ABORTION: Where do you stand?

**buriedmonsters** · 05-24-2011 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

It's a matter of practicality. Why bother carrying a fetus to almost-full-term only to abort it? It's a huge waste of time and bodily resources.

I agree, it really isn't practical.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Lives have value because people give them value. There's no reason to assume that we have "souls" or whatever fantasy-like crap people want to come up with. To say that there's no point to life and that actions are inconsequential without the existence of a soul is rather amusing (and sad). I live as if souls don't exist, along with millions of other people, and where's the evidence that we're all running around saying "nothing matters! do what thou wilt! we're all worm food anyway! worthless!"

If you do not have a soul, were not created for any purpose, and will simply rot into the ground and cease to exist when you die, then you have no worth. Useless people cannot give other useless people value. Your life has no meaning, no matter how much you wish it did, and if I kill you it doesn't matter. You are of no more worth than an animal, and people have no problem killing them so they can eat. It is sad, but if that's what you believe, then that's your reality.

**sloth** · 05-24-2011 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

I agree, it really isn't practical.

If you do not have a soul, were not created for any purpose, and will simply rot into the ground and cease to exist when you die, then you have no worth. Useless people cannot give other useless people value. Your life has no meaning, no matter how much you wish it did, and if I kill you it doesn't matter. You are of no more worth than an animal, and people have no problem killing them so they can eat. It is sad, but if that's what you believe, then that's your reality.

I believe that would be your reality too, if he is correct.
Believing differently wouldn't change that.
If I believed that I would live in a candy castle and ride magical unicorns made out of opium when I die, would that make it happen?

**Descensus** · 05-24-2011 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

If you do not have a soul, were not created for any purpose, and will simply rot into the ground and cease to exist when you die, then you have no worth. Useless people cannot give other useless people value. Your life has no meaning, no matter how much you wish it did, and if I kill you it doesn't matter. You are of no more worth than an animal, and people have no problem killing them so they can eat. It is sad, but if that's what you believe, then that's your reality.

Look, you can test out your argument by assertion skills all you want, but you're really not progressing the conversation. At all. You're just saying things as if they're true without showing any evidence. I mean shit, Mario asked you for evidence of souls and all you came up with was an argument from the majority!

**buriedmonsters** · 05-24-2011 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Look, you can test out your argument by assertion skills all you want, but you're really not progressing the conversation. At all. You're just saying things as if they're true without showing any evidence. I mean shit, Mario asked you for evidence of souls and all you came up with was an argument from the majority!

LOL, reality is reality. You don't like to think you have a useless existence because you don't like it. You can't show me any evidence that your life has worth. Guess what, I can give "meaning and purpose" to a pile of cow shit, that doesn't mean it actually has meaning.

You don't have a soul? That's cool. You may as well go kill yourself now, because You. Are. Worthless.

**Descensus** · 05-24-2011 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

LOL, reality is reality. You don't like to think you have a useless existence because you don't like it. You can't show me any evidence that your life has worth. Guess what, I can give "meaning and purpose" to a pile of cow shit, that doesn't mean it actually has meaning.

You don't have a soul? That's cool. You may as well go kill yourself now, because You. Are. Worthless.

Are you going to substantiate your claims? You can't assert your way out of a logical fallacy.

**Descensus** · 05-24-2011 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Some things cannot be physically proven. Sorry, you will not be able to explain everything in life with the limited intelligence that humans posess. Prove to me that I don't have a soul. You can't. It's a difference of opinion, and it's okay to disagree.

So then don't claim with certainty that souls exist and that without them, life is worthless, if that can't be "physically proven," whatever that means.

Prove to me that we do have a soul. You're the one making the existential claim here, not me, and it's what your whole argument is based on. I've only said that I don't think they exist, not that they don't as a fact.

**Maria92** · 05-24-2011 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Well, different people will give you different answers on that. Personally, I believe my soul was made by the Creator, and my whole purpose is to please Him and bring Him glory. That includes my life here on earth, and I think the only one who should end my earthly life is the Creator. That's what gives me purpose. Other people don't agree with that, and that's cool. I just find it a little silly to say that we are literally just monkeys with better vocabularies.

This explains a lot, and demonstrates your massive incomprehension of evolution.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Some things cannot be physically proven. Sorry, you will not be able to explain everything in life with the limited intelligence that humans posess. Prove to me that I don't have a soul. You can't. It's a difference of opinion, and it's okay to disagree.

