Thread: LDs and psychedelics

LDing is far more safe and interesting than drugs. Stay away from drugs. I've seen people die from OD.

Originally Posted by JeffSteel

LDing is far more safe and interesting than drugs. Stay away from drugs. I've seen people die from OD.

that is so stupid. LD and drugs are both interesting but to say LDing is way more interesting than drugs you must know nothing about drugs. what about ayahuasca and dmt?
and if people OD then they were being stupid. yes some drugs are easy to OD from but some drugs are acctualy almost imposible. it would take a garbage bag of magic mushrooms to OD.

Originally Posted by JeffSteel

LDing is far more safe and interesting than drugs. Stay away from drugs. I've seen people die from OD.

People don't overdose from hallucinogens.. You'd have to be trying to OD.

As I said earlier, mushrooms can be designer drugs (or sure pcp) laced on ordinary mushrooms. This makes them a little more dangerous, because read all you want about mushrooms, it will not guarantee that you actual get them and not pcp or any weird random designer acid. The same holds true for LSD. More often than not what is sold as LSD is actually some other designer drug. ??? What! Dishonest drug dealers? Never

No ones fault but your own. Find a reputable person. This more often than not thing you are saying is a load of malarkey. It's not the 80's anymore, if you can't find the real stuff that's your issue, but I can guarantee you, the majority of LSD and Mushrooms around, are the genuine article.

In general "drugs are bad....MmmK?"

In general this saying is bullocks.. mmmk? Abusing drugs is bad, using drugs is not.

Society has somehow.. specified that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Caffeine are GOOD drugs, but everything else is bad.. They'd much rather have a bunch of drunk idiots than introspective hallucinogenics takers.

Man has been engaged in the taking of substances like these for thousands of years, it's only man in his arrogance that he now turns his back.

I have to disagree with Sivason's thought that young people shouldn't do drugs, but its OK if you're older and wiser and have proper guidance. Almost all drug users can see that other drug users are killing themselves with it, but they usually have a weird chemically fueled superiority complex where they imagine they are not like those other people. If through caution and care you succeed in avoiding serious harm, this still doesn't make the drug use beneficial. Its not a very good argument for juggling with knives either, even though some people can get away with it. You have thrived in certain regards despite your drug use, but I still don't hear you describing any benefits that could not have been obtained better without the drugs. It seems like the main thing you've gained is to understand the limits of drug use, so that you can argue with some authority with people who say that you only know what you're talking about if you've used drugs.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Society has somehow.. specified that Alcohol, Tobacco, and Caffeine are GOOD drugs, but everything else is bad

I agree completely....alcohol as a drug is terrible for you also.

Nicotine and caffeine not as much, but they're still self-defeating, and use is myopic. Caffeine users are more enervated and less alert than people who never use it, and likewise for nicotine and calmness.

Of course we are not talking about what should or should not be regulated by law, which is a different question. The question is just whether or not the behavior is a good idea, if you can see what it is, and aren't seeking to be enriched through misfortune.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

They'd much rather have a bunch of drunk idiots than introspective hallucinogenics takers.

I'd rather do without either. But at least with drunks its pretty clear that they don't value their minds. Hallucinogen users seem to be more confused about this. Presumably the value of introspection, as opposed to mere drunkenness, is that you learn or experience something that changes you in a positive way? From my vantagepoint, one of the main effects of hallucinogens is to degrade a person's ability to evaluate the experiences and insights they get. Or maybe that judgment was lacking to start with, but in either case the end is the same. Out of body experiences, timelessness, radically altered sensory perceptions, a transcendent experience of the relationship between 'me' and 'not me', all of this and more is possible without hallucinogenics. But if you don't also guard your power to think and feel objectively, mostly such experiences bring you confusion. Furthermore, the drug-induced experiences apparently don't break any new ground. It looks to me like drug users psychically tap into the existing fruits of other people's efforts and recycle the same stuff over and over again, while imagining that they're discovering something. But their "discoveries" are the same putrid mix of half-truths and garbage that stoners have been spouting since the 60's, and probably for ages before that.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Man has been engaged in the taking of substances like these for thousands of years, it's only man in his arrogance that he now turns his back.

This is classic.

People have been getting drunk for thousands of years too. Is it arrogant to call drunks idiots? Woe to he who arrogantly turns his back on the bottle!

I agree completely....alcohol as a drug is terrible for you also.

You don't agree with me in the slightest, I was pointing out the relationship society has with these drugs compared to other illegal ones. I don't feel alcohol is a terrible drug for you, because it's not true. Once again the specter of overuse and abuse looms it's head and people like yourself try to identify it's misuse with it being terrible for you.

