Reason for Riot

**Photolysis** · 08-11-2011 11:42 AM

I can't give an exact figure because it's all very situational due to the way benefits stack in the UK. The system is pretty complicated, to say the least.

There are several hundred thousand homes that take in over £400 per week. Something like 50,000 homes have benefits that are greater than the average wage. Bear in mind that obviously unlike a normal salary this is all untaxed and exempts you from numerous other charges, making it equivalent to a much higher salary and giving much more disposable income.

Although with the current state of psychology, anyone could be diagnosed with a disorder and say they are disabled. So that would have to be changed too.

That's actually another problem with the system: disability benefits. What constitutes a 'disability' these days is so open-ended that many people are getting it who aren't really disabled. My grandmother is one of these in my opinion, and UK taxpayers can sleep soundly at night knowing they're providing her with a car because she's overweight and suffers minor pain when walking. Ironically, my other grandmother actually does legitimately qualify for it (again, in my opinion) due to rapidly deteriorating lung functions, but refuses to claim benefits because in her mind she's not disabled. Which, to be fair, is a commendable attitude, even if I feel it is misguided in this case.

**tommo** · 08-11-2011 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Photolysis

I can't give an exact figure because it's all very situational due to the way benefits stack in the UK. The system is pretty complicated, to say the least.

There are several hundred thousand homes that take in over £400 per week. Something like 50,000 homes have benefits that are greater than the average wage. Bear in mind that obviously unlike a normal salary this is all untaxed and exempts you from numerous other charges, making it equivalent to a much higher salary and giving much more disposable income.

Oh wow lol
I think in Australia it's something like $200 every two weeks.

**StonedApe** · 08-11-2011 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Many kids today have no respect, partially because they have no fear.

I think it has much more to do with the fact that they have no real human intimacy than having no fear. Real respect does not come out of fear, but out of understanding and seeing the value, the humanity, of someone. Our society doesn't really care about people any more, they are just consumers who can be taken advantage of. These kids have shitty parents that then send them to shitty schools, no one really ever gave a damn about them. Even the teachers who do really care about their students can't do anything because you can hardly connect with a child when there are 20+ other kids running around, and then 9 months later the kid has a different teacher. There's no human relationship, no intimacy, no tenderness, just harsh bullshit, which shouldn't be respected, not that that justifies a riot, but it certainly can cause one.

**Spartiate** · 08-11-2011 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by tommo

Photolysis just said you do? Why such differing opinions?

Photolysis lives about 5000 km away and across an ocean from me.

**Original Poster** · 08-11-2011 07:26 PM

‎"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs and tyrannize their teachers." Socrates (469-399 BC)

**StonedApe** · 08-11-2011 08:52 PM

What was the context of the Socrates quote?

**tommo** · 08-13-2011 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Photolysis lives about 5000 km away and across an ocean from me.

Oh.... lol
You were talking like you were in the UK too.
EDIT: Oh okay, I just interpreted it wrong.

**Sornaensis** · 08-13-2011 10:47 PM

**tommo** · 08-14-2011 03:17 AM

Heh.... that guy was the reason SKA left these forums lol
Yeah he's a fucking moron. Don't really get why you posted that here. It doesn't bring any new points to the table.
You probably agree with him. I knew you were a moron, but geez.... really?

**Darkmatters** · 08-14-2011 03:38 AM

Wait - Tommo, what do you mean SKA left because of him? I was wondering where SKA was at. He left because some assinine ultraconservative prick posts YouTube videos?

**Spartiate** · 08-14-2011 03:46 AM

Ultra-conservative?

**Darkmatters** · 08-14-2011 03:51 AM

Sounded ultraconservative to me!! I could hear Bill O'Reilly saying that. And I like how you didn't deny that he's an assinine prick...

**Spartiate** · 08-14-2011 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Sounded ultraconservative to me!! I could hear Bill O'Reilly saying that.

He just sounds fed up. English police is notorious for being soft. It's not like all liberals have to be emotional pussies that make excuses for the bottom class. Not everyone is a "hippy liberal".

And I like how you didn't deny that he's an assinine prick...

Well he is British

.

**Darkmatters** · 08-14-2011 04:10 AM

OK, point taken. I'd still like to know what he had to do with SKA leaving??

**tommo** · 08-14-2011 03:12 PM

Oh I posted a video a while ago of this guy.
It was regarding the insane amount of muslims in Holland.
Apparently the population there is like 70% muslim.
And I was wondering why this was the case, since the values of that country are
the complete and utter opposite of the islamic traditions and values.

