Thread: Destiny

People's belief in destiny seems to come in 3 main flavors, based on my experience. The first way is exactly as you stated it--the, honestly rather vague, statement or belief that events that happen in one's life always happen for a reason... whether that be because a plan set out from creation by a creator deity or a more mystic/spiritual kind of sense where disparate occurrences in your life are somehow mysteriously connected by a more transcendental, meta-physical bond and that that connection exists for a some goal or reason of its own.

The second, although somewhat related to the first, is that they believe the universe is deterministic, either through an inability to reconcile a lot of our current understanding of physics and causality with the idea, or they believe the universe is deterministic in nature because a creator being had some plan set out from the beginning (which is how its related to the first, although belief in a divine plan, strangely enough in my opinion, doesn't seem to cause any cognitive dissonance in some people even though our having free will doesn't really jive with a the universe being created with the entirety of its future existence planned from the beginning).

Lastly is something akin to what I believe it was the ancient Greeks believed in. A person had a destiny, and one they really couldn't avoid, but its cause was attributed to the fundamental nature of one's personality. These were seen as a set of characteristics that one was born predisposed to having which would directly inform how that person makes decisions and reacts to all the encounters and events experienced during the course of one's life.

When it comes to the first type, so long as you don't believe the reason is a plan that was determined from the beginning by a deity, then this version seems the most likely to allow for legitimate changes to be made in one's destiny. That said, I believe the reason for that is precisely the result of how vague the parameters for who/what decides the reasons behind what happens to someone throughout their life. I fully expect that the more detailed, consistent, and concrete one's beliefs regarding what determines the reason certain things happen during life are is inversely proportional to how plausible the argument that one's destiny can actually change would be. Case in point, believing the reasons are determined by God because He has a divine plan in place.

The other two types really don't seem to allow any chance for one's destiny to change. As far as my own beliefs go, I'm open to the idea that the universe may in fact be deterministic by the nature of its being, but it isn't exactly something you can really prove so I don't see in any point in making a decision one way or another about whether the choices I make are my own, a result of my individual free will, or if it's even accurate to be describing the choices and decisions I make as choices or decisions because it is all just a result of a chain reaction because the as of yet fully understood nature of causality. It's interesting to speculate at times, but a determination, on top of being premature, just seems silly when it winds up having no real functional impact on my life experiences either way. Committing to one belief or the other instead of just staying considerate and open minded to both seems like it'll just wind up leading to a pointless headache later on down the road, because the belief in destiny greatly concerns and influences your perspective and world outlook.

My opinion is that destiny is where you are headed based on the decisions you have made in the past and are likely to make in the future. It could be your most likely outcome, but that doesn't mean you can't make decisions that turn you on another path which is now your new destiny (your destination).

My take on destiny is far simpler than what has been said here so far. BlueSunrise is closest to my perspective, but still not quite.



You come to a crossroads. You don't know which way to turn.
Eventually you chose to turn left.

That decision was destiny.
If you turned right, then that decision would have been destiny.

From this moment onwards, that decision to turn left affects the entire rest of your life. That is destiny.
If you had turned right, that decision would affect your life in a whole different way. That also would have been destiny.


The way I see it is very simple. What is, is.
Reasons are self-fulfilling, there's no need to look at the reasons, unless you want to be grateful for something which has come into your life. Gratefulness that it is, is enough. But I suppose you could also trace back all the things which led to that moment (which, by the way, is every single decision you ever made), and you can trace into the future what might happen because of the decision (which you can never know until it happens, but everything that happens after that point is a result of the decision). The point I'm trying to make here is that destiny is so simple, yet so massive. It's everything.

I do love to say "everything happens for a reason", but beneath the surface of that statement is my actual meaning. And it's something far more magical than the idea of pre-determined, written story.
The magic of what is. The magic of truth. The magic that the reason we are here talking right now, is because all the decisions in our life led to this moment, and the magic that this conversation will now echo and ripple into our entire future and the future of the whole world.

And of course destiny can be changed. Every single moment of your existence you are making free-will choices. Even with the fundamental illusory nature of choices, we are still completely free to choose. The path you walk is your own path and it means whatever you want it to mean.