Nicotine and caffeine not as much, but they're still self-defeating, and use is myopic. Caffeine users are more enervated and less alert than people who never use it, and likewise for nicotine and calmness.

Glad to hear you ran so many experiments.

Of course we are not talking about what should or should not be regulated by law, which is a different question. The question is just whether or not the behavior is a good idea, if you can see what it is, and aren't seeking to be enriched through misfortune.

Enriched through misfortune? What sort of nonsense are you trying to peddle? You know what good behavior is? Not abusing drugs, and recognizing the difference between use and abuse. It's not that difficult.

I'd rather do without either.

Sounds like you'd be great to have at a party...

But at least with drunks its pretty clear that they don't value their minds.

Alcoholics and teenagers maybe? Have you spent a lot of time with wine drinkers? Beer aficionados? No? Didn't think so.. Blanket statements are bullshit. Yes we can point to the alcoholics and see a clear problem, but theirs millions more responsible drinkers, that VALUE their minds.

Hallucinogen users seem to be more confused about this.

The only one who seems confused, is yourself.

Presumably the value of introspection, as opposed to mere drunkenness, is that you learn or experience something that changes you in a positive way? From my vantagepoint, one of the main effects of hallucinogens is to degrade a person's ability to evaluate the experiences and insights they get.

"From my vantage point as someone who knows nothing about drugs, hallucinogenics, or humanity, I think I'll make something nonsensical up about degrading a person's ability to evaluate the experiences and insights they get without any evidence or experience in said experiences.

Or maybe that judgment was lacking to start with, but in either case the end is the same.

That you are talking out of your ass?

Out of body experiences, timelessness, radically altered sensory perceptions, a transcendent experience of the relationship between 'me' and 'not me', all of this and more is possible without hallucinogenics.

And most "lay" people have the time to dedicate themselves to meditation, yoga, etc to attain these experiences? No one's arguing that it's not possible without, though I highly doubt most people will be able to master a level of meditation that allows them to trip. It's highly doubtful.

But if you don't also guard your power to think and feel objectively, mostly such experiences bring you confusion.

More nonsense words inserted here about confusion, it seems your the master of sowing those seeds yourself. Every persons trip is personal, blanket meaningless statements about experiences you have no experience in just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about, which by coincidence I'm sure you don't....

Furthermore, the drug-induced experiences apparently don't break any new ground.

This is highly false. Every time an individual experiences something for the first time, they break ground. Not everyone is on the precipice of igniting change in the universe, many young souls are still on the beginning of their journey.

It looks to me like drug users psychically tap into the existing fruits of other people's efforts and recycle the same stuff over and over again

This is what we call learning, repetition is the father of learning after all. Drinking of others fruits and the sharing of experiences, is as old as the human experience itself.. Tapping into others efforts or the "universal mind", or the "collective unconscious" is how we evolve as a social species. Aquarian, drink from the cup as it overflows us all.

while imagining that they're discovering something.

If two people pre-internet both learn about evolution at the same time, being the first.. one in Africa and one in North America.. do they both not discover something? If someone doesn't currently have the knowledge, do they not discover something individually for themselves?

But their "discoveries" are the same putrid mix of half-truths and garbage that stoners have been spouting since the 60's, and probably for ages before that.

Yeah.. fuck that peace and love man.. it's a bunch of garbage.. Hey look at me I don't do drugs, I'm so much cooler I must diss hippies.. it's the cool thing to do.

This is classic.

Indeed, your behavior is classic of an out of touch member of society..

People have been getting drunk for thousands of years too. Is it arrogant to call drunks idiots?

Yes it is. Unless someone is acting a fool, being an idiot than yes it's pretty arrogant.. as their are millions more responsible "Drunks" than irresponsible ones..

Woe to he who arrogantly turns his back on the bottle!

You can turn your back on human history, in solitude away from the evil chemicals that already fill your body.



Instead I'll...

Fly towards the Sun... not to close now... don't want to burn those wings. You'll live life in mundane reality, I'll live life in between.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

They'd much rather have a bunch of drunk idiots than introspective hallucinogenics takers.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Blanket statements are bullshit.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Is it arrogant to call drunks idiots?

Yes it is. Unless someone is acting a fool, being an idiot than yes it's pretty arrogant.. as their are millions more responsible "Drunks" than irresponsible ones..

