Thread: Astral Projection, Remote Viewing, Lucid Dreaming

Interesting, Nomad!

I love the idea of root vegetables being grounding... now you said it, it seems obvious!

Specific gemstones that are helpful for grounding are basically anything naturally black or dark grey, as there is a black chakra under our feet. Black onyx is almost always a dyed stone, so not a really good choice. But Black Obsidian (also called Apache's tears, and actually volcanic glass) is good, as are it's sisters, snowflake obsidian (with white spots) and mahogany obsidian (with brown spots). Black Tourmaline is wonderful, and this one is good in the crystal form. ( think you meant quartz crystal isn't good, right? It elevates rather than grounding. There is a clear chakra up above the violet at the crown of our head.) Hematite is very good, and I find for myself, a bit too strong. I'm grounded way too much by it, but for someone who's flying high all the time, it can be a really good thing. I've found recently what's working just right for me is Labradorite (aka Spectralite). I found a ring with a small dark gray Labradorite stone, and this one has a lavender-blue flash to it, and I love it, and have no problem keeping it on. I wear it on my left receptive hand. Labradorite also often has a blue-green flash... these are the "spectres" in the stone, because you have to turn them the right way to see them.

I agree that remote viewing is about the earth plane, but don't agree it all takes place sitting in chairs at a table with pencil and paper. Scientists do that, of course, to try to control and verify everything. You should read Dale E. Graff's books. He was a former director of Stargate and is very interesting! His most recent one, _River Dreams_, goes more into Stargate than his first did, and I've yet to finish it, though have read about a quarter of the way through. I also have, but have not yet read or listened to, both the book and the CD classes on Remote Viewing by David Morehouse, also formerly part of Stargate. I have the hardest time reading lately, because Lily is in a mood where she wants my full attention if I'm sitting still.

But really, remote viewing happens naturally in dreams all the time. It's a matter of learning to recognize it, I think. It can also happen during meditation, or any time we're sitting quietly. Then you can tell when it's real when it gets verified, and you can assume that if it's verified often enough, you're probably seeing something real. One of my son's goes on camping trips a lot, and I'm always viewing pieces of his trips, and then I'll ask him about whether he went on one, and he did, and some of the things I describe from my dreams actually happened.

And you're right... there is always so much more to learn!!! It's true, I think, with most things. I know I can spend lifetimes learning about jewelry crafting, for example, and never know all there is to know. Isn't it wonderful though? Because really, there's no excuse for being bored.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Remote Viewing
The idea is to see physical shapes.

I don't know where you learned to remote view, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

If you see a physical shape in your mind I guaran-fucking-tee it's wrong. Same goes for any sudden "guesses" that pop into your mind in the form of words.

I learned from the Ed Dame (AKA Dr Doom) method, and he says to write stuff down before those false images even have a chance to form. He even has a technique to dismiss those types of mental constructs so that you can move on free from their influence. But I expect lucid dreamers to be better than that.

Those "wrong impressions" form the same way dreams do, and dreamers should be able to recognize that (at least I do!). Usually there is no way to know if you're right about your remote viewing until you check to verify what you were viewing, which isn't always possible.

Yet you can still learn to recognize when you're right. It comes as a feeling, not as an image or words. A feeling that is more accurate than both words and images combines could ever be.

Ed dames you have you jot down any old crap, but when I do it, I wait for that specific feeling, even if it takes longer than Dames would suggest.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

I don't know where you learned to remote view, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

If you see a physical shape in your mind I guaran-fucking-tee it's wrong.

Well, these are just opinions based on my personal experiences. Maybe I didn't clarify well. My definitions are also my own personal definitions.

I have seen shapes in my mind, and I have been about 80% correct on the "good" hits. The best test I did to verify my own personal ability is an online test where you are given numbers that are assigned to different pictures. I started drawing lines and shapes, and also words that that describe. After you are done drawing, you look at the picture. I had good hits on about a third or maybe a fourth of the pictures. Good to me being 75% accuracy, roughly, and above.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Well, these are just opinions based on my personal experiences. Maybe I didn't clarify well. My definitions are also my own personal definitions.

I have seen shapes in my mind, and I have been about 80% correct on the "good" hits. The best test I did to verify my own personal ability is an online test where you are given numbers that are assigned to different pictures. I started drawing lines and shapes, and also words that that describe. After you are done drawing, you look at the picture. I had good hits on about a third or maybe a fourth of the pictures. Good to me being 75% accuracy, roughly, and above.

