Thread: DILD Troubleshooting

Hello, viciouscirce, and welcome to the DILD class! Let's put our heads together and see f we can't come up with some ideas.

For the amount of work you've put in, I'd agree that you would expect to see more results. One thing to realize about lucid dreaming practice: it's intensely personal. Nobody can see directly into your mind but you, so one thing that's really important is frequent "reality checks" -- meaning: self-evaluation. Are you doing all you can? Is your intent strong enough? Should you try something new? Should you reasses your goals? Reaching out like you have here is a sign that you're doing this right now -- good!

I think from what you've written here that some fundamental adjustments would be beneficial. Lucidity in dreams comes about from: increased self-awareness and attention to the present moment, strong intent to be lucid in dreams, excellent dream recall (which includes having a close connection with and interest in your dreams), to name some of the most important factors. So working on these area would be the most profitable.

I also recommend reviewing the key literature. Re-reading once every year or two helps to remind us of the fundamentals. There's a sticky post in this DILD sub forum ("LD bibliography") with my recommended reading list. If you haven't read any of the dream yoga literature yet, I highly recommend t. If you have, re-reading it is also good

In particular, in "the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep", at the start of the practice section, there is a very important introduction that summarizes the entire practice, and how to self-evaluate your progress. In short: do you control your reaction to experience and remain in steady awareness, or does your reaction to experience control you?

in my opinion, to be lucid in dreams frequently requires being lucid frequently in general, also while awake, it means to be a lucid person, mindful and attentive to all experience (waking or dreaming) -- throw in a healthy dose of vigilance for the dream state (from strong intent to be lucid in dreams) and a close connection to your dreams (high recall is a sign of this), and you've got the recipe for lucid dreams.

An exercise I recommend is the day memory review: at the end of the day before bed, review your waking experiences just as if you were reviewing the dreams of the night, like you were preparing to write a "waking journal" entry (writing one if you have the time is also a good idea). Add to that by fixing particularly interesting or notable moments through the day that you specifically intend to recall spin the evening, and see how many of these you can "hit" during the day.

I'm also a fan of LaBerge's PM exercises and reflection/intention moments. I believe that ETWOLD is a complete program for LDding -- do everything he suggests in the DILD section (chapters 1-3) and dreams should start to become vivid, and LDs should start in a month rot two.

When someone has been practicing for the time you have, finding ways to keep it "fresh" is important. I find that the general goal of "I want to be lucid in dreams" is not very effective. Having specific, concrete goals makes LDs much, much more likely. Like "I want to try flying IronMan style" (I just did this last night, this helped trigger lucidity twice). Participating in the task of the month/year section of this forum and the "LD competition" that is held a few times per year can help with this.

Hopefully that will give you some ideas of where to take it from here. Let us know if you have any questions, and feel free to use this workbook to track your goals and progress!

Hello FryingMan! Thanks for your response.

While I haven't read up much on LaBerge's work, I do intend to. ETWOLD is next up for me. I also hadn't thought of keeping it fresh as you say, so I'll try different RCs and such.

I think I definitely have had trouble with separating myself from my environment and being self-aware. I know it would really increase my LDs but struggle with finding ways to help with that. Do you know of any on-the-go practices that help increase that or are meditation and similar excercises the only way?

Again, thanks a lot for your response!

Originally Posted by viciouscirce

Hello FryingMan! Thanks for your response.

While I haven't read up much on LaBerge's work, I do intend to. ETWOLD is next up for me. I also hadn't thought of keeping it fresh as you say, so I'll try different RCs and such.

I think I definitely have had trouble with separating myself from my environment and being self-aware. I know it would really increase my LDs but struggle with finding ways to help with that. Do you know of any on-the-go practices that help increase that or are meditation and similar excercises the only way?

Again, thanks a lot for your response!

I mentioned the day review already, that's a big one. Mindfulness is about accumulating more and more moments until you start noticing your "zoned out" (mindless) moments sooner and sooner.
It's a gradual process. You can at any time hold mindful moments. I like to just stop once in a while and affirm to myself "*I*....am *here*....*now*....having this experience."

LaBerge's PM exercises are another great way to stay engaged and vigilant throughout the day. Meditation is a means to and end: remaining mindful throughout the day: attention/mindfulness shouldn't end with the end of your meditation session, it should be the beginning, a jump-start so to speak.

The more you read/research, the more ideals you'll come across. The dream yoga literature is full of concrete things and exercises to do.

Similar to PM exercises, just having a daily "RC target" (I'll RC every time I <see/hear/smell/experience> <something/emotion/>) help to maintain vigilance and knowledge of the dream state and your intention to be lucid in dreams.

I like to hold "mindfulness walks" where I keep my awareness of my awareness with me and think frequently of dreaming and getting lucid in dreams. When I do a lot of those I end up having a burst of LDs in a week or so.

Just notice more and more your level of awareness: strive to notice those zoned out times, every time you notice one, you're lucid!

Wake back to bed is, in my opinion (and in the opinion of many lucid dreaming authors and teachers), one of the most powerful ways to have more lucid dreams now. If you haven't found a way to work it in, or to make it work for you, we can come up with some strategies.

The great thing about the excellent approaches FryingMan mentioned is that they are very fruitful in waking and dreaming! (Excellent responses FM - you are a natural born teacher and have a great knack for conveying information!)

Hi there fogelbise! Thanks a lot for your response! I do have a bit of trouble with WBTB because I'm not sure when I should set my alarm to (I know traditionally its at 6 hours when you project you would be in REM) because I tend to take a while to fall asleep but it varies every night. Any tips for this?

Thanks!
viciouscirce

Thanks a lot! Since your last response I really upped my game as far as RCs and being present go! I've been doing them with a lot more "meaning" per say and came up with different characteristics of reality or dreaming I find myself looking for all the time now. I had a brief lucid dream yesterday actually! My alarm rang and had to get up but I noticed there was more detail and I was constantly aware of myself separate from my environment. Thanks!

Originally Posted by viciouscirce

Hi there fogelbise! Thanks a lot for your response! I do have a bit of trouble with WBTB because I'm not sure when I should set my alarm to (I know traditionally its at 6 hours when you project you would be in REM) because I tend to take a while to fall asleep but it varies every night. Any tips for this?

Thanks!
viciouscirce

The best time to WBTB is the one that works best for you. Try different "waking" times and different durations of staying up: from just a few seconds to longer: 5/10/15/20/etc. minutes. It is a lot better to avoid alarms entirely -- you can fairly easily train yourself through intention to notice the wakings during the night (especially if you have to go to the bathroom, which you can encourage by drinking water before bed). Falling back asleep can take a while, but if you practice relaxation, that can make the process move along faster.

Congratulations on getting lucid viciouscirce! Lucid in a dream as well as more lucid during the day it sounds like.

FryingMan is right. It takes experimentation to find what works best for you. I wouldn't worry about timing it to exactly what stage of sleep you are in. As long as you are in the last half of your sleep you will be closer to REM. That said, ~4.5 hours is quite a bit better than 6 hours for me personally, but I do hear that 6 hours is better for some/many(?) people. I do not use alarms for WBTB but instead use the water method FM mentioned.

Like FM said, you are experimenting with both when to wake up for WBTB as well as how long to stay up, so that creates a lot of variations to experiment with. I have gotten pretty good at falling back to sleep, so I stay up quite a while (~20-60 minutes).