Thread: SO can we just throw the senate and congress out on their asses already?

Originally Posted by StonedApe

I'm serious, all these people occupying wall street should just march on congress and physically throw them out.

This would only result in a lot of dead hippies.

StonedApe, although I agree that the congress are just as evil as the Empire in Star Wars (seriously), I don't think mob rule would solve anything. Such a notion only leads to more powerful governments (see Russia c. 1917).

I've been reading a lot about this all evening. It's pretty fucked up. I can't really do anything about it, since I'm Danish, but such a law will definitely have some consequences, both in long and short run, for the rest of the internet. Please, if you're an American, try to stir up some shit, post this on facebook, contact your representatives or whatever. This will actually hurt the internet, for everyone, in a noticable way, and the only purpose of it is for the entertainment industry to grab more money (although it'll probably hurt them, since they will be losing all that free advertising, word of mouth and so on).

The people on Wall St. should have physically thrown them out already. This is just the icing on the cake.

Open letter from several companies regarding the bill.
http://politechbot.com/docs/sopa.goo...ter.111511.pdf


SOPA would also grant the Justice Department the right to target internationally operated websites, as well as domestic ones.

Tell me, how does America honestly think they can pass a law which applies to every other country as well?
How the fuck does that even work?

The people must get back control of their state legislatures. It is the local vote that counts the most. Once this is done, the states can nullify all unconstitutional federal laws. This is the only peaceful way to shrink the government once again. Once enough states have done this, the bad amendments can be repealed and the criminals thrown out. If war must result, it will be at the decision of the fed and not the people. See the Kentucky resolutions of 1798 for more info.

Of course, people need to educate themselves in liberty before doing anything; but I guess I am expecting too much there. It is much easier to stand in the middle of the road with an Ipod and stamp your feet.

Originally Posted by Never

The people must get back control of their state legislatures. It is the local vote that counts the most. Once this is done, the states can nullify all unconstitutional federal laws. This is the only peaceful way to shrink the government once again. Once enough states have done this, the bad amendments can be repealed and the criminals thrown out. If war must result, it will be at the decision of the fed and not the people. See the Kentucky resolutions of 1798 for more info.

Of course, people need to educate themselves in liberty before doing anything; but I guess I am expecting too much there. It is much easier to stand in the middle of the road with an Ipod and stamp your feet.

Really, how much longer are we going to be subjected to "if only we get the right people in government, then everything will be fine!" notion? Disinterest in governmental power is something even the "Founding Fathers" were incapable of having and conservatives like to tout them as demigods.

Originally Posted by tommo

Tell me, how does America honestly think they can pass a law which applies to every other country as well?
How the fuck does that even work?

lol No but, seriously.... do they just do it because no one stops them? Or is there some actual law allowing them to do so?

They do it because they can. Because the US hasn't yet lost its "wooooo #1" status in the world, though we will eventually (I'm not trying to be negative or anti-American, but let's face it, no society stays on top forever).

Originally Posted by Laughing Man

Really, how much longer are we going to be subjected to "if only we get the right people in government, then everything will be fine!" notion? Disinterest in governmental power is something even the "Founding Fathers" were incapable of having and conservatives like to tout them as demigods.

I didn't quite say those things, but that's okay.

Originally Posted by Never

I didn't quite say those things, but that's okay.

Originally Posted by Never

The people must get back control of their state legislatures.

Did you not by saying this?

I did not mean to imply that it was a cure-all. It may not pan out so well, or it might go an entirely different and unforeseen direction. The point is to get people to think smaller than the congress, as local officials are more accessible to the people, and taking it one step higher, it is way easier to win a state than the central power, which runs itself at this stage.

Originally Posted by Never

I did not mean to imply that it was a cure-all. It may not pan out so well, or it might go an entirely different and unforeseen direction. The point is to get people to think smaller than the congress, as local officials are more accessible to the people, and taking it one step higher, it is way easier to win a state than the central power, which runs itself at this stage.

