So, What Do You Guys Believe?

[legit]

Hey. Over the past couple of years that I have been browsing the internet about topics such as LDs and OBEs I've encountered countless different belief systems and ideas that some people actually fullheartedly believe. I figured from the start that most of the stuff was completely BS. I finally settled on believing lucid dreaming because it actually makes sense scientifically and has been proven to exist. Also, I already had experienced one so I knew it was for real... Some of the things I have read about are psi, qigong, OBEs, telepathy, psychokinesis, etc... I'm sure most of you have heard about these terms personally, I think its a load of crap. The only one I used to believe in out of the above was OBEs, or out of body experiences, mostly because I thought it had some scientific backing and I actually saw a TV show on it, which sparked my interested in researching these topics in the first place. However, as I researched more I came to my personal conclusion that OBEs are simply LDs... I've never had an "OBE" so I can't say for sure if this is true since some people do say there is a difference, but thats what I currently believe. In a way its dissapointing, because it was always comforting to think there was another dimension of existence after death... but now I can't be so sure about that. I also believed in near death experiences, but I did read that there was brain activity for up to three days after one dies, so that could just be more lucid dreaming... So, what do you guys believe in? Just LDs, or more than that?

[Beeyahoi]

LDs - Obviously. OBEs - Possibly. The Rest - I don't know.

[Geeome]

Honestly, I don't like to take peoples word for things. The only things from the above poster that I believe exist in this world is QiGong, OBE's, and Lucid Dreaming. QiGong because I believe some of what I experience is linked with it, in terms of some feelings. OBE's, because I have experienced one. Lucid Dreams because I experienced one. And I believe near death experiences are just the body losing consciousnes, whether its from pain, fear, etc. And it is just a loss of being able to think logically any longer.

[legit]

Hey, thanks for the replies. @Geeome - thats interesting that you believe in both LDs and OBEs. How do you know they are two separate things? Are they easily distinguishable when you have one?

[DreamQueen]

So, what do you guys believe in? Just LDs, or more than that? Just LDs. I believe OBEs are simply LDs. I work in the operating room. Every time we give a patient Ketamine in PACU (Post Anaesthetic Care Unit) they experience a feeling of being detached from their body and often state that they feel as though they are floating somewhere in the room looking at themselves in their hospital bed. This is while they're conscious. Honestly, the whole concept of OBEs, near-death experiences etc is just boring to perioperative and postoperative staff Sorry to piss on the fireworks of all who are hoping for more after this life. There isn't a shred of evidence that there's more. So go large while you can

[Shift]

Someone move this to beyond dreaming. I think an OBE is an out of body experience- the perception that your consciousness is existing outside of your physical body. Whatever the reason, to me this perception is what makes an OBE an OBE. If you use a WILD technique and think you've floated out of your body, you're not lucid, but you're having a dream that you're having an OBE. If you just have one, you're having an OBE. Whatever the reason. I don't believe in souls, or astral planes, or any of those things.

[Lionface]

Someone move this to beyond dreaming. I think an OBE is an out of body experience- the perception that your consciousness is existing outside of your physical body. Whatever the reason, to me this perception is what makes an OBE an OBE. If you use a WILD technique and think you've floated out of your body, you're not lucid, but you're having a dream that you're having an OBE. If you just have one, you're having an OBE. Whatever the reason. I don't believe in souls, or astral planes, or any of those things. Thats EXACTLY how I feel. It would be totally cool if astral planes, spirits, telepathy, and all that existed. I'm not saying they don't, and I'm totally open to the possibility of these things. But I'm not going to believe in anything without solid evidence. >.> I have no real reason to believe in these things so why should I? I'll remain optimistic but I honestly cannot give myself over to these concepts without any solid proof. I kinda wish I could QQ.

[LucidFlanders]

Just LDs. I believe OBEs are simply LDs. I work in the operating room. Every time we give a patient Ketamine in PACU (Post Anaesthetic Care Unit) they experience a feeling of being detached from their body and often state that they feel as though they are floating somewhere in the room looking at themselves in their hospital bed. This is while they're conscious. Honestly, the whole concept of OBEs, near-death experiences etc is just boring to perioperative and postoperative staff Sorry to piss on the fireworks of all who are hoping for more after this life. There isn't a shred of evidence that there's more. So go large while you can Well..it really is a 2 way street. While there really is no evidence for it, there is no evidence against it. The whole matter is completly complex. I don't think it really matters if they believe in it or not, because you can't say "it's not real", or "It's real, enjoy". There also is nothing you can use to record it. There is too many things we just do not understand/know to even give an accurate answer.

[Lionface]

Well..it really is a 2 way street. While there really is no evidence for it, there is no evidence against it. The whole matter is completly complex. I don't think it really matters if they believe in it or not, because you can't say "it's not real", or "It's real, enjoy". There also is nothing you can use to record it. There is too many things we just do not understand/know to even give an accurate answer. Its fun to speculate and share opinions/thoughts/and stuff though. I really enjoy talking about this kind of thing and thinking about it even if I will not get an answer. :3

[DeathCell]

Well..it really is a 2 way street. While there really is no evidence for it, there is no evidence against it. The whole matter is completly complex. I don't think it really matters if they believe in it or not, because you can't say "it's not real", or "It's real, enjoy". There also is nothing you can use to record it. There is too many things we just do not understand/know to even give an accurate answer. Agree, some people here are just far to worried about telling others what is and isn't real. As if they are the creator of all life themselves.

[spaceexplorer]

Agree, some people here are just far to worried about telling others what is and isn't real. As if they are the creator of all life themselves. Saying something is real is equal to saying something isn't real. In fact saying something is real that most people have no evidence for, is far more, in your words: "As if they are the creator of all life themselves."

