My OBEs suck..

[mimihigurashi]

I need some advice from an experienced out of body traveler please. I can hardly believe I'm saying this but, OBEs suck. I mean mine certainly do, and I know that's not the norm, but I don't know how to change it. Now that I began being able to do it more often, I just can't find or do anything interesting or useful. I can fly around and drive cars and crash into shit but that's about it. My non-physical room and house are deserted, I never see anyone like me, the only people I see are normal people you would see walking down the street physically, most of them don't see or ignore me, and the few that do seem to acknowledge my presence get really nervous about it and try to avoid me. Pretty sure I don't look like a demon so don't know why that is. I did like some people recommended and tried to find my spirit/dream guide with ridiculous results. Half the time it was phonies, posers telling me to stop OBEing or else I might die. The other times it was random nonsensical crap. This morning I literally spent 10 minutes there trying to find something interesting to do and failed, everything sucked. I also seem to have much less control over the world than during normal lucid dreams. How can I make my travels actually interesting? Are there any techniques, tricks, or anything I can do to have better experiences? p.s. please no debates, if you think these are all "just dreams", fine, but please don't spam this thread with debates, I'm just looking for some help if possible, thanks.

[Psionik]

I experience this for as long as I do OBE. More than 30 years. From time to time I find some responsive being. I tried to wake up some people but the results were unsatisfactory. Sometimes they started to perceive me, but started to cry with fear. Paradoxically the most perceptive were devill like beings. I found that the higher level of astral the less beings I met. I managed to call a guide only once- he started to laugh crazily... and then he ran away. I have some theories as to why it is this way... You are probably on much higher level of consciousness than beings you are meeting. Beings are maybe representations of physical beings. Maybe even animals. (Maybe we see a astral avatar of physical being moving in astral, being which is currently human... maybe even animal or plant. But since those beings are not used to travel they are unconscious there.) Hmmm... I saw actual animal looking being in astral only a few times. Low control of astral comes with unattached observer state of mind. I'm not sure which state of mind you are used to be while traveling... I don't know what to do against this. I try to travel as much without imagination as I'm able to... I travel in the state of more or less unattached observer... If I tried to use imagination then I feel change of the state of mind... something like diving down to lower consciousness, to imagination- which is undesirable for me. I don't think that what you are experiencing is just a dream(even if it is possible ) I have very similar experiences. What I have written will not help you... But do you feel you are on wrong way? I used to... But I found that it is only way there is. If you want experience something different, you need to work on it. There is so many things... attuning the mind state, work with aura, experiments with communications... Or just to float in supreme peace and observe surrounding.

[mimihigurashi]

Paradoxically the most perceptive were devill like beings. As silly as this may sound, honestly by this point, I'd take a demon over nothing -_- At least it's someone to interact with, I hate being in deserted places all by myself. I found that the higher level of astral the less beings I met. Interesting you say that, now that I think about it, I actually had a number of experiences with "playful" dark entities while I was in dark, lower places, there did seem to be more activity down there. I managed to call a guide only once- he started to laugh crazily... and then he ran away. LOL, that's freakin hilarious XD As for the low control coming with unattached observer state of mind, yeah that's pretty much the state of mind I was in, perhaps I should try to feel more "connected" to the environment. Anyway your post was helpful in a way actually, thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Psionik]

I don't have reliable way to force or to find someone able to interact. It comes from time to time alone. I managed to make one person able to perceive me(She didn't remember anything, I asked) and to conversate normally by sending energy into her. The same person other time remained irresponsive even if I pushed energy to her for long time. Did you ever see your aura while out of body? With a little training you could learn to manipulate it. Try to send aura into someone. It may have different results- Mainly no results, sometimes they run away with fear, but occasionally you may get lucky. After more than thousand experiences, you find some interesting experiences between majority of dull ones Hmmm... try to steer away from strong emotions while doing this. It destroys "reality" forcing you back into body. About connection to the environment- Try to spread consciousness in astral. It is like you are not localized only in your "avatar" but you are perceiving your surrounding directly as if part of yourself. It is somewhat confusing while moving around... because that area is not very big- from few meters to about 20 meters in diameter... and moving makes things to go into your area of consciousness and out of it. Dark entities are not exactly playful. They can't do real harm to me, but what I feel from them is not very nice(yuck sometimes). Communication with them is the same... If you surround yourself with aura to stay away from that unpleasant feelings... then they run away. I'm used to use aura as shield, passive weapon, and lighting because I travel mainly at night(somehow it is seen also in astral). Most interaction with them is when I find them doing something I feel as wrong, and I'm stopping them doing it. I don't say they need to be looking in some way for everyone, but in lower levels of astral they look like cavemen, even classical devils(red with tail) or beasts, on higher levels of astral they look like dark clouds. Also that dark clouds look to be unstable in higher levels of astral. I never found them in what I think is mental dimension(above astral).