How about secession down to the individual level?

It's more likely that we're gonna end up having a world government. Good luck getting any change through them.

Originally Posted by tommo

It's more likely that we're gonna end up having a world government. Good luck getting any change through them.

Hopefully we hate each other too much for that. *Prays that the world is unable to get over their differences*

I disagree with physically overthrowing the government, because chances are it will only set up a worse system (very few overthrows have made governments BETTER. It took years of trial and error with the Articles of Confederation before we set up a fairly functional Constitutional government.) If we're sick of the government overstepping their bounds, maybe we should vote 3rd party? I will be, most definitely.

[laughing man]

I'm not sure if I follow you, or if you were being sarcastic. You don't give me much to go on.

I live in the woods much of the time on principle; it doesn't get much more stubborn than that, and still I have to take part in the system to some degree, or I die or go insane; well too late on the last bit. You sacrifice everything, gain nothing, and nobody will ever know or care; in fact they usually think you are stupid.

We need communities; if you can get states to go Anarcho-capitalist, well then okay, I'll take that over the guaranteed oppression of the current state, but I think it more likely to attain "minarchy" before anarchy. Moreover, I feel it is a much safer mode of improvement, as we have something to fall back on; something that has been done before and can be done better this time around. What do you think? Or am I way off on your perspective?

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

Hopefully we hate each other too much for that. *Prays that the world is unable to get over their differences

Something tells me you don't have to worry about that.

Besides, I don't see how a global government, formed in the near future, could possibly remain stable for very long.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Something tells me you don't have to worry about that.

Besides, I don't see how a global government, formed in the near future, could possibly remain stable for very long.

That's a very refreshing, calming thing to hear as a Libertarian. (Note the difference with libertarianism and anarchism; we still want government, but it should do just a few things, keep roads, protect individual rights, and simple things like a fire department. The rest is basically anarcho-capitalism).

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

but it should do just a few things, keep roads, protect individual rights, and simple things like a fire department. The rest is basically anarcho-capitalism).

Originally Posted by Supernova

Whaaaaaaat??

.

I'm not exactly in my right mind tonight... so yeah. O.o

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

If we're sick of the government overstepping their bounds, maybe we should vote 3rd party? I will be, most definitely.

Maybe???? lol I've been voting 3rd party since I was allowed to vote.

Weeell this will be my first Congressional election in which I can vote (I did get to vote a couple weeks ago, though!) so yeah, I'm excited about that.

Originally Posted by Never

[laughing man]

I'm not sure if I follow you, or if you were being sarcastic. You don't give me much to go on.

I live in the woods much of the time on principle; it doesn't get much more stubborn than that, and still I have to take part in the system to some degree, or I die or go insane; well too late on the last bit. You sacrifice everything, gain nothing, and nobody will ever know or care; in fact they usually think you are stupid.

We need communities; if you can get states to go Anarcho-capitalist, well then okay, I'll take that over the guaranteed oppression of the current state, but I think it more likely to attain "minarchy" before anarchy. Moreover, I feel it is a much safer mode of improvement, as we have something to fall back on; something that has been done before and can be done better this time around. What do you think? Or am I way off on your perspective?

I think you are off. Disinterest in government power is unsustainable. You may start off with a small government but I believe it will not have an incentive to stay that way. You would need a static political society in which everyone has the same conception of the role of government and no one can deviant beyond that role because you would need a constant majority to maintain the role. You would need constant watchmen over bills to make sure it does not extend the powers of the state. I just do not see that happening. It will grow. Strike the root and it will whither.

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

That's a very refreshing, calming thing to hear as a Libertarian. (Note the difference with libertarianism and anarchism; we still want government, but it should do just a few things, keep roads, protect individual rights, and simple things like a fire department. The rest is basically anarcho-capitalism).

Follow the NAP to its logical conclusion and libertarianism = anarchism.