You can allow this philosophy to free you because you can realize that no matter what you choose, it WILL have a reason. (Remember, the reason is EVERYTHING that has happened and will happen). Bad things and good things will come of it. Which are you going to focus on? Many people focus on the bad so refuse to see the magic in this. Many people focus on the good, so as to have a sunny disposition. Personally, I chose to see things as-is. Bad and good are two sides of the same coin. If something bad happens, I can look at the good alongside it and see that the bad and the good are inseparable. I've done this enough to know it's not even worth thinking about. Again... what is, is.

Decisions are the little obsessive wobblings we do before acting as we worry if we have taken enough data into consideration. The truth is of course that the amount of data that should be taken into any consideration is infinite. And also, that you don't know when you actually made the decision or where it came from...

So I guess it's better to think of your self as a cloud. Clouds don't make mistakes... Have you ever seen a misshaped cloud? Or a cloud blowing the wrong way?

As for the gamma waves, I don't know about that and I don't see any reason to make it that complex. But will is definitely a thing. And I guess people have it in varying degrees. But even the most strong willed, with gamma waves blasting out of their skulls, giving their neighbours cats cancer, even they are subject to something higher. Though one can act as a player in your own level you will always be the pawn on another level.

But that doesn't mean free will isn't real. You have an experience in the present moment of making decisions and having a will. Should you let your logic tell you otherwise? How certain are the premises you base those logic functions on compared to your direct experience in the present moment? Not very certain at all I would say.

I think there is destiny, but there is freedom also.

Not everything can be decomposed into mechanical cause and effect vs random chance. That view of the world leaves something out.

I don’t know how to tell the difference between destiny and psychic self-fulfilling prophecies, though I think that thinking of things in terms of that dichotomy rests on a mistake also.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I think there is destiny, but there is freedom also.

Not everything can be decomposed into mechanical cause and effect vs random chance. That view of the world leaves something out.

I don’t know how to tell the difference between destiny and psychic self-fulfilling prophecies, though I think that thinking of things in terms of that dichotomy rests on a mistake also.

Why would you think it rest on mistake? Most times when one views something beyond them that controls their actions or behavior is usually look upon as the correct way or knowing better than themselves could on their own. I am sure you have felt the feeling of you were meant to do something and the feeling of complete uncertainty. I agree with your statement about there being both destiny and freedom in this world.

Right. Here’s what I meant by being confused about cause: Suppose I dream of an event which could not plausibly have been predicted from prior events, and it happens a few hours later. Did I psychically and subconsciously cause the event, or was it freely caused by the angel that gave me the preview, or was it already unavoidable for some mechanistic reason, as if it had already happened at some level or some sense, and the angel was just telling me about it? I think those questions involve partial misconceptions of time and identity. I think there isn’t a completely clean line between ‘me’ and the ‘angel’, but it’s not really me either, it is more than that, and also distinct from me. Also, I think that the ‘angel’ or fate does have some freedom to steer the way that the thought or spiritual condition manifests, but much of the essence of what happens can’t be avoided. Also, I do always have a role in that also, consciously or not, if the event involves me at all, even if that involvement is very small. I used to worry about this for violent accidents I foresaw, for exampl, wondering if I was causing it somehow. Now I think it’s not a problem in the sense of being a question. Of course I affect things, which is part of why it is important to keep my mind reasonably clean. That interrelationship doesn’t get turned off, it’s inherent in how destiny works, and unavoidable if I have any connection to the world at all. But of course it works that way for other people too, and I’m only responsible for the ingredient I add, which is typically small.

I should also add, thanks for drawing my attention to the feeling of destiny vs freedom. Discussing it like this with someone else who has been thinking about it helps me get a clearer read on it.

Originally Posted by shadowofwind

I should also add, thanks for drawing my attention to the feeling of destiny vs freedom. Discussing it like this with someone else who has been thinking about it helps me get a clearer read on it.

Destiny for me has been my entire life since I was born. Against my will as I was raised with such views. I enjoy seeing your words as I do wish to see the other side rather than one perspective. I feel I have lost a path that was meant for me as I spent many years and endure much on it. It conflicts with who I believe I was meant to be from who I really am. Thank you for your words as I hope this thread has done the same in helping you. I will find a way on my own again. Have a nice journey.