[Kuhnada29]

Saying something is real is equal to saying something isn't real. In fact saying something is real that most people have no evidence for, is far more, in your words: "As if they are the creator of all life themselves." the keyboard your touching and the monitor your looking at isn't real, science proves it's just empty space. so you don't know WHAT is real.

[DarkLucideity]

the keyboard your touching and the monitor your looking at isn't real, science proves it's just empty space. so you don't know WHAT is real. I like how you're basically saying, "Nothing is real, so what I believe in is real."

[Licity]

I know LDs are real, and I think telepathy might be real in some form, just not what we're used to thinking of.

[LucidFlanders]

Feelings are real. Chemicals or not, they are real and probably the most real thing there is.

[Kuhnada29]

Feelings are real. Chemicals or not, they are real and probably the most real thing there is. I agree.

[Hukif]

From self experiences, I believe in LD and SD. OBE &/or AP is in the line, since it can just be coincidence, a LD with really good perception, or both. SD just because I have yet to find a scientific explanation to what happened, but still looking for it, and LD is pretty obvious lol

[metcalfracing]

Lucid dreams are real... the rest is imaginary new age BS. And you can quote me on that.

[LucidFlanders]

Lucid dreams are real... the rest is imaginary new age BS. And you can quote me on that. I just did.

[metcalfracing]

I just did. touche

[Jeff777]

I believe I am still searching for what to believe in or if there is anything at all that warrants my belief.

[Unelias]

Answer from a nihilist.. I've seen many things, tried many things on my own. As long as there is no solid explanation for it, it doesn't actually exist for me. I don't have to believe, but I can research and try them for the sheer interest. Most of those things are very interesting anyways.

[juroara]

I believe in the human being, above all things. I believe in the experiences of human beings. At the end of the day, what you have or have no experienced is all that matters. That's all life is, experiencing. And while you can argue till the sky falls down, the actual experience itself is real. If one human has experienced something, then I reason all humans can experience the same. Being skeptical is understandable. How can anything be real until you know it first hand? But whether or not you believe in OBE's or AP's, you can still experience them. Do you understand what I mean? And while I hold the human experience on a pedastal, I think it's extremely ignorant for someone to be against what these experiences hold. I find people who are against a certain experience, against, not skeptical, are against something because they are emotionally hurt. And not becuase science or religion has given them the power to be against something. If a significant number of humans profess that they have experienced Oneness with the either the Universe or God, who am I to call them a liar just because I have not experienced what they have? If they have experienced Oneness then I say, this must be a real valid human experience, therefore I can experience it. Lucid dreaming was a no brainer, that was easily experienced as a child I believe in spirits because of my own experience of spirits. The experience involved five other people, at different times. Ruling out hallucination. We did not confide in each other until days later (when someone could no longer sleep). Ruling out group hysteria. We discovered that our descriptions of the spirit matched. The only argument you could have against our group experience is that you believe I'm lying. Where does believing that people must be lying about their experience get you? Since I believed in spirits, and every reason to believe in spirits, I believed there must be another form of reality that they reside in. This is the biggest unknown for me. Psychic phenomenon. There's plenty of extensive research on it. 100th monkey. Science seems to suggest that the majority of psychic phenomenon is unconscious. NDE's. This is something I'm really sensitive on. I find most people who are against NDE's are extremely ignorant on what NDErs actually experience. It disgusts me, because the messages given in the NDEs are probably the most significant. They shatter old age religious dogma. And are good news for anyone. Geeome's comment is an example of how ignorant people are about NDEs "And I believe near death experiences are just the body losing consciousnes, whether its from pain, fear, etc. And it is just a loss of being able to think logically any longer" Unable to think logically? Call the NDE a dream if you have to. But actually take the time to read up on what you're talking about. A large number of NDErs testify their experience was MORE REAL than waking life. More VIVID than waking life. Something an experienced lucid dreamer can relate to. They had in depth conversations. And show complex thought processes such as contemplation, retrospecting, that would not be expected in a dying brain. The NDE also continues to stand out from 'hallucinations' in that they are NOT random. They are coherent and have a pattern to them. The pattern in the NDE is unique. Which makes it stand out from other experiences, like dreams, OBE's or AP's. Many NDErs find themselves at a loss for words, and say the human language falls short at expressing their experience. Though they can remember it clearly. I've read hundreds of NDE experiences. When I started I was skeptical at first. Not to mention my church was saying NDEs are illusions created by Satan. Why would some church officials be against NDEs? As it turns out, the God of NDE experiences has a bad habit of not sending people to hell. Atheists and homosexuals have found themselves in a heavenly experience. The church began to believe these experiences were un-holy. Despite the experience being life altering and cementing the need to be a loving individual. Hallucinations don't change an individuals entire view of life. And most people who hallucinate, admit their experience is a hallucination. Even here on this forum we make a distinct difference when a sleep paralysis becomes dream like, and when it becomes a hallucination. NDErs testify their experience is real, because it is not like a dream or hallucination. Regardless of whether or not you do believe its real, it needs to be understood it is its unique experience unlike all others. If we were to look at the NDE as simply an experience, it is one of the rarest human experiences around. In that, you can have hundreds of lucid dreams in your life time. But you would be lucky, or unlucky to have experienced an NDE more than once.

[sanjar]

[but I did read that there was brain activity for up to three days after one dies,)??????????????????????

[Xetrov]

Juroara, very nice post, well said. Discussion can be endless and probably will be, but in the end I agree it is about personal experiences.