I was inquiring about your apparently sweeping characterization of alcohol users. I can see that there's a lot of different ways a person can parse that though, for instance you might consider them to be drunk idiots not because they drink to excess but because they don't use hallucinogens.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Have you spent a lot of time with wine drinkers? Beer aficionados? No? Didn't think so..

I said that alcohol as a drug is terrible for you, which excludes anyone not using it as a drug. And I furthermore said that drunks don't value their minds, which excludes anyone using alcohol temperately for a drug effect. But for any wine drinkers and beer aficionados who can be fairly characterized as "drunks", I was including them. (When I say they don't value their minds, I should qualify that by saying they don't value them with sufficient strength to stop drinking. All people are of course under a lot of different pressures, internal and external, and are all in one sense or another doing the best that they can.)

Actually I have spent a lot of time not only with wine drinkers and beer aficionados, but with alcoholics, potheads, acid heads, and heroin users. These have been close friends and we have talked openly and extensively about our experiences.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I was inquiring about your apparently sweeping characterization of alcohol users. I can see that there's a lot of different ways a person can parse that though, for instance you might consider them to be drunk idiots not because they drink to excess but because they don't use hallucinogens.

Their drunk idiots because their drunk idiots. Not because of the alcohol, but because they aren't mature and/or smart enough to drink to a normal amount. I drink on occasion myself, I don't get hammered and wake up in a field unaware of my last nights escapade.

I said that alcohol as a drug is terrible for you, which excludes anyone not using it as a drug.

Come again? The only way to use alcohol, not as a drug in my experience is to cook with it.(and other types of non-consumption alcohols) People who drink wine and beer, but not to excess are still using it as a drug...

They are just not ABUSING it.

And I furthermore said that drunks don't value their minds, which excludes anyone using alcohol temperately for a drug effect. But for any wine drinkers and beer aficionados who can be fairly characterized as "drunks", I was including them. (When I say they don't value their minds, I should qualify that by saying they don't value them with sufficient strength to stop drinking. All people are of course under a lot of different pressures, internal and external, and are all in one sense or another doing the best that they can.)

Maybe addiction is something you don't understand. I don't believe the reason alcoholics become alcoholics is because they don't value their mind, but something far more complicated.

Actually I have spent a lot of time not only with wine drinkers and beer aficionados, but with alcoholics, potheads, acid heads, and heroin users. These have been close friends and we have talked openly and extensively about our experiences.

Doesn't sound like you actively listened to anything anyone said to you.

Almost all drug users can see that other drug users are killing themselves with it, but they usually have a weird chemically fueled superiority complex where they imagine they are not like those other people.

Nothing like holding yourself in your own superiority complex where you're superiority derives from your sobriety... Because all drug users are killing themselves man... those stoners are slowly slowly eating themselves to death on snack foods and writing novels like Cosmos. MANNNN

DUDE

There are other reasons drugs are not a shortcut, like numbing of the mind, or the fact that hallucinations by definition are false, and thus aren't much of an aid to introspection.

You do realize this is all false right? So what's the difference?

Saying the majority is genuine, does not help those who get the 'minority' bad drugs. Find a reputable person? Sure, that makes sense if you happen to be well informed and part of the rainbow family, but does nothing for the random 14 year old in Kansas.

Fourteen-Year olds have no reason to be looking for drugs and I could care less about their ability to access them. And one does not need to be a member of the "rainbow family" to find high quality goods. It's really not that difficult. A fine place to start would be any music festival, ever. Or I don't know friends?

You are right that the majority of mushrooms are real (some are pcp though)

Can you explain how a mushroom becomes PCP? Do you know what PCP looks like? At some point you might want to question yourself and ask why you have some shitaki mushrooms covered in a whiteish powder.

.. will finish edit so wait

but the fact is that many various drugs get put on paper and sold as 'acid'. Acid does not always mean LSD, and who knows what the drug is.

Well seeing as how most drugs can't actually be put on paper, what you usually get is LSD..

Perhaps using a drug is not bad, but abusing it is. However, many drugs have 'abuse potential' that is off the chart. That is, if we give the drug to a bunch of people, how many will end up abusing it. Crack is a good example. It is easy to say 'just use a little' but if you gave it to primitive people, many would end up crack fiends.

Abuse potential? Just like everything in life.. Sex, food, drugs, video games, novels, movies... Do you really mean ... that just like everything else in life.. it can be overused and abused? No way man. Crack is great, I love it look at my teeth bro.. It's almost like.. this discussion was about how introspective crack makes you... I always smoke crack and contemplate the universe man.

