Tulpa,Dream Characters and OBE thoughts

[DawnEye11]

*Sorry if they don't make sense I just wanted to write some thoughts down. Feel free to comment but do so in a respectful manner please. So according to a definition in a website a Tulpa is suppose to be a being that is created through sheer mental discipline. I've also read many times about people with their tulpa on the tulpa forums. I find them interesting and it makes me think about how if the brain can do this than of course it is possible that certain characters in dreams which seem like real people or spirit guides could just be the brain creating a character like that but in a faster way. So how could you really tell if it was the real deal or not? I' don't really believe in spirit guides, shared dreams is what i'm mostly interested in, but receiving info that has external proof in our world is a good way to tell if its the real deal. Thinking about it a bit more, is a Tulpa really the same as an imaginary friend? In my opinion somewhat but there is a difference. Children who have imaginary friends don't have to force their imaginary friends to appear. Even those who were born with a mental problem where they hallucinate characters don't have to force. So if your forcing yourself to see a character over a period of time how would the brain be changing in order for you to see them is what I would like to know. Even if those who do make tulpas claim that they don't have bad side effects from it there has to be some changes to their brain that could allow them to actually see, feel, and hear their tulpas. If this is so is it really a good change? I sort of have a tulpa but only in mind voice form that I've had for a couple of years. I won't say how it formed but it was back when i knew nothing about tulpa and don't worry. Its not from a mental problem/disorder. Anyways I've found that it can respond to me when I'm in a OBE type of dream or just a regular lucid dream. This is interesting to me because it sort of provides me with the thought about how if OBE is the real deal than why can you still hear that voice? Of course I'm still alive and my brain is fully functioning is pretty much the answer to that but if you tried waking up a person who is having an OBE wouldn't they still wake up rather quickly? Thinking about how connected the body is to the brain makes me think that shared dreaming and OBE is most likely not taking place in a different dimension but is a mind thing. If you believe in God than think about it some more. Do you pray with the hopes that your words materialize and reach God through flight or do you just feel that you have that instant connection?

[JadeGreen]