There are a set of cards you can get with just simple basic shapes on them, such a star, a square, a circle, wavy lines, etc. These are often used for remote viewing testing. Tests can be as simple as having a sender who sends the image and a person who tries to receive it, or they can be more of the blind test nature, where the cards are put in sealed numbered envelopes and given to the receiver to try to figure out what the card is. It can be further removed by the person who seals them in the envelopes having zero contact with the receiver, but another party acting as go-between, who has not seen what is in the envelopes. You could even just give the receiver the number of the envelope, and see if they can get it from that, without ever touching the envelope. There are ways to work with shapes.

Also, if someone does a contest, as they do on IASD's Psiber Dreaming Conference (coming up the end of this month), the scoring process is very much involved with shapes and other details as well as direct hits. I came in fourth in one such contest last year, because instead of seeing Tin Man in a Wizard of Oz scene, I saw an old-fashioned metal stove, and a man in front of it wearing big potholder gloves, which looked like Tin Man's gloves. The stove was metal, like Tin Man. Also what stood out for me was the curves on the legs which were like Queen Anne legs on furniture. The scene depicted was full of graceful curves, and that shape was part of the reason I placed fourth. The ones who came closer actually saw things like knights in armor, things more directly related to a Tin Man.

So yes, shapes matter when you're doing this sort of thing.

My closest hits come spontaneously though. That same event last year, the other contest I entered, I had no hits at all, instead, I saw Paul Newman laying flat on his back, thought he was dead, and heard a voice say, "He was short." The next day, they reported Newman's death, and when I did a search on him, I found whole websites with conversations about how short he was for a leading man, which I'd never heard before. The details like that are always what makes me aware that I was seeing something real that happened, prior to the actual event.

I saw the last Pope's death as two Tarot cards: The Hierophant, which is a Pope like figure, and the Death card. He died right after. That was really clear and specific.

You can't really say it's all one way or another, as we all receive differently, we all pay attention to different aspects of what we're receiving. We're different, so what we receive is different, just as witnesses observing a waking life incident, like a crime taking place, will see different things. We each see from our own perspective.

Try this site... looks like fun! <http://www.links2love.com/quizzes/am_i_psychic_test.htm>

Well, I'm scooting out of here for the weekend, and going to do non-computer related things until Tuesday... you all have a nice long weekend!

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

I have seen shapes in my mind, and I have been about 80% correct on the "good" hits. The best test I did to verify my own personal ability is an online test where you are given numbers that are assigned to different pictures. I started drawing lines and shapes, and also words that that describe. After you are done drawing, you look at the picture. I had good hits on about a third or maybe a fourth of the pictures. Good to me being 75% accuracy, roughly, and above.

Accuracy is a funny and highly subjective thing to measure with remote viewing. I'm not going to ride your ass about your success ratios, I don't doubt you, but you know what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by IrisRavenstar

There are a set of cards you can get with just simple basic shapes on them, such a star, a square, a circle, wavy lines, etc. These are often used for remote viewing testing

They're called Zeener cards, and they are NEVER EVER EVER used to practice remote viewing. EVER!

THe main reason being is because there are only 5 outcomes and the mind can't resist guessing what that might be. Remote viewing works better the less you know about your target.

In a situation where you want to RV a limited number of outcomes like with the Zeener cards, then you could attatch a random picture to the back of each card, and then try to remote view the correct mystery picture. Then all you have to do is look for the picture that corresponds with the proper symbol.

Originally Posted by IrisRavenstar

There are a set of cards you can get with just simple basic shapes on them, such a star, a square, a circle, wavy lines, etc. These are often used for remote viewing testing. Tests can be as simple as having a sender who sends the image and a person who tries to receive it, or they can be more of the blind test nature, where the cards are put in sealed numbered envelopes and given to the receiver to try to figure out what the card is. It can be further removed by the person who seals them in the envelopes having zero contact with the receiver, but another party acting as go-between, who has not seen what is in the envelopes. You could even just give the receiver the number of the envelope, and see if they can get it from that, without ever touching the envelope. There are ways to work with shapes.

Also, if someone does a contest, as they do on IASD's Psiber Dreaming Conference (coming up the end of this month), the scoring process is very much involved with shapes and other details as well as direct hits. I came in fourth in one such contest last year, because instead of seeing Tin Man in a Wizard of Oz scene, I saw an old-fashioned metal stove, and a man in front of it wearing big potholder gloves, which looked like Tin Man's gloves. The stove was metal, like Tin Man. Also what stood out for me was the curves on the legs which were like Queen Anne legs on furniture. The scene depicted was full of graceful curves, and that shape was part of the reason I placed fourth. The ones who came closer actually saw things like knights in armor, things more directly related to a Tin Man.

