• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    Results 1 to 24 of 24
    1. #1
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2004
      Location
      Discordia
      Posts
      3,239
      Likes
      533

      Talking Potential Discovery for Dream Control

      I'd like to share a personal discovery I made whilst dreaming that vastly improved my control over supernatural power and influence of the environment.

      I had what appeared to be the longest lucid dream I've ever gotten to experience, just last night. I was able to attempt a number of different things that were not related to each other without the inconvenience of waking up and starting a new dream to continue. About halfway through, I was standing in a dimly lit hallway when I was thinking about what next I should try, and I was bringing to mind much of what I had read earlier in the day from the forums for ideas. I remembered the thread DuB made regarding neuroscience and whether or not it will tell us anything about the mind, and how a part of Juroara's reply echoed a thought I had about dream characters. This thought went along the lines of "All dream characters are a manifestation of your mind. They are pieces of yourself that you can interact with. Some of them, however, are more like personified memories of other real life/fictional characters". The idea, of course, was founded upon the fact that a dream occurs in your head and is subject to no significant outside influence while the dream is in play.

      So, I thought of this while I was lucid and began to wonder how it was possible that my brain could be creating personalities for multiple dream characters at the same time without me being consciously aware of it. Just then, I was struck by an idea. I wanted greater control of my dream, and I knew that my brain was working to keep the dream characters around me speaking coherently. I felt that getting rid of the DCs might be analogous to getting rid of unwanted system processes on a computer so that a desired process could run with greater effectiveness. At that moment, I closed my eyes and imagined the dream characters long gone (I had to close my eyes a second time to make their disembodied voices leave as well).

      With no observable character in the dream besides just my whole self, I felt a rush of clarity and possibility open up. Things were more easily alterable, or creatable, or destructible. I had wondered then to great awe if I really made a discovery that could enhance dream control for everyone. And that is where my proposition comes up for those willing to experiment a little more with pushing the boundaries of a lucid dream. You can call it an experiment really, since I do not know on how great a scale this will work for others.

      Erasing your dream characters, even temporarily, may increase dream control.

      Give it a shot, and don't forget to post back with your results.
      Last edited by Invader; 04-21-2009 at 03:44 AM. Reason: Making title politically correct.

    2. #2
      FightingDreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Higurashi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2008
      Gender
      Location
      Here
      Posts
      757
      Likes
      3
      That was an interesting read.

      I have one question though. You mentioned that this was perhaps the longest lucid you've had yet, and you did not wake up at periods throughout the night having to re-enter/restart the dream.

      Were you saying that the length was possibly caused by the deletion of the dream characters? Or was it already getting lengthy before you had the idea to remove them? What technique induced the lucid, also?
      Last edited by Higurashi; 04-21-2009 at 04:13 AM.

    3. #3
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Location
      Ottawa, Ontario
      Posts
      4,878
      Likes
      644
      DJ Entries
      192
      interesting theory. When it comes to dream characters, I say kill 'em all!

      I have pretty good dream control and never bother with DCs. Unless of course they're hot!

    4. #4
      q t pi
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      LD Count
      90009
      Gender
      Location
      Paraguay
      Posts
      1,897
      Likes
      24
      DJ Entries
      5
      Seems to be the opposite with me. I have very little DC's and poor control, which I am working on. Quite possibly there is one sneaky dream character hiding, stalking, ready to strike!
      if you can read this then you are about to be punched

    5. #5
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2004
      Location
      Discordia
      Posts
      3,239
      Likes
      533
      Quote Originally Posted by Higurashi View Post
      Were you saying that the length was possibly caused by the deletion of the dream characters? Or was it already getting lengthy before you had the idea to remove them? What technique induced the lucid, also?
      The dream was already long before having meddled with the dream characters, so I don't feel that their deletion had any effect on time (but you never know!). It was also dream induced. Some odd event occurred that made it apparent I wasn't awake.

      @The Cusp: That's usually my stance as well, minus mass killing. I save that for when I'm feeling particularly mean.

      @hellohihello: Aye, that's good to know. Perhaps if you can put yourself in a social environment whilst lucid and afterwards attempt to 'get rid' of the DCs in whatever way you deem appropriate, maybe then you can tell if there's a difference or not.

