

I think i found my answer yet people don't believe this crap! And i can't believe what i just read!!! >Dream Spell? - Magic Forums
http://www.spellsofmagic.com/spells/...2108/page.html If this is all you got to do, then it's easy to do often

I think part of what has been at at play is that there's no clean line between a dream character and a dream intruder.

Originally Posted by hathor28

In case you didn't know i was a pro in my dreams when it came to DC's.

Just out of curiosity, does this imply you have had a gap in your dreaming habits over time?
Im just wondering if this journey in your dreams is like a reconnection with your youth. Perhaps coming at it from that angle would help some. These dreams could be reactions to regret or anxiety related to lost opportunities/irreversible mistakes.

btw. I said we cant help you, which is true but i think we are the only ones that can ever really help ourselves especially when it comes to accepting others.

You could also say that these characters are using a weakness in you and exposing it to infiltrate and do harm. Ironically, the best thing to do in these situations is to stay calm and respond with rational confidence. I say ironic because most people would react by stamping out the intruder. The decisions we make in dreams are metaphors for decisions in life. We do not always make the same choices in dream life versus waking life. This is the wiggle room we have to imagine new possibilities. Using this utility of the imagination, you can do all sorts of cool stuff in dream. The same is true for waking life. Reality is polarity, and truth is a paradox.

You still haven't told me how she makes your dreams fade.

Ok, if she is a dreamer and not a dream character, then ignoring her won't work. But ignoring the things she does will still work. She could drop a sky scraper on your head, and if you are capable of ignoring it, it won't even phase you.

When shared dreaming occurs, each party involved experiences their own unique dream. It doesn't happen on a shared astral or dream plane. You interact with her from within your dream, and your nemesis messes with you from within hers. You are wrong when you say she controls your dream. You are always in complete control of you dream, even in a shared dream, even if you don't realize it. She can't control your dream at all, or hurt you in any way. What she can do however is manipulate your attention to trick you into turning your own dream against yourself.

Likewise, if you want to challenge her, then you need to manipulate her attention. She comes into your dreams because she is focused on you. What you need to do is give her something to distract her, so that she is forced to shift her focus from you to something else. I can't say what will capture her attention, that depends on the individual, but try to come up with something that can't be ignored.

I made a thread on Dream Combat in relation to shared dreaming at some point. Do a search for threads by me with "Dream combat" in the title, that might help. It also doesn't sound like this woman is very skilled at dream control, so familiarizing yourself with the basics should give you a huge advantage. Check out my thread titled "The nature of dream control" in the dream control forum, or any of Mzzck's threads on the subject.

Originally Posted by hathor28

I think i found my answer yet people don't believe this crap! And i can't believe what i just read!!! >Dream Spell? - Magic Forums
http://www.spellsofmagic.com/spells/...2108/page.html If this is all you got to do, then it's easy to do often

BTW, none of the stuff in that spell is necessary. All you need is the intent. I've experimented with trying to insert things into people's dreams from a waking state. I spent hours trying every method I could think of, yet my best result came from doing nothing other than deciding on what I wanted to send. I was tired and told myself I'll do it tomorrow, and had just decided on what I wanted to inject into my target's dream. Afterwards I felt kinda dumb at having wasted so much time putting so much effort into it.

That's not to say that spell wouldn't work. If may even be helpful in focusing your attention on the task at hand, but it's not necessary.

Well i did handle the intruder well after all the disasters she did from my DJ. http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/hath...penings-34677/
The reason why we keep dreaming of each other is meant to be more of a telepathic connection and also the mind has powers to cause the other person to dream and think about the other. It's all about that and also not only 1 side has regret, both sides do, that's the point of all this. It will keep going until we solve it in real life, which will be hard to do because we both moved away and lost contact.
I actually found another thread here about intruding dreams, but it's a different story about my experience. I think what i am going through is actually beyond "beyond dreams". I know no one can help but i am answering people questions here and other peoples doubts of what is going on with me. Many think it's just a projection, when i think it's not. These are not just memories, these are memories all mixed together and it makes one wonder, why is this person here when they never were?
And this last dream i recently had, the person i last time seen didn't drive a car at the time. So one wonders if this is telepathic dreams we both are sharing, despite also telepathic connections in waking life.

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

Just out of curiosity, does this imply you have had a gap in your dreaming habits over time?
Im just wondering if this journey in your dreams is like a reconnection with your youth. Perhaps coming at it from that angle would help some. These dreams could be reactions to regret or anxiety related to lost opportunities/irreversible mistakes.

btw. I said we cant help you, which is true but i think we are the only ones that can ever really help ourselves especially when it comes to accepting others.

You could also say that these characters are using a weakness in you and exposing it to infiltrate and do harm. Ironically, the best thing to do in these situations is to stay calm and respond with rational confidence. I say ironic because most people would react by stamping out the intruder. The decisions we make in dreams are metaphors for decisions in life. We do not always make the same choices in dream life versus waking life. This is the wiggle room we have to imagine new possibilities. Using this utility of the imagination, you can do all sorts of cool stuff in dream. The same is true for waking life. Reality is polarity, and truth is a paradox.

Manipulate her attention, like becoming 2nd party in the dream, right?

Originally Posted by The Cusp

You still haven't told me how she makes your dreams fade.

Ok, if she is a dreamer and not a dream character, then ignoring her won't work. But ignoring the things she does will still work. She could drop a sky scraper on your head, and if you are capable of ignoring it, it won't even phase you.