There is a teakettle in the asteroid belt. Unicorns and leprechauns exist. There is a giant comet that will impact earth in one week, but it's invisible. If you give me your entire life savings, I'll return them to you at 3000% value.

Prove me wrong.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

LOL, would it make you feel better if I said I "think" souls exist? Do we really have to play word games like that? I never said, "I have solid proof souls are real", I said this is my opinion, meaning this is what I think.

If you're going to make claims, assertions, and decisions that impact the lives of others (in this case, stating that those who get abortions are immoral, that a fetus is exactly equivalent to a human life), you better make goddamn sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence.

**buriedmonsters** · 05-24-2011 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mario92

This explains a lot, and demonstrates your massive incomprehension of evolution.

Oh honey, I'm not here to argue the existence of the Creator with you. I'm glad it explains a lot for you though.

Originally Posted by Mario92

There is a teakettle in the asteroid belt. Unicorns and leprechauns exist. There is a giant comet that will impact earth in one week, but it's invisible. If you give me your entire life savings, I'll return them to you at 3000% value.

Prove me wrong.

All that argumentative crap right there? Not taking the bait, sorry.

Originally Posted by Mario92

If you're going to make claims, assertions, and decisions that impact the lives of others (in this case, stating that those who get abortions are immoral, that a fetus is exactly equivalent to a human life), you better make goddamn sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence.

And if you are going to kill something that could possibly be a human life, you better make fucking sure you're 100% correct and be able to substantiate your claims with evidence. So far, you are not able to prove that a soul does not inhabit a fetus. Therefore, it is possible that by aborting a fetus, you may possibly be killing a soul.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

This is no word game, as there is a difference between what one believes to be true and what one can demonstrate to be true.

Your argument rests on the assumption that without souls, life has no meaning and purpose. That much you have claimed with quite a bit of certainty. To substantiate it, you would have to prove that (1) souls exist and that (2) they give meaning and purpose to life. You've yet to do any of that.

Good lord...you love circular arguments, don't you? If I am wrong in my belief that without souls, there is no meaning/purpose to life (any more than a chicken has meaning/purpose), please, show me proof that I am wrong! You are a useless being. Just because you WANT to have purpose doesn't mean you do.

**Descensus** · 05-24-2011 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

LOL, would it make you feel better if I said I "think" souls exist? Do we really have to play word games like that? I never said, "I have solid proof souls are real", I said this is my opinion, meaning this is what I think.

This is no word game, as there is a difference between what one believes to be true and what one can demonstrate to be true.

Your argument rests on the assumption that without souls, life has no meaning and purpose. That much you have claimed with quite a bit of certainty. To substantiate it, you would have to prove that (1) souls exist and that (2) they give meaning and purpose to life. You've yet to do any of that.

**Descensus** · 05-24-2011 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Good lord...you love circular arguments, don't you? If I am wrong in my belief that without souls, there is no meaning/purpose to life (any more than a chicken has meaning/purpose), please, show me proof that I am wrong! You are a useless being. Just because you WANT to have purpose doesn't mean you do.

Don't shift the burden of proof. You're the one making the claims. Substantiate them or reveal your insincerity.

**♥Mark** · 05-25-2011 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Guess what, I can give "meaning and purpose" to a pile of cow shit, that doesn't mean it actually has meaning.

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Meaning and purpose are human projections, not inherent qualities of things.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Well, different people will give you different answers on that. Personally, I believe my soul was made by the Creator, and my whole purpose is to please Him and bring Him glory. That includes my life here on earth, and I think the only one who should end my earthly life is the Creator. That's what gives me purpose. Other people don't agree with that, and that's cool. I just find it a little silly to say that we are literally just monkeys with better vocabularies.

So your only value lies in the fact that you are a slave to a master who created you to serve him? And you have the audacity to tell people who are free but without a sould that they are worthless? Despite the fact that they and others may value them and that they may value themselves?

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Some things cannot be physically proven. Sorry, you will not be able to explain everything in life with the limited intelligence that humans posess. Prove to me that I don't have a soul. You can't. It's a difference of opinion, and it's okay to disagree.

Prove to me that it's impossible to prove that you have a soul.