Thread: OBE from the hypnagogic sensations stage!!

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello VinceField

I have read this statement of yours many times now trying to understand how I presented my thoughts as unquestionable fact.

You did so the moment you made the claim that any interpretation of these experiences aside from your own is wrong. Essentially, any time one states a belief without including the phrases "I believe..," "It seems...," "In my opinion...," "According to my understanding/experience/knowledge...," etc, it comes across as being a statement of fact. I don't believe it is wise to assume that one's experiences in alternate states of consciousness are more valid than another's. One can boast of having thousands or millions or billions of experiences, but quality is more important than quantity. As an example from your own posts, you've stated that it took over 100 OBEs before you could even move an inch in the out-of-body state. By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc. I say this not as a claim of superiority, but as a way to put into perspective the numbers and figures you have been throwing about and the relative unimportance of them. I'm totally fine with you having a different and unique perspective. I am simply advising to take better care of the way you present this perspective, as I believe it will benefit both yourself and those who listen to your words. Take care.

Um:

Originally Posted by VinceField

... By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc.

Shouldn't there have been a "what I believe to be a" inserted somewhere, maybe between "obtained" and "plethora?"

Sorry; I couldn't resist!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Um:



Shouldn't there have been a "what I believe to be a" inserted somewhere, maybe between "obtained" and "plethora?"

Sorry; I couldn't resist!

Haha yes, perhaps all of my experiences and insights have been elaborate deceptions and delusions! I honestly can't rule it out. But while we're at it, I might as well plug in the expression a bunch more, maybe before "100th OBE," as perhaps they have all been ultra-realistic dreams that I've been fooled into thinking were something else. Might as well put it before "I" as well, as perhaps my conception of my very identity and sense of self is completely wrong! I do acknowledge that my experiences and insights may not be what they seem, but in this case I don't think acknowledging that adds much of benefit for anyone. In a sense, everything we say is based in belief, as it doesn't seem to be possible from an unenlightened human perspective to know for sure that there is absolutely no deception or delusion taking place on some scale. I think it's most important to make beliefs clear when giving advice or stating information that can be applied in some way by others, either in a practical sense or in a way that contributes to the formation and modification of one's belief system.

But yes, yes, you caught me! Nothing like a taste of one's own medicine, eh?

Originally Posted by VinceField

You did so the moment you made the claim that any interpretation of these experiences aside from your own is wrong. Essentially, any time one states a belief without including the phrases "I believe..," "It seems...," "In my opinion...," "According to my understanding/experience/knowledge...," etc, it comes across as being a statement of fact. I don't believe it is wise to assume that one's experiences in alternate states of consciousness are more valid than another's. One can boast of having thousands or millions or billions of experiences, but quality is more important than quantity. As an example from your own posts, you've stated that it took over 100 OBEs before you could even move an inch in the out-of-body state. By my 100th OBE I had already obtained a plethora of experience and knowledge regarding the nature of my self, Higher Self, God, reality, the mechanics of nonphysical reality, etc. I say this not as a claim of superiority, but as a way to put into perspective the numbers and figures you have been throwing about and the relative unimportance of them. I'm totally fine with you having a different and unique perspective. I am simply advising to take better care of the way you present this perspective, as I believe it will benefit both yourself and those who listen to your words. Take care.

Hello vincefield

Again we are not talking of the same obes the ones you gained so much experience in these are simple in the mind experiences and there is nothing in the words you say that I hadn't done during that same number of experiences I just did not come to the same conclusions as you did about them. In the mind astral experiences are not obes, this is what the problem is all about. Like I said if you want those flaky astral experiences then do what you are doing, I will stick to my definition of obe. Is this confusing for you? An obe is in the real in this world in and around the things you see around you. An obe is an out of body experience not an in the mind experience as you are having and explaining in your belief of finding god, higher self, and reality.

As for how I stated these thoughts you can choose to believe what you want. I have seen and know how they are done, I am only informing you of this. Like any information you can disregard it or you can try and confirm it or you can ignore it, it's your choice. I do however know that what I am saying is 100 percent accurate I have left it open for others though to try and figure it out. Now this last statement is fact and I am stating it as such. In your statements above you say you found all these things and are stating this also as fact I do not see, I believe.., it seems..., in my opinion..

Powessy

Originally Posted by powessy

Hello vincefield

Again we are not talking of the same obes the ones you gained so much experience in these are simple in the mind experiences and there is nothing in the words you say that I hadn't done during that same number of experiences I just did not come to the same conclusions as you did about them. In the mind astral experiences are not obes, this is what the problem is all about. Like I said if you want those flaky astral experiences then do what you are doing, I will stick to my definition of obe. Is this confusing for you? An obe is in the real in this world in and around the things you see around you. An obe is an out of body experience not an in the mind experience as you are having and explaining in your belief of finding god, higher self, and reality.

As for how I stated these thoughts you can choose to believe what you want. I have seen and know how they are done, I am only informing you of this. Like any information you can disregard it or you can try and confirm it or you can ignore it, it's your choice. I do however know that what I am saying is 100 percent accurate I have left it open for others though to try and figure it out. Now this last statement is fact and I am stating it as such. In your statements above you say you found all these things and are stating this also as fact I do not see, I believe.., it seems..., in my opinion..