I basically posted it to get people's views, coz I really didn't know a whole lot about it.
He took it the wrong way, thinking people who had responded agreed with him.

He left very shortly after that.

**Xei** · 08-14-2011 03:54 PM

Anti-Muslim videos in general are very alarmist and incorrect in basic ways. Doing a quick fact check, in 2002 5.5% of the Netherlands was Muslim. In 2006 only 3% said they were religious non-Christians.

**tommo** · 08-14-2011 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Xei

Anti-Muslim videos in general are very alarmist and incorrect in basic ways. Doing a quick fact check, in 2002 5.5% of the Netherlands was Muslim. In 2006 only 3% said they were religious non-Christians.

Yep, not sure where he got that info. I think I did some very lazy research. And found that 70% statistic as well. And just assumed it was correct.

**Photolysis** · 08-14-2011 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Sounded ultraconservative to me!! I could hear Bill O'Reilly saying that. And I like how you didn't deny that he's an assinine prick...

What is it with Americans blindly throwing around terms like "ultraconservative"? I shouldn't even have to point out the obvious fact that UK is very different to the US, and that the backdrop to the recent riots (and many of Condell's videos) is a lot of heavy left-wing politics which have had very negative impacts on the UK, particularly on the justice and benefits system.

It's "ultraconservative" to want to go further to the right when you're already far over there. It's not when you're standing in the left zone and want to take a more middle ground.

I don't agree with all of what Pat Condell says (especially in the above video), but he does make some valid points in general.

Apparently the population there is like 70% muslim.

Don't remember ever hearing that kind of statistic from him. Source please?

**tommo** · 08-14-2011 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Photolysis

Don't remember ever hearing that kind of statistic from him. Source please?

Lol as if I'm ever gonna remember which video it was. He's probably got hundreds of videos up. I'm not searching them all.

**Darkmatters** · 08-15-2011 01:04 AM

Ok, when I said ultraconservative, it was partly just that I felt I needed another word in between assinine and prick!

I had never seen the guy before and don't know his political leanings. But when I hear somebody ranting while throwing out a whole string of angry insults toward the entire lower class and basically blaming them for the situation they're in, I generally think ultraconservative. I seriously thought he was about to suggest shipping them off to fight in the war as a solution!!

**Xei** · 08-15-2011 01:25 AM

Was he throwing insults towards the entire lower class or was he just throwing insults at criminals? I don't think he provided any intelligent commentary but I'm pretty sure it was the latter.

And what's wrong with insulting criminals? There comes a certain point where we have to say that an individual is in some part culpable for their own actions.

**Black_Eagle** · 08-15-2011 02:11 AM

Entitlement, materialism, laziness. Enough said.

Edit: And opportunity.

**Darkmatters** · 08-15-2011 02:27 AM

Aw geeze guys!! As I already said, the term ultraconservative was ill-chosen as a last-second afterthought - I was just responding to the hateful ranting and blaming I heard, without having paid much attention to what he really said. Admittedly I haven't followed this issue, I really just wanted to find out why SKA had left, and watched the video in a kind of offhand bored way just to see what the guy was like before posting.

I know what I said made it easy to attack me, but I've already stated that I now understand I was wrong.

My mistake was that I entered a political debate when I'm not really concerned with the political issues, and then I rather stupidly made political comments (repeatedly, I'll admit that right now) when I should have just simply asked "What happened to SKA?"

And like a damn fool I started stepping on political landmines strewn all about. I'm evacuating now while my limbs are still intact!

**tommo** · 08-15-2011 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Aw geeze guys!! As I already said, the term ultraconservative was ill-chosen as a last-second afterthought - I was just responding to the hateful ranting and blaming I heard, without having paid much attention to what he really said. Admittedly I haven't followed this issue, I really just wanted to find out why SKA had left, and watched the video in a kind of offhand bored way just to see what the guy was like before posting.

I know what I said made it easy to attack me, but I've already stated that I now understand I was wrong.

My mistake was that I entered a political debate when I'm not really concerned with the political issues, and then I rather stupidly made political comments (repeatedly, I'll admit that right now) when I should have just simply asked "What happened to SKA?"

And like a damn fool I started stepping on political landmines strewn all about. I'm evacuating now while my limbs are still intact!

LOL!!!! wut?

Why did you post this two times after people had already understood you didn't choose your words very carefully?
Nobody was criticising you for saying ultra conservative. Spartiate said it once, and you responded.

Anyway, I agree with you, he is a conservative, angry moron.