Thread: The Infinite Universes of Lucid Dreaming

Wow. I actually tried this out today and the results were astounding.

In my dream, I was running across a field for some reason or another, and it occured to me during the dream that I was lucid. Immediately after this happened, I remembered this post and to relax and all that jazz and this is what happened:

The dream had been a little fuzzy and the colours were fairly muted right before I had gotten lucid. The instant I realized I was lucid, relaxed and realized that I was locked in for some fun for bit it was as if I had taken a filter off a camera. The colours changed first, becoming vibrant and full, and then a second later everything seemingly came into focus. I could've been standing in the actual field in real life and not been able to tell the difference.

The dream continued on and I figured that I would test out my new found confidence by taking a little test flight. The thing is that I usually have difficulty achieving any sustained flight. Either I'll only be able to jump really high, or not achieve proper height, or only be able to fly for a few moments before slowly descending back to the ground. However, this time I simply rocketed into the sky. It was effortless. I actually made it from this barren field to a gigantic city that I could see from the sky. There were no issues with altitude loss or struggle with control.

I don't really know what else to say. In one dream, this 'technique', if you can even call it that, has paid off for me in spades. IMO this should be required reading for everyone on this forum. I mean what's the point in having lucid dreams if you can't do anything in them, right?

so billybob you are saying all we have to do is believe that when we jump through it will take us ANYWHERE we want and it will happen?

Great thread, and great concept. No new techniques or everything, but a whole different way to think about LDs... if I start to get lucid again (had a looooong break) I will certainly follow these advises. Thanks.

I'll try this out, but tbh, this seems pretty obvious to me this is going to work. Even in real life, you get what you expect to get, so it's sure to work in dreams. Thanks alot for the info BillyBob ^^

amazing
as always

Just reading this has changed my way of thinking even more! I already thought some of it, such as that I wouldn't let things such as some people not able to fly/having trouble flying get in my way in my own dreams. I decided to have as much confidence as possible and believe I could do anything.

Luckily, in this case, I read this post before I had more LDs and started worrying too much about stabilizing my dream and stuff. I didn't bother doing that in my last LD and it was just fine (although I couldn't summon the pumpkin or walk through the wall like I was trying to do; I did manage to fly).

So yeah, reading this has only cemented my confidence, so thank you. Definitely coming back and rereading this when I have a few more LDs.

BillyBob, you've really changed my way of thinking of LD's! I had my first one last night, and guess what the first thing I did was? I did some stabilization techniques! I started spinning around and rubbing my hands, just because I've read about so many people waking up right after they get lucid. Sure it "worked", but the LD only lasted for like 1-2 minutes before I woke up. In the next LD I get, I'll totally try this out, I just know it will work!


I'll let you know when I've tried it!

Hi Billybob, thanks for all the knowledge sharing

Im pretty new to LD'ing and I am glad I stumpled across this thread, THIS SHOULD BE A STICKY!!!

I have read a lot on this forum, it's all very interesting, but when I look back on all these "laws" you mention, they are pretty silly. Like "Closing your eyes will make you wake up" "spinning will wake you up" etc..

3 days ago I had a short LD, I looked at my hand because I remember discussions on the DV forum, well I had 3 and a half finger on my hands. Was it because I thought it was a "law" and thus my expectations created the hand with the missing fingers?

Do you Billy see your hand as normal or do you miss fingers, if you do miss fingers, what is the reason?

Next time I will see my hand as normal.

Think of how many people that are new to Lucid Dreaming (like me) that come here and read about what will make you fail, thousands must have slipped out of dreams because of that.

Specialis Sapientia,
I've been thinking about that too.
Are you able to breathe even though you pinch your nose because it's like that in the dream world or because that's what you've come to expect after learning it here on the forum? Would you have false awakenings if you hadn't read about them here?

This should really be the FIRST thread you read when you come to this forum.

You're a pure genius, this is starting to run my head in loops. We are creating boundaries and laws within our dreams without even meaning to do so. We're leashing ourselves because we believe that something will happen if we don't. But think about it. If someone has a lucid dream and has never heard of "grounding" then their dream is never going to break down. Because its just illogical. But if something has told us if we don't ground ourselves our dream will suddenly break down that then suddenly becomes logical and will most likely happen...

Our mind is a giant sponge soaking in information, then, setting those barriers in our mind. If we believe that there are no boundaries...

Thanks for reviving one of the greatest topics ever in DV history, but if it died once it will again... I just wish people could could understand this and stop spamming the forms with problems w/ Dream control and hence creating the same problem for future LDers

Just wondering BillyBob if you have been to Middle-earth yet. Or, in more general terms how this tech has been working out for you of late. Has it really opened up infinite Lucid universes?

Belief has no part in dream control. Beliefs are just archetypical structures like any other which can be used in dreams with random consequences.

In a recent lucid I tried to telekineticaly bend some trees with my hands, like parting tall grass. I believed I could do it, otherwise I wouldn't have fucking tried it! But it didn't work.

Instead what happened was that my trying to use my hands for telekenesis activated the archetype of "Magic hand powers", which randomized with every single instance of hand powers I know. I had recently watched and animated Iron Man movie, so that was fresh in my mind, and that's what the archetype randomly landed on. I ended up with an Iron Man perversion where I was shooting spotlights out of my hands.

Another example of why belief fails is when it is used in conjunction with the word "NOT". You walk around in a dream saying "There are NOT going to be zombies, there are NOT going to be zombies..." over and over, and it's just a matter of time until zombies show up.

Don't beleive in beleiving!

First, BillyBob hasn't posted in years...

Secondly, the reason believing doesn't work for so many people on these forums is that through constant reading of threads users Schemata are being programmed to always have a doubt that something will work. Heck I don't go around in dreams saying "There will be no zombies" Instead if I'm lucid I'd you my dream control to make the most elaborate scene of a summoning ever. And then I use matrix powers to obliterate the zombie back to where it game.