As a society we must warn the youth of the risk drugs can pose. Only a youth (in body or mental status) would make pro-drug rants, while failing to warn of the dark side of the story. If you feel there is no dark side, then just give it some time, and you will see friends ruined or killed.

Lol what? Assumption prone are we? No one said anything of the sort. Seen more than you know.

I am assuming you are about 20 years old, give or take 3 years.

Wrong, try again.

Correct me if I am wrong. When I was that age it may have been me expressing thoughts like you have.

So even back than you didn't know what you were talking about?

At that age neither of my two best friend had yet ended up in prison, my first girlfriend had not yet smashed up someones car with a hammer. One of my best friends had not yet gone baserck in a coffee house and been subdued by a swat team. Give it time and it will show a dark side.

Will you please give your speeches to someone who isn't approaching his 30's, K thanks. I know what DRUG ABUSE can do, thank you.. Which is why I.. I started this discussion with the difference between USE and ABUSE.. something most of the public, yourself included have trouble grasping.

Ask why anyone would proclaim pro-drug retoric? Another thing you learn with time and after meeting enough A.A or N.A. people is the idea of 'defending the stash' where you have a knee jerk reaction to any one saying anything that may imply you should not use the drug.

I have an alcoholic ex-best friend, thanks. Why would anyone proclaim pro-drug speech, I don't know maybe because they know how to use their cognitive functions to think for themselves instead of relying on the 40+ years of misinformation and paranoia surrounding drugs, where we pretend that Marijuana is more dangerous than Heroin.

Another thing you apparently don't learn with time.. is that assumptions make you look stupid. Yep.

Nothing like out of touch people......

When I was that age... Even though I have no fucking clue what age you are because.. I never asked.. but instead of assuming your pushing your 30's I'll assume your fresh out of high school, cause god forbid anyone made it through adolescence without a hatred for substances... because of peoples mistakes.



/Sarcasm Throughout.


Only youth, in body or spirit, soul or otherwise.. would make an anti-drug rant.... Because with true experience and many soul incarnations, you start to realize that life, the universe and everything isn't a black and white canvas, but one of colors and many greys. All drugs are not the same and can not be discussed, intelligently when they are all classified as simply drugs. Marijuana is not crack. With true experience and contemplation one can begin to understand the heart of the matter lies in the individual, not in the substance. Good luck on your journey, you're gonna need it.

Probably seen more peoples lives ruined than you ever have, but hey.. lets be all high and mighty.

-Minus the high, don't want to be stoned and possibly enjoying yourself after all.. Addicts must mean everyone has a drug problem.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

No ones fault but your own. Find a reputable person. This more often than not thing you are saying is a load of malarkey. It's not the 80's anymore, if you can't find the real stuff that's your issue, but I can guarantee you, the majority of LSD and Mushrooms around, are the genuine article.





In general this saying is bullocks.. mmmk? Abusing drugs is bad, using drugs is not.

Saying the majority is genuine, does not help those who get the 'minority' bad drugs. Find a reputable person? Sure, that makes sense if you happen to be well informed and part of the rainbow family, but does nothing for the random 14 year old in Kansas. You are right that the majority of mushrooms are real (some are pcp though) but the fact is that many various drugs get put on paper and sold as 'acid'. Acid does not always mean LSD, and who knows what the drug is.


Perhaps using a drug is not bad, but abusing it is. However, many drugs have 'abuse potential' that is off the chart. That is, if we give the drug to a bunch of people, how many will end up abusing it. Crack is a good example. It is easy to say 'just use a little' but if you gave it to primitive people, many would end up crack fiends. As a society we must warn the youth of the risk drugs can pose. Only a youth (in body or mental status) would make pro-drug rants, while failing to warn of the dark side of the story. If you feel there is no dark side, then just give it some time, and you will see friends ruined or killed.

I am assuming you are about 20 years old, give or take 3 years. Correct me if I am wrong. When I was that age it may have been me expressing thoughts like you have. At that age neither of my two best friend had yet ended up in prison, my first girlfriend had not yet smashed up someones car with a hammer. One of my best friends had not yet gone baserck in a coffee house and been subdued by a swat team. Give it time and it will show a dark side. Ask why anyone would proclaim pro-drug retoric? Another thing you learn with time and after meeting enough A.A or N.A. people is the idea of 'defending the stash' where you have a knee jerk reaction to any one saying anything that may imply you should not use the drug.








Shadowofwind, reread what I wrote. there was no positive message that people who were older AND had an experienced guide 'should' use drugs. Simply that the last people who should try it are teens, and those with no guidence, which certainly does not mean any one should do it. Just, some people especially need to avoid it.