• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




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    1. #1
      numpa oyanke saxonharp's Avatar
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      The differences for me are subtle.

      In an OBE, the energy body separates from the physical body and is free to operate in non-common reality. Some call this alternate reality the Astral Plane, others call it the Nagual, or the Spirit Realm. Whatever you call it, it is an alternate reality that is very much associated with our shared 'common' reality but on a different level.

      A Lucid Dream allows a person access to the same information and experience without the necessity of releasing the energy body. Therefore, your energy body remains fixed within your physical body but without the restrictions your waking consciousness imposes.
      Be yourself - everyone else is taken.

    2. #2
      Moonshine moonshine's Avatar
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      They're the same thing.

      The elements that some claim distinguish OBEs from Lucid Dreams are, in reality, just variations of dreaming.

      As most lucid dreamers will tell you Dreams are very much driven by expectations.

      Everything from absence of body, to ghostly hands or silver ropes anchoring you to your body are simply dream elements.

      There is absolutely nothing that OBEers can give as evidence which can't simply be explained as being part of the dream.

      Heres the hilarious part. Say you have a False Awakening and find yourself in your bedroom. Then oops, you notice an extra window - OBEers will claim thats ok, your room just looks a bit different on the Astral Plane.

      Say you have a near perfect repreduction of your flat, and surprisingly find you can use your astral body to move a book around.
      Guess what, when you wake up the book hasn't moved.
      What do the OBEers say. You guessed it - the Astral Plane get out card.
      Lucid Dreams:-
      MILD/DILD: 79
      WILD: 13
      DEILD:13
      (TOTAL: 108 )

    3. #3
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      Hukif's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
      They're the same thing.

      The elements that some claim distinguish OBEs from Lucid Dreams are, in reality, just variations of dreaming.

      As most lucid dreamers will tell you Dreams are very much driven by expectations.

      Everything from absence of body, to ghostly hands or silver ropes anchoring you to your body are simply dream elements.

      There is absolutely nothing that OBEers can give as evidence which can't simply be explained as being part of the dream.

      Heres the hilarious part. Say you have a False Awakening and find yourself in your bedroom. Then oops, you notice an extra window - OBEers will claim thats ok, your room just looks a bit different on the Astral Plane.

      Say you have a near perfect repreduction of your flat, and surprisingly find you can use your astral body to move a book around.
      Guess what, when you wake up the book hasn't moved.
      What do the OBEers say. You guessed it - the Astral Plane get out card.
      Wrong, first, OBE would be considered a non-lucid if you don't believe in it, you know, the one who is having it knows its an OBE, not a dream, so can't be lucid.
      Now, as I has always seen it, OBE happens in the physical realm, while AP doesn't, and therefore, can't be separated from a dream. I don't think an OBE in which you see something weird in the room is ever an OBE, I only consider OBEs where you see something that you could not have guessed from when you were asleep, and comfirm it upon awakening (And there was no extra things to the enviroment), so don't generalize please <.<

    4. #4
      numpa oyanke saxonharp's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Walms View Post
      Wrong, first, OBE would be considered a non-lucid if you don't believe in it, you know, the one who is having it knows its an OBE, not a dream, so can't be lucid.
      Now, as I has always seen it, OBE happens in the physical realm, while AP doesn't, and therefore, can't be separated from a dream. I don't think an OBE in which you see something weird in the room is ever an OBE, I only consider OBEs where you see something that you could not have guessed from when you were asleep, and comfirm it upon awakening (And there was no extra things to the enviroment), so don't generalize please <.<
      So, just a word of temperance here; Since we are talking about personal views and beliefs, to state flat out that one is wrong is inappropriate at best and offensive and denigrating at worst. So, please, if you wish to be taken seriously, perhaps try to express your own personal opinion in a way that doesn't attempt to make someone else 'wrong' by theirs.

      I disagree with Moonshine's statement as well. However, it is their opinion and they are welcome to it. And, since this is an open forum, they are free to express that opinion in any way they wish so long as it is respectful. So far, it has not been 'disrespectful' though they have made certain statements of "fact" that may or may not be supportable.
      Be yourself - everyone else is taken.

    5. #5
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      OBE is in the astral plane, and dreaming is on the dream plane. The astral plane is between the dream and physical planes.

      When you have dreams of walking down the street at night, it could be astral.

    6. #6
      Overseer of oneirons Phantasos's Avatar
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      Holy god.. I should write tutorial about different schools of thought on what OBE and astral projection is as believers can not really agree among themselves what those term mean.

      As for OP's question: OBE means Out-of-body experience. At the very least, it means an experience when you feel like you is going out of body. During practice of WILDs it happens a lot. It does not mean that you have really went out of body just as flying in dream does not mean you were flying in real world.

      At the other side, a lot of dreamer held obsolete occult view that while OOBE your soul or «energy body» leaves your physical body and goes into real world or in some cases (depends on which school of esoteric thought dreamer belongs to) into "astral plane" (whatever it is - astral warriors do not have unified opinion on this matter as well).

      And by "obsolete occult view" I do not mean that being occult is the case. I mean that concept of "soul or something leaving the body" is more then century years old, and for this century years old world have moved a lot as well as occultism. The idea of something leaving your body and "Astral" is just plain boring. Even Grandpa Castaneda is way more progressive and modern than this.

    7. #7
      Hungry Dannon Oneironaut's Avatar
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      I always thought that they were the same thing. I think that most OBEs are dream initiated. I had an experience that changed my mind about them being the same. From then on I knew that although they are similar they can be quite different. If I explain it it sounds like a WILD but it was different. Of course you could say that I dreamed it different. They are related. They overlap. The best I can describe it is like an OBE is a higher octave (in musical terms) of a lucid dream. Or a lucid dream is like a visible color but an OBE is in the ultraviolet or Xray range. It is the same but way more intense and more real feeling. But trying to define the difference might be a matter of semantics and beliefs.

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