Powessy

You are assuming that the nature of our experiences is somehow different based on essentially no evidence, as I haven't described any of my experiences, simply stated what I've discovered through them. My own experiences began with what you call "OBEs" and eventually evolved to higher dimensions, what many call the "astral," and perhaps even higher. In my experience, it is a mistake to say that these are entirely different types of experiences, as my experience has shown that one is simply a progression of the other, in a different location in the spectrum of consciousness. Of course, it's hard to say exactly "where" you are, except there are divine qualities present in higher dimensions that are absent in lower ones, and there are differing characteristics of one's consciousness depending on the type of experience (RTZ, higher astral, mental, etc).

In my many experiences in the real-time zone, or what you call OBE or the "real world" (actually a reflection of the real world or a nonphysical energetic copy and not the actual physical dimension itself), I've had very few significant experiences, while I've had my share of really mind-blowing and transformative experiences in higher dimensions, what you call "mind experiences," which are anything but "flaky," but rather have made a lasting impression. In my opinion based on my experience, what you call "OBEs" are just as likely to be "mind experiences" as any other type of conscious projection into nonphysical reality.

The fact that you've created such distinct and rigid definitions will likely prove to be more of a limitation than anything else. I would guess that you wouldn't be willing to admit that you may be being deceived by these "shadows" and your perceptions and interpretations are not actually accurate reflection of the reality of the situation. I'm not saying this is the case, but it must remain open as a possibility if one is to be intellectually honest and open minded when one is lacking the undeniable evidence needed to eliminate the possibility. I don't believe it is wise to convince oneself of knowing anything relating to these experiences as an absolute fact. But regardless, I hope everything works out for you and you find what you're looking for out there.

Originally Posted by VinceField

You are assuming that the nature of our experiences is somehow different based on essentially no evidence, as I haven't described any of my experiences, simply stated what I've discovered through them. My own experiences began with what you call "OBEs" and eventually evolved to higher dimensions, what many call the "astral," and perhaps even higher. In my experience, it is a mistake to say that these are entirely different types of experiences, as my experience has shown that one is simply a progression of the other, in a different location in the spectrum of consciousness. Of course, it's hard to say exactly "where" you are, except there are divine qualities present in higher dimensions that are absent in lower ones, and there are differing characteristics of one's consciousness depending on the type of experience (RTZ, higher astral, mental, etc).

In my many experiences in the real-time zone, or what you call OBE or the "real world" (actually a reflection of the real world or a nonphysical energetic copy and not the actual physical dimension itself), I've had very few significant experiences, while I've had my share of really mind-blowing and transformative experiences in higher dimensions, what you call "mind experiences," which are anything but "flaky," but rather have made a lasting impression. In my opinion based on my experience, what you call "OBEs" are just as likely to be "mind experiences" as any other type of conscious projection into nonphysical reality.

The fact that you've created such distinct and rigid definitions will likely prove to be more of a limitation than anything else. I would guess that you wouldn't be willing to admit that you may be being deceived by these "shadows" and your perceptions and interpretations are not actually accurate reflection of the reality of the situation. I'm not saying this is the case, but it must remain open as a possibility if one is to be intellectually honest and open minded when one is lacking the undeniable evidence needed to eliminate the possibility. I don't believe it is wise to convince oneself of knowing anything relating to these experiences as an absolute fact. But regardless, I hope everything works out for you and you find what you're looking for out there.

Hello vincefield

You do not have to describe any of your experiences to me to tell me what kind of experience you are having. I have had these conversations on so many sites and I have read so many experiences to place you in this category, of in mind experiences. You have never had an "obe" by my definition, if you did, you would be saying something completely different. Tell me how are your experiences of late? You have two different types of experiences and you are bypassing the first type obe. You will some day die and in those few minutes after, you will finally see what I am talking about, and on that day when you think you are going into some higher realm you will be sucked into your higher mind and will become nothing inside of it. I have played in the higher realms since a kid and that was thirty years ago and have seen every possible scenario. You have lead your own mind to continue escalating your experiences as what you wanted them to be and not what they are. You keep asking the wrong questions and keep doing things by your inability to understand things. Have you ever entered into your experience not asking to see something and just see what is there.

I will believe those that I have been with in these places and those that are helping me understand this. Why would I consider listening to anyone here that has no clue to anything after this. I Talk with discarnate entities daily they lie and try to trick me all the time but I see them in these places as I just become them in these in the mind experiences. My voices change every minute as new ones are removed form one thing and placed into another during this process they become themselves to type this letter right now " hello vince we are the ones powessy talks to yes we lie to figure things out. We need to lie to keep him form ever becoming himself inside of himself but he just becomes himself all the time we do not understand things that you talk about but believe he is not here to talk to you but to find them he will continue to argue with you as long as they come here to him. We need to ask you how did you become yourself inside of yourself and find yourself again in death do you even understand these thoughts he is trying to explain to you?

Now I hear this all day long this is the higher minds of thousands of souls brought here form many worlds to solve a problem. They are knotted together and are in every allowed soul on this planet including you. They are those people you find in your in mind experiences the ones you think are on higher levels. they also build all these fantastic realities and lies for you to fly around in. Your understanding is preschool at best. Do you think this thread gets attention as we are going back and forth on this topic, on this forum? What infuriates you so? I have rigid beliefs but what else is causing you so much grief and turmoil? A christian is locked into their faith in religion and they base their beliefs in god as a fact, but not one thing has ever been proven not one word in the bible. The obe beliefs you hold are so similar to the thinking of a good christian.

And yes I am finding many of the things I have been looking for, thanks to you.

Powessy