[mimihigurashi]

I don't think I've seen my aura while out of body before, at least I never purposefully looked for it, I'll try it. As for sending it into someone? I don't know, doesn't that seem a bit invasive, I don't want to molest anyone lol. But I'll see what I can do, sounds interesting, same for the consciousness thing, didn't know that, thanks for the info. Mental dimension? I've heard of that before, but tbh it's so hard to get proper information when different sources say different things, at least from what I read on other sites.

[Psionik]

Invasive... well think of it as energy infusion to help and change state of targeted being. I started to work with aura in astral(I don't see it normally) after one OBE where I was again in total darkness not knowing what to do with that. I thought about ending that experience and restart it. But I heard my own voice telling me:"The light is shining. You must learn to see it!" And I tried and the light was there. All things were shining with weak light. I was shining with strong aura, lighting brightly my surrounding. I trained to use it different ways ever since. You can look on my dream journal. In between interesting dreams and lucid dreams there are some more interesting(significant for me) OBEs I had. English is not my first language so it can be difficult to understand sometimes I differentiate OBEs by state of consciousness. I feel differences. Astral dimension needs to (experience it) one type, Mental dimension needs finer control, Budhic is very difficult and I managed that one only about two times. Levels inside dimensions are not that different(when comparing level of consciousness)- from low level to high it changes only a little, but between dimensions there is something like quantum jump which is barrier for me for tuning between dimensions. That's also one of things I need to learn... Very, very difficult for me.

[Dthoughts]

Can't help but think as it seems to me like ur venturing into the realms of the dead. and not the enlightened dead ones. Have you tried meditating? practice in WL,Dreams,OBEs. In my experience, (and I hear from others) this can have great results. In my dream it was like I was flying upwards into clouds. Majestic. Just by sitting in lotus and well.. pretending to meditate. Mudras formed automatically and like the dream did the rest.

[Psionik]

I'm not sure. I heard on another forum that my way is similar to shaman way. I don't know. I didn't try and I don't try to follow anything other than my intuition. I think, that we exist in higher dimensions, but we are unable to woke up there and to perceive that. Of course I don't have proofs so it is only guess from my side. Meditation is what I reach every time if I fail to go away from body and if I don't fall asleep . Because if I miss right moment for separation I lose will to separate. I lose feeling of body. I remain as pure consciousness with strong awareness but no thoughts. Only slow peaceful feelings and thoughtless existence remains. But many people have different definition of meditation... if I apply some of those definitions on myself then I meditate many, many hours per day...( I don't count that as meditation, only contemplation or concentration at maximum)

[mimihigurashi]

Realms of the dead? Well that doesn't sound terrifying at all, lol. I will also try meditating while OBEing, never tried it, but should I close my eyes when I do it? I'm asking because I have bad experiences with closing my eyes in non-physical states, it seems to bring me back to my body within seconds.

[Dthoughts]

I think you could try meditating before you are into non-physical to get the gist of it. Then once you are in non-physical you simply reproduce the state. I do not believe closing eyes is required. But I think it might help. I suppose that you want to kind of find a membrane that takes you up into higher realm. I think it's necessary to disregard the non-physical membrane ur in. And closing ur eyes might prove ideal. However, I don't speak from experience i'm just offering an idea that comes to me. Jurgen Zwiese- multidimensional realities. He's the man who inspired me this week. I recommend listening to his stories perhaps they can awaken something in you that helps you find more mystical statse.

[mimihigurashi]

I've been meditating on and off for at least a couple of years but thanks for the info.

[Psionik]

Clear your mind of all thoughts. Let only feelings there but don't dwell on them. Let feelings come and go. It is very passive approach. It is what unattached observer state is. When I want to do something I must apply my will. Strong will disturbs stability of being in astral dimension. Therefore it is not as simple as it sounds. When I started my OBEs I wasn't able to use will, I was glad if I managed to simply walk around. Observing only. But if you apply your will carefully, so that your will is in line of what you are doing... flowing, and not forced... How long are you traveling? OBE doesn't suck... it is just like real thing. Not very exciting experience if you want action LD on the other side is what you are making out of it. You want action, in LD you make it with imagination.