Hmm... well here is my $0.02. So from my knowledge, A Tulpa is basically an imaginary friend, created for any variety of reasons. I know some people create them for companionship, some create them for problem solving or creativity reasons and some create them for *ahem* other reasons. hyeahbaby: To answer the question, I do not think that creation of a Tulpa is a mental disorder of any sort, no matter how far it goes. I know as a kid, I had few friends until high school and therefore made some imaginary ones to fill the void. I know that many other kids that I knew made up characters. I think that it is actually a natural reaction to a lack of social interaction; you don't have enough real people to interact with, so your brain looks for a way to fill that need, and therefore you create an imaginary friend (or several) to fill in the void. I remember when I was a kid, I created an Imaginary friend named Commander-212. He was a Clone Trooper commander who would protect me from bullies and help me with my homework. (Don't laugh, I was 8-11 years old...) I had an image of what he looked like in my head, short brown hair and a scar over one eye, and blue and gray clone trooper armor with lots of battle damage. I usually only projected an image of him in my head when I was alone to avoid judgement. But I would talk with him mentally all the time and we would go on day dream adventures and fight evils that were analogous to my waking life problems. Most of my interaction with him was inside of day dreams, though occasionally I would imagine him in the real world and talk out loud to him. It was just the way I worked things out. About three years after creating him, I decided I didn't like him anymore, and I had made real friends. The part that I remember, that was actually sort of scary was that I started pushing him away, and I actually got an emotional reaction of betrayal and frustration from until the character. I couldn't control him and sometimes he would yell at me out of the blue and I had to tell him to be quiet and go away. Eventually the character vanished. It was strange how he took on a personality after awhile. When he started out I felt like I was just speaking through him, and most of his replies sounded default and per-programed, and he would usually just respond with things like "Yes, Sir." But in time, I sort of taught him social interaction and he became a lot more like a big brother who interacted more like a real person, and I was less in control of him (Though still in control to an extent). I know after awhile his name changed to just 212, then just Two, because he was a sort of second me. The one other moment with Two that I remember was the time that (during one of our adventures) he was stabbed by a giant mantis monster and nearly died. I actually became very emotional during this time, fearing that I would not be able to bring back my friend that I had created. I guess what Commander 212 was an example of someone that I created because I wanted to. He never appeared in my dreams, once. So the other character that I think is important to this discussion is everybody's favorite, Manei. It's kind of funny how she was the exact opposite to Two in just about every way. (I think Manei is more of an example of a guide rather than a Tulpa for the following reasons) For one, Manei exists almost completely in the dream-plane. Second, Manei was not temporary, having first been spotted when I was about 6 years old, and is now still going strong. Even more important is the fact that I feel like I have absolutely no control over her, like I did when I created Two. I feel like she is a separate entity, just like another real person. She seemed to assume control over how she wanted to look and act, taking my ideas only as suggestions rather than orders. As such, she is not exactly what I want neither in terms of appearance or behavior. She also decided upon her own name, something that Two did not. Manei has very rarely had an impact on WL. I very rarely hear her sometimes talk while meditating or during quiet times, I will, in her voice hear her ask "Jade...?". (As if she is asking if I am there; she calls me Jade even thought that is not my real name.) The first few times this happened (about a year and a half ago) It really surprised and confused me, but I got used to it after awhile. I theorize that this may be because I fall into a microsleep (a real scientific phenomenon, look it up.) I generally just ignore this since I usually just hear my name and no discernible information or instructions, and I tried a couple of times to have a prolonged conversation with her while a wake. (While meditating and while alone but not meditating.) However the voice I hear is generally confined to just those few random fragments that I occasionally hear. I hear her sometimes while falling asleep as well. So in my opinion these represent two very different cases. One of a Tulpa/Imaginary Friend and one of a Guide, showing their differences. Though having reached the end of this, I realize it is not constructive to the discussion in any way, but rather just a senseless ramble about my experience. Sorry.

[DawnEye11]

I do not think that creation of a Tulpa is a mental disorder of any sort, no matter how far it goes. I don't consider it a mental disorder but I find it strange. Mostly the hallucination and possession part of it. To let something take control of you, and to see something that your normally not suppose to see. Could it really be something we are suppose to choose to see or make? However, I know not all tulpa creators do the possession thing but still. haha The word glitch just popped up into my head. Like in a game where you find something thats not suppose to be there but it just happens in a sort of funny, interesting way. Perhaps Tulpas are sort of like the glitches in life. I couldn't control him and sometimes he would yell at me out of the blue and I had to tell him to be quiet and go away. Eventually the character vanished. Yeah, if you think about it negatively it will bother you.But Its a good thing it can leave if you ignore it. ^^ having first been spotted when I was about 6 years old Wow, that was a long time ago. Its nice that you still have her appearing in your dreams. The first few times this happened (about a year and a half ago) It really surprised and confused me, but I got used to it after awhile. I theorize that this may be because I fall into a microsleep (a real scientific phenomenon, look it up.) Oh, I've never heard of that before. Guess I learned something new today. So in my opinion these represent two very different cases. One of a Tulpa/Imaginary Friend and one of a Guide, showing their differences. Though having reached the end of this, I realize it is not constructive to the discussion in any way, but rather just a senseless ramble about my experience. Sorry. lol xD No need to apologize. It was a good read and it did relate to the topic of what I was thinking about.