So yes, shapes matter when you're doing this sort of thing.

My closest hits come spontaneously though. That same event last year, the other contest I entered, I had no hits at all, instead, I saw Paul Newman laying flat on his back, thought he was dead, and heard a voice say, "He was short." The next day, they reported Newman's death, and when I did a search on him, I found whole websites with conversations about how short he was for a leading man, which I'd never heard before. The details like that are always what makes me aware that I was seeing something real that happened, prior to the actual event.

I saw the last Pope's death as two Tarot cards: The Hierophant, which is a Pope like figure, and the Death card. He died right after. That was really clear and specific.

You can't really say it's all one way or another, as we all receive differently, we all pay attention to different aspects of what we're receiving. We're different, so what we receive is different, just as witnesses observing a waking life incident, like a crime taking place, will see different things. We each see from our own perspective.

Try this site... looks like fun! <http://www.links2love.com/quizzes/am_i_psychic_test.htm>

Well, I'm scooting out of here for the weekend, and going to do non-computer related things until Tuesday... you all have a nice long weekend!

Your clairvoyant experiences are fascinating. I had a funny one. One day I was practicing astral projection at my mother-in-law's house. I got out of bed, stood up, and walked out the front door. In the front lawn I saw a bunch of metal sculptures. One in particular stood out to me. It was a scene of the ocean. There were whales, waves, and boats getting rocked with the whalers flying out of the boats. I thought it was strange that I saw something that wasn't there while I was doing astral projection on to the physical world. It was a relief sculpture. The picture was so clear, that I actually drew it on a piece of paper.

The next day my (now ex)wife and I walked into an artsy tourist trap in Maine. One the wall was the exact picture I saw in my dream, made of dyed cloth. I wanted to buy it, but it was $1200. I couldn't find the drawing after I saw the cloth picture. I thought it had some significance, but I could find none. The only significance I could think of is that it proved to me that I can sometimes see into the future. Hmm... I think I should practice astral projection more.

I don't really care about proving to people that I am a psychic, because everyone is psychic. If you want to disprove me, do some of your own experiments to prove to yourself that you are not. But, actually try and put forth an effort.

I agree.

FUCK

We probably all have different reactions to that word. Some of you may have thought, "What an asshole!" Some of you may have laughed, some of you may be confused, some may be offended. I agree that we receive things in different ways, psychic, or otherwise.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Accuracy is a funny and highly subjective thing to measure with remote viewing. I'm not going to ride your ass about your success ratios, I don't doubt you, but you know what I'm saying.

I do know what you are saying. The best way I can describe the drawings I consider hits is if a young child tried to trace the basic outlines of the original photograph. I seemed to get better hits on photos of things that I am connected to, such as the sea.

I learned remote viewing through reading the book Psychic Warrior by David Morehouse.

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

Your astral body is your consciousness.

This does not make a lot of sense to me. How can your astral body, which is a form of so called "subtle" energy (but energy nonetheless) be equal to consciousness, which is merely the awareness of things. It is like calling the mirror (consciousness) the same as the reflection (anything it can be conscious of, in this case astral body). Or maybe see it in the budhist way, consciousness being the formless, all the rest are the forms. Have you ever thought of it in that way?

Originally Posted by Xetrov

This does not make a lot of sense to me. How can your astral body, which is a form of so called "subtle" energy (but energy nonetheless) be equal to consciousness, which is merely the awareness of things. It is like calling the mirror (consciousness) the same as the reflection (anything it can be conscious of, in this case astral body). Or maybe see it in the budhist way, consciousness being the formless, all the rest are the forms. Have you ever thought of it in that way?

Words are tricky things..

Borrowing Robert Monroe terms, the Second Body is the energy form which is another layer of the whole. I think some call it "Etheric body", the Third Body which is more of the essence may be called "Astral Body" by some, but I think a lot of these words and metaphors quickly get intermixed..

Think about this, the older the word or term is, the more baggage it has. The baggage consist of many incorrect, close to correct and some correct information, due to the wide use and how humans differ in perception of words and metaphors the term quickly gets wearied down, examples are "Astral Projection" and "Out of Body" in some degree, and terms related or in same category.

Therefore I think the terms coined by Robert Monroe may be more accurate, due to much less baggage, and more clear definitions (certainly not perfect).

Xetrov, your dispute is valid and raises another question.

The physical body, second body and third body (and all the other related metaphors) are NOT fundamental. Only consciousness is fundamental (along with Evolution, but that's something else).