[Dthoughts]

I've been meditating on and off for at least a couple of years but thanks for the info. There's very different ways of meditating, you must have gained some internal meditative succes if ur able to OBE so often. -Just something i thought of- I was using LSD the other day, and felt myself, i thought i was in the dead bardo. It's general vibe is exactly how you describe ur OBE world. The lsd was violently coming at me with images and disturbing feelings. What I did was, I managed to meditate, hold my hand together and from below an energy came that was like a higher immaterial heavenly realm that I have once managed to visit with help of LSD . My theory is that there's an energy source above ur crown and below Uranus, like two big spheres and we're in the middle of that. Try using this connection with divine. Just a suggestion. Clear your mind of all thoughts. Let only feelings there but don't dwell on them. Let feelings come and go. It is very passive approach. It is what unattached observer state is. When I want to do something I must apply my will. Strong will disturbs stability of being in astral dimension. Therefore it is not as simple as it sounds. When I started my OBEs I wasn't able to use will, I was glad if I managed to simply walk around. Observing only. But if you apply your will carefully, so that your will is in line of what you are doing... flowing, and not forced... Oi, thanks Psionik. That fits my issues like a piece of a jigsaw like it's hand-tailored for me!

[mimihigurashi]

I've only recently been able to check the duration of my travels, thanks to using a timer for OBE inducement. The few travels I've managed to time-check have been mostly around 5 minutes. Only the most recent one has been 10 minutes, it actually would've been longer if it hadn't been interrupted. Ironically, this longest one was also the worst, lol. LD on the other side is what you are making out of it. You want action, in LD you make it with imagination. Lol, alright, let's get into this mess then. So we OBE pretty much the same way we "WILD" right? Staying awake as the body goes to sleep. But if I want to have a LD to have some fun, instead of an OBE and just fly around without much to do, how do I do that? Is it possible to choose somehow? Is it a different realm/frequency?

[Psionik]

Start is the same- relaxation and concentration: I made my exercises out of schultz autogenic training with some shortcuts and modifications. It needs some time to learn them, but not so long. a) Relaxation of striated muscles- I concentrate on weight of my hand, I feel it and I make that feeling as strong as possible, and again stronger. I let that feeling of weight progress through whole body. When all my body feels heavy, I concentrate on deepening of that feeling... This relax skeletal striated muscles. b) Relaxation of smooth muscles- Concentration on warmth in my hand. It feels like I have my hand in warm water, and water is warmer and warmer... liquid fire in my hand. Very pleasant and very hot. I let that liquid fire flow up my hand to other hand, and when my hands are warm, I let that warmth flow to my feet... At last I let spiral that warmth from my hands and legs into solar plexus. Now, I don't do it because of third chakra, but because warmth leads to relaxation of smooth muscle tissue of digestive tract. For OBE: When I reach state of body where it is very heavy, so heavy that I have feeling I can't move and very warm, I start to concentrate on rolling movement of hand. Movement without moving physical muscles. I send impulses to muscles(to roll hand from side to side), but at the same time I let hand relaxed, lying still. After some time I will start to feel second body hand(as if second, astral hand, and with that the feel of astral body permeating physical body start to be felt.)slowly rolling in physical body, and I try to make small rolling movements to be bigger. After a while I move the whole second body out of physical. Sometimes I feel second body even during autogenic relaxation, then separation is simpler and faster. For WILD: With autogenic relaxation I can reach quite quickly sleep paralysis state after years of training. If I want a WILD I look for imagination. I don't need to go as far in relaxation as for OBE. It is enough to relax and concentrate enough to melt disturbances in body and mind. You don't need to leave thinking processes. 1. flash pictures- you can use them to make your dream world... Concentrate on that flashes. If they are real enough there is probability they will take you into them. You will dream in that picture. 2. imagined pictures- harder than flash imagination pictures, you prepare your picture for longer time. You make finer touches to your picture and at some point it is good enough for starting dream inside of them(picture will pull your mind inside). 3. Imagination of tunnel. That one I use most often. My tunnel starts as ring, inside ring, inside ring... I let ring grow... then second one inside first, then third... and I let them grow. It creates illusion of flight in tunnel. At some point your mind will feel the flight. And your tunnel will be more refined as time goes, till you fly at the end of it and into larger country. I asked for the time of training. I train OBE for more than 30 years. Length of individual OBE is hard to say in real time... but subjectively it is from 5 minutes to a few hours... I had OBE where I looked on clocks at the end of experience and when I looked on the clocks in physical world they were only minutes of which could be because it takes short time to regain control of body back... Oh and yes paradoxically the longer OBE the less exciting it is. I think it is because of stability issues. I'm more balanced when there are no strong disturbances during experience. If I'm very detached then it is almost like movie in which I'm moving. Nothing can touch me, and it takes great deal to provoke reaction from me. There are things on which I'm more sensitive... Some of them much more then only more