[Wisher]

Wow what interesting ideas! I never thought about God as a Tulpa or DC, is that why you mentioned him? Maybe in the same way that JadeGreen was feeling betrayal from Two, we can feel blessings or otherwise from a God we truly believe in. It is possible that DCs that have full control are like parts of our psyche we allow sentience. Maybe even the opposite is true and we are DCs because another dreamer has allowed us sentience. But what if we remove the duality? All is one. If you are fully Two and JadeGreen and Maeni then what is it that 'controls the dream'? Its interesting, it seems like there is a spectrum to 'realness' that goes like this: 1-3: vague image or feeling like a daydream 3-6: strong impressions like fears of the future or ideas of what will happen tomorrow 7-8: True sensations like schizophrenic hallucinations, hypnogogic images, or vivid sensory hallucinations of any kind 9-10 actual immersion in an experience like a lucid dream or waking reality Tulpas seem to fall lower on the scale where as DCs are higher on the scale according to what I've heard of them so far

[DawnEye11]

No. I don't think of God as a tulpa. I meant that we talk to God through our mind voice or talking out loud and expect him to hear us. Like a form of telepathic communication. Maybe even the opposite is true and we are DCs because another dreamer has allowed us sentience. I don't see us the same as DC because our world is more stable than a dream world. But what if we remove the duality? All is one. If you are fully Two and JadeGreen and Maeni then what is it that 'controls the dream'? Hmm. i don't see us as being more than one person. I think everyone is their own person. But its interesting how the mind can allow such characters to exist in our dreaming world. The dreaming mind obviously can control the dream even when were non lucid but the surprise is definitely when your lucid. 1-3: vague image or feeling like a daydream 3-6: strong impressions like fears of the future or ideas of what will happen tomorrow 7-8: True sensations like schizophrenic hallucinations, hypnogogic images, or vivid sensory hallucinations of any kind 9-10 actual immersion in an experience like a lucid dream or waking reality I sort of agree with this scale.Not sure though because I don't have schizophrenia but why is waking reality and lucid dream on the same level? I think lucid dream should be below waking reality but that's because even when it feels real you can still tell its a dream. Tulpas seem to fall lower on the scale where as DCs are higher on the scale according to what I've heard of them so far That's interesting. I would have thought that tulpas would have been higher. Thanks for commenting your thoughts Wisher!

[Wisher]

I didn't mean anyone was schitz but the perception of realness schitz people experience is really high. I have experienced some strong hallucinations before. Like when I have a hypnogogic hallucination that I am falling, my body really feels like it is falling even though I am just sitting in a chair. Thats why I put them on the same level And yea I made that scale in like 30 seconds XD just a rough guesstimation. How do you think the mind allows other DCs into our dreams?

[DawnEye11]

Oh okay. That makes sense. I don't know the science of it. But the mind probably just sends signals to the dreaming part of the brain to include other characters and when to keep them. ^^"

[Wisher]

Sorry if I ask too many questions, But do you think, for example, Dawn Eye has his own brain? Does his brain make the same signal for him to be allowed into your mind? I'm very interested in learning different views

[DawnEye11]

That is a good question. My brain knows everything about Eye and Dawn. Even certain things i'm not aware of. So since it has that memory stored in my brain it probably just receives info from that part of it and sends it to my dreaming mind. Unlike other dream characters my brain knows more about them so they don't act like those stupid dream characters. But even so, if my brain is doing this I have to ask myself why. Is the dreaming mind just made to create, entertain or to teach in a programmed manner? Or is it getting on a level where it wants to understand what we want?

[Wisher]

That would be interesting if the dreaming mind is trying to understand what we want. It almost starts to sound like the goal is to build a relationship with the dreaming mind. To understand it like a good friend even. It would be good to get to know the dreaming mind in the same way. I really like that view How would someone befriend something as intangible as the dreaming mind? Of course the other idea is that it is just for entertainment. What do you think of that option?

[DawnEye11]

^^ Yeah, It has its good points.Well, since the dreaming mind is apart of us but something we can't fully control or understand at times, we can start by trying to understand what it is trying to show us and asking questions. Its purpose can be for entertainment but if you dig down deeper it seems like its real purpose is to support/benefit us in a way.