Naturally, everything else becomes derivatives of that. Which leads to metaphors (everything is essential metaphors), and reality becomes virtual

Yes Specialis, words are very tricky things. The only thing is, it is the only way to communicate on such a forum ... so by using metaphors, we try to make others understand what we mean / feel about certain issues. I agree that can be hard and maybe confusing at times.

That said, the bodies that Monroe describes are still energies, whereas consciousness itself is not. Im not sure what you mean with fundamental though, do you mean it is a fundamental property of the universe? Like gravity, and yeah perhaps evolution can be seen in the same way...

But if this is correct then the metaphor used by Nomad is in essence incorrect since then consciousness is clearly not an energy / astral body. personally I see it that way, and also I have my own view on OBE / AP experiences (I dont think they have to do with projcting bodies, only with focussing, aiming or projecting consciousness).

Originally Posted by Xetrov

This does not make a lot of sense to me. How can your astral body, which is a form of so called "subtle" energy (but energy nonetheless) be equal to consciousness, which is merely the awareness of things. It is like calling the mirror (consciousness) the same as the reflection (anything it can be conscious of, in this case astral body). Or maybe see it in the budhist way, consciousness being the formless, all the rest are the forms. Have you ever thought of it in that way?

No, I haven't. I am going to have to think about this for awhile. That is an interesting idea. I know some people believe in many "bodies."

I have always felt like my spirit was safe inside my body in bed, but my astral body was where my awareness was during astral projection.

So, do we move our consciousness from physical body to astral body?

Originally Posted by WakingNomad

So, do we move our consciousness from physical body to astral body?

Yes, consciousness can be focussed anywhere. During the day, it is focussed on our surroundings or on thought, etc. During night, it is focussed in our dreams, but it could probably also be focussed on astral phenomena.

If you alay down and and meditate, meaning just lay down and rest your body and mind, but don't fall asleep, when your head and body starts to vibrate you can focus the vibration...you can actually move it to where you want...It's very interesting.

How do you turn that into a astral projection?

Originally Posted by The Cusp

They're called Zeener cards, and they are NEVER EVER EVER used to practice remote viewing. EVER!

THe main reason being is because there are only 5 outcomes and the mind can't resist guessing what that might be. Remote viewing works better the less you know about your target.

In a situation where you want to RV a limited number of outcomes like with the Zeener cards, then you could attatch a random picture to the back of each card, and then try to remote view the correct mystery picture. Then all you have to do is look for the picture that corresponds with the proper symbol.

Yes, dear, I know they're called Zenner cards (not Zeener), and didn't find it necessary to say that, since it was already said on the site I linked to. They are used to practice and test psychic abilities, and Remote Viewing IS a psychic, or psi, ability. But my point, actually, was that the mind most easily recognizes simple SHAPES, just as dreams are predominately visual. Shapes matter when describing what you're seeing during remote viewing, or any psychic contests that are testing it. The actual contests that I've participated in have used a sender with a picture, but the shapes you identify still *matter*, as they are counted as hits if they are accurately related to the picture, as were the curves in my example of Tin Man being perceived as an old-fashioned wrought metal stove with Queen Anne (curvaceous) legs. I also saw a man in front of the stove wearing oven mitts, and Tin Man's gloves look very much like them. I didn't say, oh, this picture is of characters from the Wizard of Oz, with Tin Man in the center, but I said enough that was accurate and considered hits to come in fourth place, which wasn't bad, really. It was fun, in any case. We knew nothing about the target pictures ahead of time. They were selected from a set of sealed envelopes which had been sealed by someone other than the sender. Fascinating thing with these kinds of tests is that often people pick up anyway on the unselected photos. The ones still sealed in the envelopes! It seems to relate to something they're emotionally more drawn to or something.

Really, you all ought to go to IASD's Psiber Dreaming Conference. You can see how they do it, and online, and it's effective and fun! Besides, you get prizes for the top three places, most of which are books about dreaming by various IASD members.

Info available here: <http://www.asdreams.org/index.htm>

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

If you alay down and and meditate, meaning just lay down and rest your body and mind, but don't fall asleep, when your head and body starts to vibrate you can focus the vibration...you can actually move it to where you want...It's very interesting.

How do you turn that into a astral projection?

As you said already, the best way is to move them rhtmically around your body while retaining a clear idea free mind. With practise you can begin using the various methods of disassociation, beginning with perhaps your hand and reach out for something lieing outside of your arms reach. A method like this will with time be enough to separte from you from the physical and begin your travel.