You could TRY this buy it wouldn't work because you've read and now BELIEVE that you will wake up when not using passive control. Your schemata is now programmed to fail when you try something like this.

(I know I'm not making much sense. This is just my angry ranting on how much this forum is actually HURTING dream control)

How was the LOTR universe? was it hard to hide from the all seeing eye? did you team up with the elfs in the very beggining againts mordor?

BillyBob hasn't posted since like 2007/2008... He won't be able to answer that

Originally Posted by Huntman800

(I know I'm not making much sense. This is just my angry ranting on how much this forum is actually HURTING dream control)

You make perfect sense. In fact I'm thrilled you actually know what you're talking about, because it shows people are actually starting to understand how dreams work. I've noticed a major shift on DV of people who suddenly get it, and the accepted views on how dreams work around here is starting to reflect that. Don't be shy with your posts, we're reaching critical mass to understand how dreams work and how control really works.

In defense of billybob, attention of belief would make it work. That and I has had things be without the need of my attention, or at least concious one which is the attention I think you always refer to (The Cusp). If not, my bad <.<
But yes, it isn't hurting dream control, it is just not up to date...

You have no idea how awesome this is for me.

For two whole weeks before I knew what LDs were, I had them close to every night. But it was when I tried to find answers about it and started doing RCs and trying to remember what I'm supposed to do in the dreams that everything started being...blah. I was really starting to get discouraged. I actually did wonder if I should just stop all the "methods" all together. This makes so much sense! I'm really excited now!

I'm definitely gonna do this tonight. Thanks BillyBob! I'll be sure to post if it works!

Originally Posted by Huntman800

Thanks for reviving one of the greatest topics ever in DV history, but if it died once it will again... I just wish people could could understand this and stop spamming the forms with problems w/ Dream control and hence creating the same problem for future LDers

Good point. I've often thought that reading about the problems others have would only serve to limit the possibilities of my own dreams.

Talking about fantasy worlds from popular fiction also seem to me to be limiting in a sense. The power of imagination and the power of our minds is infinite. If our lucid dreams resemble our waking reality in any way then we are still amateurs (I say this not even being more than a novice yet let alone an amatuer)

When I first read 'The Lucid Dreamer' by Malcolm Godwin what intrigued me most was his contention that at first new lucid dreamers will see things that closely resemble their waking life but as they progress they realize that their lucid worlds are bound by absolutely nothing.

Running through a paper door, stepping through a mirror with no expectations at all is what I hope to do someday. What is on the other side? A world that is indescribable in any human language perhaps. To expect anything at all is anathema.

Originally Posted by RightWhereItBelongs

Talking about fantasy worlds from popular fiction also seem to me to be limiting in a sense.

I don't think of those as limiting, I think of them as expansive. It's just another unique Lego piece you have available to build with. Only instead of Lego, it's an archetype.

Each piece has it's limitations, but you're not limited in the selection of archetypes you can use, you are only limited by the Lego pieces you possess.

Originally Posted by RightWhereItBelongs

I've often thought that reading about the problems others have would only serve to limit the possibilities of my own dreams.

That's a very real possibility, but you're not really limiting yourself, only changing the shape of one particular Lego piece, or rearranging the connections of a particular archetype.

Reliable dream control requires using stable archetypes, ones that don't change or have a lot of variations. When you read all kinds of different outcomes associated with certain techniques. you are reshaping the possible outcomes that technique can provide you.

But reading on stuff online doesn't have as much of an influence as actually doing things in dreams, so I really wouldn't worry about it too much. Especially since the control archetypes of most lucid dreamers are already tragically flawed to begin with.

When a first time LDer decides to shout "More light!!!" for the first time and it doesn't work, that creates a fundamental link to failure with that technique. And as long as that dreamer uses that technique, he will always encounter random failures as a result. You can alter the odds of success by having more attempts where it works, but there will always be that possibility where it doesn't.

well these laws that you came up with are true for beginners like myself. Once a person gets good enough they no longer apply and they truly can do whatever they possibly want. Lucid dreaming is hard to understand even for people who know how to do it, yet alone people who have never had one.

Originally Posted by RightWhereItBelongs

Good point. I've often thought that reading about the problems others have would only serve to limit the possibilities of my own dreams.

Talking about fantasy worlds from popular fiction also seem to me to be limiting in a sense. The power of imagination and the power of our minds is infinite. If our lucid dreams resemble our waking reality in any way then we are still amateurs (I say this not even being more than a novice yet let alone an amatuer)

When I first read 'The Lucid Dreamer' by Malcolm Godwin what intrigued me most was his contention that at first new lucid dreamers will see things that closely resemble their waking life but as they progress they realize that their lucid worlds are bound by absolutely nothing.

Running through a paper door, stepping through a mirror with no expectations at all is what I hope to do someday. What is on the other side? A world that is indescribable in any human language perhaps. To expect anything at all is anathema.

Name and avatar combined discourages anyone from taking this seriously.

Originally Posted by Bizarre Jester

well these laws that you came up with are true for beginners like myself. Once a person gets good enough they no longer apply and they truly can do whatever they possibly want. Lucid dreaming is hard to understand even for people who know how to do it, yet alone people who have never had one.

No! This is not true whatsoever, your limiting yourself! I'm in a dry spell right now (which is why I haven't bothered posting in forever...) But once you can have a lucid dream it's up to YOU to have extremely mastered dream control or none at all.

It seems pretty obvious that a child would find this easier as little to no parts of their mind are bound by reality. But that doesn't matter. It's all science, you think something impossible in a world created by what your thinking, how could it happen?