    6. #6
      FightingDreamer Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Higurashi's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2008
      Gender
      Location
      Here
      Posts
      757
      Likes
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
      The dream was already long before having meddled with the dream characters, so I don't feel that their deletion had any effect on time (but you never know!). It was also dream induced. Some odd event occurred that made it apparent I wasn't awake.
      I see, thanks

      I do wonder at that "event" o.O

    7. #7
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2004
      Location
      Discordia
      Posts
      3,239
      Likes
      533
      Ah, meteors the size of semi trucks hit the ground a few dozen feet from me and didn't leave a mark on the ground, but rather smashed open into many pieces when I was expecting large craters (and death, hah). A pretty good dream sign if I ever saw one.

    8. #8
      The i's are invisible. Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Tagger First Class Made lots of Friends on DV Vivid Dream Journal Populated Wall 10000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Mzzkc's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      LD Count
      l҉ots
      Location
      Present Day. Present Time.
      Posts
      2,362
      Likes
      1674
      DJ Entries
      179
      So, I made a point to try this last night. No luck.

      I think I went about it the wrong way, though. I closed my eyes and tried to focus my efforts and attention on all the DCs in my dream scape in an attempt to snuff them out of existence in one fell swoop. Obviously, it didn't work.

      Next time, I'll direct focus inward and ignore all outside objects except my surrounding environment. They can't exist without my attention, right The Cusp?

    9. #9
      q t pi
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      LD Count
      90009
      Gender
      Location
      Paraguay
      Posts
      1,897
      Likes
      24
      DJ Entries
      5
      There were a few DC's in my lucid this morning. I actually had more control. I made a sword appear from thin air and focused my energy on it. Every time I swung it, it flung out energy waves. I forgot to do my task though
      --
      Tomorrow when I WILD and succeed, I will get rid of the people and see the difference.
      if you can read this then you are about to be punched

    10. #10
      Member Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Elkfazer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Gender
      Location
      London
      Posts
      118
      Likes
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
      I felt that getting rid of the DCs might be analogous to getting rid of unwanted system processes on a computer so that a desired process could run with greater effectiveness. At that moment, I closed my eyes and imagined the dream characters long gone (I had to close my eyes a second time to make their disembodied voices leave as well).
      Sounds like a good thing to try, but instead of closing your eyes and risking destabilising the lucidity too much, maybe you could actually "Ask" the dream to "Remove all dream characters!" ?.

      I read in a book recently where the author was testing the validity of who was actually controlling what was in the dream ie: our consciousness, the subconscious, or indeed some other outside force. I was amazed when he tried this slightly altered version where he asked "Remove all dream thoughts" from a crowded room of people and say out of 10 dream characters in the room, 3 still remained. He then proceed to question them further on what or who they were and what they represented. Quite mind bending stuff actually and not quite what you're after, but your topic just reminded me of it.

    11. #11
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Location
      Ottawa, Ontario
      Posts
      4,878
      Likes
      644
      DJ Entries
      192
      Quote Originally Posted by Mzzkc View Post
      Next time, I'll direct focus inward and ignore all outside objects except my surrounding environment. They can't exist without my attention, right The Cusp?
      You got it! When I say I kill my DCs, I don't really. That would require focusing on them, which is counter productive. I basically ignore them to death.

      Even making a conscious effort to get rid of them all requires too much focusing on them.

    12. #12
      bаnned yuriythebest's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Gender
      Posts
      982
      Likes
      23
      well, DC's do tend to destabilize my dreams by distracting me- most types f contact with DC's makes me wake up. However I think the dream became clearer for you because you expected it to.
      TAKE DV members advice with caution! some have had zero or 1-2 LD's yet act like gurus
      TOTAL LD's (almost all DILD/MILD) =160!!
      new goals: have more LD's than Shift[X]
      10-15min LD [ X] Article: A day in the life of an LD-er
      the "Mind V.S. Body" Induction technique
      Everyman 2 LD's/ sleep schedule progress

    13. #13
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2004
      Location
      Discordia
      Posts
      3,239
      Likes
      533
      Quote Originally Posted by Elkfazer View Post
      Sounds like a good thing to try, but instead of closing your eyes and risking destabilising the lucidity too much, maybe you could actually "Ask" the dream to "Remove all dream characters!" ?.
      Being able to 'blink' things out of existence in my dreams was something I began doing maybe two years ago, and it just came naturally without causing any immediate changes for the environment. I've never asked out loud for things to happen, but it's worth trying. As far as generic verbal commands go, I've only begun using those more recently. Can you tell me the name of this book you speak of as well?

      Quote Originally Posted by yuriythebest
      However I think the dream became clearer for you because you expected it to.
      That's a possibility I've taken into consideration, absolutely. A sort of placebo effect, if you will. But that's the beauty of asking others to try the same thing. If the phenomenon is genuine, there ought to be a positive effect on dream control every time. If it only works as a placebo, though, it should be destined to fail every now and then.