When shared dreaming occurs, each party involved experiences their own unique dream. It doesn't happen on a shared astral or dream plane. You interact with her from within your dream, and your nemesis messes with you from within hers. You are wrong when you say she controls your dream. You are always in complete control of you dream, even in a shared dream, even if you don't realize it. She can't control your dream at all, or hurt you in any way. What she can do however is manipulate your attention to trick you into turning your own dream against yourself.

Likewise, if you want to challenge her, then you need to manipulate her attention. She comes into your dreams because she is focused on you. What you need to do is give her something to distract her, so that she is forced to shift her focus from you to something else. I can't say what will capture her attention, that depends on the individual, but try to come up with something that can't be ignored.

I made a thread on Dream Combat in relation to shared dreaming at some point. Do a search for threads by me with "Dream combat" in the title, that might help. It also doesn't sound like this woman is very skilled at dream control, so familiarizing yourself with the basics should give you a huge advantage. Check out my thread titled "The nature of dream control" in the dream control forum, or any of Mzzck's threads on the subject.



BTW, none of the stuff in that spell is necessary. All you need is the intent. I've experimented with trying to insert things into people's dreams from a waking state. I spent hours trying every method I could think of, yet my best result came from doing nothing other than deciding on what I wanted to send. I was tired and told myself I'll do it tomorrow, and had just decided on what I wanted to inject into my target's dream. Afterwards I felt kinda dumb at having wasted so much time putting so much effort into it.

That's not to say that spell wouldn't work. If may even be helpful in focusing your attention on the task at hand, but it's not necessary.

Can I be a little rude and interject a thought?

First, this is an excellent thread; kudos to you Hathor for holding it together while the gist of your thread slowly and finally bubbled to the surface! And Cusp, great last post, period. But that's not the thought:

Hathor, forgive me if someone already asked you this, but is there no way you can track this person down in waking life? A renewed physical connection seems the key to this whole thing.

Sorry to interrupt!

Yes i already told about the need for renewed connection while answering chimps questions. Thanks for adding. I think (not sure) i found him in facebook but from the looks of it he doesn't seem to go on facebook or is a fan of it quite much. Been trying all sorts of ways online but it's not working. This is why we both use telepathy connections/communications.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Can I be a little rude and interject a thought?

First, this is an excellent thread; kudos to you Hathor for holding it together while the gist of your thread slowly and finally bubbled to the surface! And Cusp, great last post, period. But that's not the thought:

Hathor, forgive me if someone already asked you this, but is there no way you can track this person down in waking life? A renewed physical connection seems the key to this whole thing.

Sorry to interrupt!

^^ Oh. Okay -- I had a feeling you already discussed, and tried to reach this person; sorry I was too lazy to find that out myself!

I suggest though that you keep up your search. To me this seems, oddly, a waking world issue, and not a dream issue at all.

As a result of this discussion, I'm coming around a little bit more to the 'intruder' interpretation for my own experiences. I still don't think that anyone is consciously interfering with my dreams. However, its almost as if my subconscious is or has a compacted sum of everyone else's thoughts. For example, a few weeks ago I dreamed an iambic poem mocking me for trying to understand my dreams, or expecting that I can find answers to such questions by seeking them. I could interpret that voice as springing from my subconscious, in a conventional psychological sense. But sometimes a thought like that distinguishes itself from the mass of thought a little bit more, so that I can objectively tie it to a specific individual. Its seeming to me that its all the same sort of thing. Most people think that almost any kind of persistent self-examination is pointless, and my internal experience would not be the same if they did not think that. Its as if 'I' am a sum of everyone else, but filtered and focused in a particular way.

Sadly it was both of an issue, if this 3rd party will stop intruding.

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Oh. Okay -- I had a feeling you already discussed, and tried to reach this person; sorry I was too lazy to find that out myself!

I suggest though that you keep up your search. To me this seems, oddly, a waking world issue, and not a dream issue at all.

sounds like you like the intruder

From my DJ you read? no i am just kind-hearted, i don't know the intruder but some how felt sorry. Because the image was cruel-some and anyone could've done this if you had the dream also if it was a girl bounded @ wakingnomad ;D but yes i am known as a hero in dreams and help people. So intruders are bound to take advantage of that.
But if you think this intruder is my dream guy, then no, because i caught an intruder just recent in my dreams trying to trick me again, but didn't work seems like someone is coming in my dreams and knows my dream life good luck to who ever is trying

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

sounds like you like the intruder

I dont believe anyone can intrude dreams or far less share them.
Lucidity is nice stuff but i wouldnt go as far as saying you can share dreams or intrude them
id say it was a projection like everything else in dreams.

If somebody can show me proof that shared dreaming is possible, go ahead.

Originally Posted by LSDgarfield

If somebody can show me proof that shared dreaming is possible, go ahead.

You'd have to want it to be proved to you, in other words you'd have to be willing to let somebody or something into your dream who is capable of doing that. You might also have to be patient and make a lot of choices in that direction, if you've made a lot of incompatible choices previously. Otherwise you're just making an 'if I've covered up my eyes the world doesn't exist' argument.

Whoever says they don't believe in shared dreams and intruders and want proof, means they are blind in dreams and are easily tricked. Now i want to know if that person is going to agree to what i just said I really do investigate my dreams hard core, i want to know to whoever investigates their dreams very hard and say that nothing but subconsciousness lives in dreams.

Originally Posted by hathor28

Whoever says they don't believe in shared dreams and intruders and want proof, means they are blind in dreams and are easily tricked. Now i want to know if that person is going to agree to what i just said I really do investigate my dreams hard core, i want to know to whoever investigates their dreams very hard and say that nothing but subconsciousness lives in dreams.

That, Hathor, is one of the better arguments for shared dreaming I've read in a while!

Oh crap i had to edit my dream a bit, forgot what i had to put there.