Thread: Loafs Dream Control Guide: Everything You Actually Need To Know

Exactly Mario, you may not have got in the air yourself, but you used the dream and trusted it, by using a backpack.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Exactly Mario, you may not have got in the air yourself, but you used the dream and trusted it, by using a backpack.

But my argument is this: I didn't actively get in the air by believing that I would the first time around. It took a random dream object and a lack of solid expectations to do so. I had to improvise and somehow rationalize my intentions. I think a foundation in improvisation would very nicely augment a strong belief.

Belief is the biggest part-- trust is additional. If you can't help yourself, your dream will.
Clearly you aren't ready to accept dream control can be a lot more 2D than you think-- that is why you fail. If you can't accept it consciously, good luck with your subconscious.

Or, perhaps it is you who thinks it is too flat. Perhaps there is more to it. More techniques, more points of view, more systems of thoughts that can unlock vast potential. As I recall, you've recently had a problem with becoming too lucid....your dreams felt fake and unrealistic. This phenomenon has been linked to forcefully controlling dreams. Perhaps approaching things in a different way could achieve not only a desirable result, but a more immersive and lifelike dream.

No, my trouble was I was putting too much emphasis on the fact the dream world was fake. Mastering control through clear approaches is not an issue. Maybe its just you can't accept the fact dream control is far more straight forward than you initially thought. Either you want it to be more difficult, or you are struggling. I've done the full circle of dream control, so I know what I am talking about when I say your dream will follow your thoughts if you concentrate.

In a dream, if we don't focus on a DC it disappears, because our dream is following what we are thinking. The subconscious plays a roll in this too, of course. But the fact is if we are thinking about something happening and knowing its happened before it already has, it will. And if you fail, you just aren't trying hard enough.

Here is a fact. It works for me, and it works for others. It might not be working for you, and thats not my fault. Its yours. You shouldn't be passionately arguing with me about it being a flawed theory when we are having success. Believe it works, and join us.

Originally Posted by Loaf

No, my trouble was I was putting too much emphasis on the fact the dream world was fake. Mastering control through clear approaches is not an issue. Maybe its just you can't accept the fact dream control is far more straight forward than you initially thought. Either you want it to be more difficult, or you are struggling. I've done the full circle of dream control, so I know what I am talking about when I say your dream will follow your thoughts if you concentrate.

Or perhaps I simply don't subscribe to the school of "this is it, and everything else is so much salad dressing." There are times and there are instances where not expecting something to happen can be more rewarding and more fun than trying to actively control every aspect of what you want to happen. Letting the dream have its own personality is perfectly fine. Your dream may surprise you or create a situation you never would have thought of before. Perhaps instead of saying "I want a .44 caliber sniper rifle with a silencer," you say "I want a really big and cool weapon that does neat things." You don't have to expect anything terribly specific, and your dream is free to fill in the blanks. You might end up with a rocket launcher that shoots lava missiles, or a can of silly string that spontaneously leaps into the air and shoots napalm at an attacker. Maybe you pick up a rock on the ground and tap it three times, not sure what to expect, only to have it transform into a little robot spider. Expectation can be helpful, especially if you're trying to accomplish a very specific goal, but not expecting something can be equally rewarding in terms of fun.

In a dream, if we don't focus on a DC it disappears, because our dream is following what we are thinking. The subconscious plays a roll in this too, of course. But the fact is if we are thinking about something happening and knowing its happened before it already has, it will. And if you fail, you just aren't trying hard enough.

The dream tends to place more emphasis on what you're actively looking at, sure, but I've seen dreams come up with fantastic scenery and textures from nothing that literally made me smack my gob. If you don't want a DC to disappear, go ahead and pay attention to it, but if you expect it will disappear, then it likely will. Again, sometimes not expecting can be better than expecting. If you don't expect the DC to disappear, it may just stick around a while longer. As for the not trying hard enough thing...I don't know about you, but I'd rather do some improvising than bang my head against a brick wall. For me, each successive failure only serves to make me less confident it will work. Achieving 100% confidence in something is much easier said than done. Drawing from your environment may have unpredictable results at times, but it certainly can help, and it can be fun.

Here is a fact. It works for me, and it works for others. It might not be working for you, and thats not my fault. Its yours. You shouldn't be passionately arguing with me about it being a flawed theory when we are having success. Believe it works, and join us.