    14. #14
      Member Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Referrer Bronze Veteran First Class
      Elkfazer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      Gender
      Location
      London
      Posts
      118
      Likes
      3
      Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
      Being able to 'blink' things out of existence in my dreams was something I began doing maybe two years ago, and it just came naturally without causing any immediate changes for the environment. I've never asked out loud for things to happen, but it's worth trying. As far as generic verbal commands go, I've only begun using those more recently. Can you tell me the name of this book you speak of as well?
      I think asking out loud for things to change or for more information from the dream itself rather than the characters within might be a good technique, I'll try it too once I'm able to have more frequent lucids in the first place.

      The book I've been reading which involves these techniques is called Lucid Dreaming - Gateway to the Inner Self by Robert Waggoner. It's a very good read and a good companion book to EWOLD except in this case this book deals more about the lucid dreaming state than about the Induction methods.

      There's loads of great detail on Precognitive Dreams, the "Conscious Unconscious" as he puts it, Dream Characters, Dream Guides, Healing, Mutual Dreams, OBE's and talking to the deceased.
      Last edited by Elkfazer; 04-22-2009 at 07:35 PM.

    15. #15
      q t pi
      Join Date
      Dec 2008
      LD Count
      90009
      Gender
      Location
      Paraguay
      Posts
      1,897
      Likes
      24
      DJ Entries
      5
      Was going to try again today, but I thought I failed.. I did a nose reality check but it didn't work so I thought I wasn't. I'll let you know tomorrow.
      if you can read this then you are about to be punched

    16. #16
      Member
      Join Date
      Jan 2009
      Posts
      112
      Likes
      0
      If it only works as a placebo, though, it should be destined to fail every now and then.
      Dreams work around expectations - placebo ALWAYS works.

      Which is a good thing. Anything that you expect would give you more control (erasing characters, rubbing hands, kicking a lemon), will do it. Go with it if you're a sociopath

    17. #17
      bаnned yuriythebest's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Gender
      Posts
      982
      Likes
      23
      Quote Originally Posted by Mertruve View Post
      Dreams work around expectations - placebo ALWAYS works.
      not if you think the placebo won't work. hmm this leads me to a paradox.

      1.You wholeheartedly believe that removing characters increases dream quality. You do so and they go away and dream quality indeed increases. No proof here since it might be a placebo

      2.You are unconfident/not totally sure if removing characters increases dream quality. Lets assume for a moment that's the case. However since you don't fully think it'll work, while your brain gets more "resources" it won't use them and the dream will destabilize since you think it won't work.


      conclusion: if believing/doing something helps in your dreams then do it!!
      TAKE DV members advice with caution! some have had zero or 1-2 LD's yet act like gurus
      TOTAL LD's (almost all DILD/MILD) =160!!
      new goals: have more LD's than Shift[X]
      10-15min LD [ X] Article: A day in the life of an LD-er
      the "Mind V.S. Body" Induction technique
      Everyman 2 LD's/ sleep schedule progress

    18. #18
      Level 5 WakataDreamer's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 2008
      LD Count
      Ω
      Gender
      Location
      California
      Posts
      807
      Likes
      16
      DJ Entries
      5
      Yuri's right. The whole "I believe that removing DCs will increase clarity, so it does" placebo thing could give a false positive. Or, conversely, a false negative, as he also said, if it does indeed free up more resources but your brain doesn't use them because you believe that it won't work or probably won't, or are in doubt of it. Thus, it doesn't.

      D'you get it?

      How can we for-sure prove that this works or doesn't, taking these false positives and negatives into account? Maybe we could have the tester post their attitude towards this theory (previous to the experiment, of course) along with their results, to see if it does indeed have an impact on whether it works?

      Even Invader's could be a false positive, because he

      Quote Originally Posted by Invader
      felt that getting rid of the DCs might be analogous to getting rid of unwanted system processes on a computer so that a desired process could run with greater effectiveness
      ...
      so, his brain gave him the results that he thought had a good chance of being plausible.

      Last edited by WakataDreamer; 04-22-2009 at 11:38 PM.
      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      im back bitches

      WakataDreamer's Dreamworld - My DJ

      (Very outdated... I'll start a new one when I get some free time)


      Project Pandora [B]
      ~ I'll give this some attention, maybe get it going again some time in the future

    19. #19
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jan 2004
      Location
      Discordia
      Posts
      3,239
      Likes
      533
      Quote Originally Posted by Mertruve View Post
      Dreams work around expectations - placebo ALWAYS works.
      Quote Originally Posted by WakataDreamer
      so, his brain gave him the results that he thought had a good chance of being plausible.
      How many times have people expected to fly, or to fly faster than they could normally, only to find failure? What about expecting to land a deadly punch on a foe, to find your fist sliding through air in slow motion as if through jelly? I have expected to be able to do plenty of things that ended up creating more problems than I had started with (a great example in my case would be with 'energy blasts', which I am consequently terrible at).