[mimihigurashi]

I see. Good for you that you can induce SP willingly, I tried many times but it never ended up well. Like if I was lying on my back, no matter how hard I'd try to relax, my body would get increasingly uncomfortable to the point of being painful, and if I was lying on my side I would be able to relax but I'd also just fall asleep no matter how hard I tried to stay awake before any SP had the chance to happen. Now to avoid the whole relaxation problem I wake up from sleep in the early morning then immediately get back in, works well because you're already deeply relaxed, but anyway. So to WILD instead of OBE I should just use my imagination to create a dream scene instead of rolling out of my body? Sounds easy enough, I think I've actually done that in the past, accidentally. Oh, if you meant the time of training you should've asked "For how long have you been practicing", just saying. I've only been practicing for a few years, 4 at most, but like most people I started out uninformed and misinformed, it took a while to find the right things to do through research and experience, but only recently I found something that works semi-decently, still testing. I also noticed time distortions between the realms. p.s. Does anyone find it significantly harder to OBE/WILD if you missed an hour or two of sleep? Can less than two hours of sleep make a difference? I'm suspecting it could because of REM but I'm not sure.

[Psionik]

That waking up and then go back into bed reminds me one way to do LD. It doesn't function by me. When you want to feel second body... good relaxation is necessary. I had some experiences with OBE when I was dying because of asthma(oxygen deprivation)... or when I had high fever a few times... Every time I had high fever I was hoping that I will maybe go out of body and fly around ... But then I tried to learn relaxation from one sci-fi book because it sounded interesting... not knowing that method was based on real thing. And it functioned. And it was very interesting to go in concentration and relaxation of body down to sleep paralysis and sensory deprivation. I liked it very much... well I had about 11 years at that time And in one of deep relaxation I accidentally floated out of body. Before that I didn't know I can go out without being seriously ill. It took me next cca 4 years till I managed to repeat that feat. Try to relax my way(it is much faster way), lie down on something soft, get something under your waist so it will prevent the straightening of physiological S shape of backbone. Train it for short time if you feel uncomfortable... You don't need to lie on your back, you can also sit in recumbent position... if you have something like rocker... or armchair with possibility of changing the angle of back rest or how it is named. Relaxation on side is not so relaxing, better is relaxation lying on your stomach, with your hands embracing pillow. But it is best to lie on your back, the movements of chest are not disturbing then. I'm not going into full dream paralysis , it is not necessary. But sleep paralysis is where I can send impulses into my hands for movement and at the same time not to move them and let them lay relaxed. Those impulses makes me feel my second body. Because if physical is not moving second one react nonetheless sooner or later. Yes uninformed My case- I'm from country forced into former east block led by USSR . Information vacuum. I was traveling a few years before I found accidentally by browsing internet, that there are others. But maybe that was good for something. I read so much misinformation since then... Like I could die if I travel through bad weather, particularly thunderstorms Or that it could happen that something will take my body and I could not go back. Or that I will break something I never saw(silver rope or something)... Well I felt it a few times and I even managed to beak it because it was obstacle to travel further away from my body. There were times when I tried to break bonds with my body and never come back. I was never able to do that. At the end of every and each experience I'm pulled back to my body aven if I try to prevent return. Imagination leads to WILD... it is much less exciting than OBE. Try either tunnel or flash imagination. They are simpler. The full blown picture is hard to make. But it would be the best for directed OBE... To go lucidly into dream and directly to place and situation you want to be in. I do WILDs or OBEs before going sleep. Yesterday/today I went to bed about 1 hour past midnight. I managed WILD targeted to URTH island promoted by Baking Nomad I described it here http://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dre...ml#post2176212 It is game for making shared lucid dreaming... But I'm probably bad in that. The first try to go there and I destroyed city accidentally Baking Nomad didn't register any catastrophe, we weren't at the same place