It works, sure. I'm not denying that. My gripe is that you refuse to acknowledge that there are other methods. They may not be good methods, and they may not be accurate methods, but they are elements of dream control that I think are still important. A wise person would not deny these, but rather add them to their arsenal of control methods. Even if you never use them, knowing how to doesn't hurt anything, and it may just come in handy. I personally need to rationalize things. If I'm flying, I need a reason for why I'm flying. A propulsion system, a device that alters gravity, psychic energy, or yes, even a humble yet mysterious backpack. It's who I am and how I think. Belief certainly does a lot, but for when it isn't enough, being able to use two pebbles as a source of magic is a good skill to have.

Originally Posted by Mario92

My gripe is that you refuse to acknowledge that there are other methods.

Wrong Mario, I've never said anywhere this is the only method and nothing else works. I am saying this is the easiest and most straight forward way to control dreams, and it works.

You've been trying to tell me belief is not the only thing you need to control dreams, and now you are saying I ignore all other methods and that I don't let my dream produce exciting, random, natural events. Stop being stupid, here we are dealing with a way to control dreams accurately with no tedious methods. Letting dreams produce random results is a whole different story, so lets not lose sight of what we are discussing, thanks.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Wrong Mario, I've never said anywhere this is the only method and nothing else works. I am saying this is the easiest and most straight forward way to control dreams, and it works.

It works most of the time. There's always that room for error. Nothing in dreams is concrete.

You've been trying to tell me belief is not the only thing you need to control dreams, and now you are saying I ignore all other methods and that I don't let my dream produce exciting, random, natural events. Stop being stupid, here we are dealing with a way to control dreams accurately with no tedious methods. Letting dreams produce random results is a whole different story, so lets not lose sight of what we are discussing, thanks.

Letting your dreams do their own thing can be an effective form of dream control. If you become lucid mid-plot, it is quite possible that the dream's natural flow will lead you to achieve your goal. And perhaps I am looking too much into this, but when you say things like "Everything You Actually Need To Know" and "the kind of dream control that us pros use," followed by a tutorial explaining one facet of dream control, I get a bit concerned. You certainly do seem to be implying, at least initially, that there is one and exactly one method of dream control that does anything. Really, alternatives do exist. They may not be as straightforward and may be more tedious, and I'm not saying that the average person should focus on these methods, but I don't want them phased into nonexistence. They do have strengths, as well as weaknesses, as does every method. Remember, if you can, what it was like to be a noob at lucid dreaming. Achieving absolute belief is not as easy as you make it out to be, at least for some. In these instances, while it is beneficial to continue working with belief, looking for loopholes in the dream and exercising alternate means of control can keep a person interested in dreaming and avoid the frustration that seems to drive away so many people so quickly. Dreaming is about having fun, but it takes practice. Learning to trust your dreams and believe in something 100% takes time and patience. While someone learns how to do this, it is nice to have plans B, C, and D readily available.

We are all different. We are all like snowflakes. Some people struggle with the primary method of dream control. What do you say to these people? Suck it up and keep trying? Leave them in frustration? I prefer to offer an alternative. As compared to your mastery of belief, it may be more tedious and less precise, but when compared to that person's own skill with belief, it may prove a nice alternative, at least temporarily.

Thank you for the ad hominem, by the way. Well done to you.

Originally Posted by Mario92

but when you say things like "Everything You Actually Need To Know" and "the kind of dream control that us pros use,"

Its been clear you've been dwelling on the topic name. I saw a topic saying "everything you need to learn about dream control" so I found it amusing to make a variation of that name. Thats it. So you can get over yourself now.
As for the second line, that was clearly me joking. If I was serious I'd skip with the emoticons. I don't consider anyone a pro at lucid dreaming, I think we are all level in what we can do and it just takes a while for us to unlock our dreaming abilities.

We are all different. We are all like snowflakes. Some people struggle with the primary method of dream control. What do you say to these people? Suck it up and keep trying?

Actually, yes. If they believe and trust their dream (and not half heartedly, which is the feeling I'm getting from your attempts since you've been so set on saying this theory is wrong) it'll work for them eventually. It just takes a bit of concentration and belief.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Actually, yes. If they believe and trust their dream (and not half heartedly, which is the feeling I'm getting from your attempts since you've been so set on saying this theory is wrong) it'll work for them eventually. It just takes a bit of concentration and belief.

And what I'm saying is that while they're learning, if something doesn't work out, they can still have some fun with other methods of dream control. I have read and experienced accounts of frustration where something just won't work, no matter how hard someone believes or tries to believe. More often than not, these dreams end with premature awakening, a feeling of regret, or trying a different method of control. Since I find the first two outcomes undesirable, I don't see why the third one should take backseat to the first two. It is entirely possible for someone to learn belief and flex other methods of control.

Mario, you have completely missed the point. Let me go over some things.

- I'm not saying other methods of control are inadequate
- I'm not saying you can't use other methods and believe
- Belief itself can be all you need, in my experience and the experience of others

People who get frustrated have already gone wrong. You never get angry at your dream, as I said on the OP.

Never get angry at your dreamworld. Work together.

Frustration leads to feeling unable, which turns into doubt. I'll say it once and I'll say it again-- you aren't trusting your dream world enough.

We seem to be going in loops here, so unless you have anything useful to add I find it rather wasteful to argue about. You have made it evident you aren't will to accept my view, nor try it properly yourself. As I said before, I wonder if you are struggling with dream control and feel offended because it isn't as hard as you built yourself up to think. Or is it you don't want to be told the dream world isn't as flexible and unruly as you once thought. Because there are rules of the dream world, whether you will accept that or not. And mind power alone is what controls dreams, whatever method you use. This method just encourages trust and belief as a method of mind power.

Originally Posted by Loaf

People who get frustrated have already gone wrong. You never get angry at your dream, as I said on the OP.

Frustration leads to feeling unable, which turns into doubt. I'll say it once and I'll say it again-- you aren't trusting your dream world enough.

This is a learned behavior. It takes time to work. Whilst learning, I still want to have some fun.

We seem to be going in loops here, so unless you have anything useful to add I find it rather wasteful to argue about. You have made it evident you aren't will to accept my view, nor try it properly yourself. As I said before, I wonder if you are struggling with dream control and feel offended because it isn't as hard as you built yourself up to think. Or is it you don't want to be told the dream world isn't as flexible and unruly as you once thought. Because there are rules of the dream world, whether you will accept that or not. And mind power alone is what controls dreams, whatever method you use. This method just encourages trust and belief as a method of mind power.

But arguing is fun...

Of course I'm going to try your method and work toward it. But, I'm likely not going to use it as my only method. Even when I become very proficient at dream control, learning and using other methods is a nice challenge, especially if I find I've settled into a comfortable and predictable pattern of control.

You keep saying that it isn't that hard. It is hard for a lot of people who are starting out. Perhaps you don't notice it because you're a pro, but for the average dream control noob, it can be very challenging to just "believe and trust your dreams." Here's the thing: I know it's a dream world, and that my mind is in charge, but exercising control is an entirely different matter. It's like trying to flex a muscle you didn't know you had, and you aren't sure where it is. Eventually, a person can do away with justifications and improvisation, but it takes time to build that confidence and learn how it works. Now before you try and analyze me again, let me make this clear: because of my mindset and need for rationalization, my deep-seated need to know how things work, dream control is not cut-and-dry, black and white. It is still a strange and mysterious entity. The more I work with it, the more I will understand it and learn how to manipulate it. Until such a time, though, justification of my actions seems to be working most effectively. It is easier to think the jetpack to lift me into the air than it is to believe I'll just spontaneously start flying and know exactly what I'm doing. Maybe I'm being an idiot, or not trying hard enough, or whatever, but it works for me. One day, I'm sure I'll be able to just start flying on a whim with reasonable confidence it will work. Until then, jetpacks ahoy.

Hey if you fail at flying in your dream try another method of flying. The funniest method of flying I have ever used was swimming in the air. My method of causing things to appear in my dream is to think of them as already in the dream world just at another location. That way I dont have to MAKE anything I just MOVE it to where I want it to be. Same with taking one dream and turning it into a completely different one. i can just teleport from one dream to the other because they are all part of the same world.

Originally Posted by Waterknight

Hey if you fail at flying in your dream try another method of flying. The funniest method of flying I have ever used was swimming in the air.

I do that, I do the doggy paddle type thing.

Ive only ever used that method once because in the dream I wanted to go swimming without getting my clothes wet. I THINK im not sure but I think I fly in my dreams because I made a story character based on myself that has the ability to fly. So I just pull on that fiction and just know that I can fly I dont have to jump or anything I just sorta lift off.

Ive also turned into a bird before after reading one of the pendragon books