      If, on the other hand, placebos DID always work in dreams, then my premise "I am God, I can do anything" would find zero resistance whilst dreaming. For the sake of clarification though, the lucid dream in which I erased the DCs became altogether clearer, and much more defined. I was expecting to be able to perform to a greater degree, not to see clarity improve.

      Quote Originally Posted by WakataDreamer
      How can we for-sure prove that this works or doesn't
      It's happening in your mind, you can't really prove it.
      We may at least be able to test it's validity as a useful dream control tool on behalf of what people claim their experience was like.

      Just give it a try, and post your results. That's all I ask. I do not expect this idea to be infallible. You do not have to expect it to work while trying it.



      And thank you, Elkfazer. Next time I'm at the bookstore...
      Last edited by Invader; 04-24-2009 at 01:11 AM.

    20. #20
      The i's are invisible. Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Tagger First Class Made lots of Friends on DV Vivid Dream Journal Populated Wall 10000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Mzzkc's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      LD Count
      l҉ots
      Location
      Present Day. Present Time.
      Posts
      2,362
      Likes
      1674
      DJ Entries
      179
      Quote Originally Posted by Invader View Post
      It's happening in your mind, you can't really prove it.
      That's not true, you can prove ANYTHING if you throw enough science at it!

      Because that's how science works.

      I should have made a point to try this again earlier today on my insane string of WILDs/DEILDs/DILDs (8 dreams total, 6 were lucid, all fit into a two hour time span). I got caught up trying to do a single task for pretty much all of them. I failed miserably each time. x.X

      At least I was able to stick to the one task. I think this idea may have some credibility to it, so I'll do my best to try it out.

    21. #21
      DreamSlinger The Cusp's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2006
      Location
      Ottawa, Ontario
      Posts
      4,878
      Likes
      644
      DJ Entries
      192
      Quote Originally Posted by Mzzkc View Post
      That's not true, you can prove ANYTHING if you throw enough science at it!
      Oh yeah? Prove it!

      I'm reminded of the movie Contact I saw on TV last week, where the science chick is asking the religious guy for proof of God's existence. He asks her if she loved her dead father, and when she says yes, he tells her to prove it. Some things are beyond proof.

    22. #22
      Member Achievements:
      1000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      John11's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 2008
      Gender
      Posts
      509
      Likes
      33
      I like having DCs in my Lucids. It seems to prolong them for me. It's true that I don't think as clearly when they are around (or I am thinking clearly and they all act like statues), but I'd rather have longer slightly less controllable lucids than extremely clear extremely short lucids.

      My longest and favorite lucid had tons of DCs. I wasn't thinking as clearly in it as in a lot of my other lucids, but that wasn't apparent to me at the time, so I didn't care anyway and I had a blast. Also, since I wasn't thinking clearly, I was able to able to use special powers more easily than I normally could (my logic of what should and shouldn't work tends to get in the way normally).

    23. #23
      The i's are invisible. Achievements:
      Referrer Bronze Tagger First Class Made lots of Friends on DV Vivid Dream Journal Populated Wall 10000 Hall Points Veteran First Class
      Mzzkc's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      LD Count
      l҉ots
      Location
      Present Day. Present Time.
      Posts
      2,362
      Likes
      1674
      DJ Entries
      179
      Quote Originally Posted by The Cusp View Post
      Oh yeah? Prove it!

      I'm reminded of the movie Contact I saw on TV last week, where the science chick is asking the religious guy for proof of God's existence. He asks her if she loved her dead father, and when she says yes, he tells her to prove it. Some things are beyond proof.
      Hence the verbal irony, but I think you caught that. ;-P

    24. #24
      Member
      Join Date
      Sep 2008
      Posts
      11
      Likes
      3
      So to test the Placebo effect effectiveness, try a different placebo to accomplish the same thing. Say instead that generating a TON of DCs will enhance your dream control, since you created all of them, and all of them should be able to help you accomplish your next task. Like a giant focused network. Just think of each of them as atoms of your mind working towards the same goal as you.
      If you can get them all to focus your power more, then the number of DCs present won't disturb your ability to alter your dream.

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •