Thread: What Happened to the Anti-War Movement?

The government lies because its afraid of what americans will do with the truth. If we all knew the truth of 9-11 just the day after, not only would there not be a war but several very public politicians would be in jail.

With the internet we have the truth at our fingertips, yet nothing has happened or will happen. Look what Snowden brought to light about the NSA, have we done anything about it?

There's also the issue that those in the military have sworn an oath to the constitution and do not consider american citizens their enemy. The military would sooner turn on the government before ever blatantly attacking a city at home. Which is why so many war vets formed their own occupy or have joined/formed armed citizens militias (which is kinda scary to me!).

I hope that's true, but if the people were to all-out revolt you better hope the Military can think for itself without leadership having strategically place out top brass with theirs. Just out of curiosity, how many has the current admin. replaced?

So in the end, the government knows her people are not powerless. The american spirit is still alive, a bit bruised and nasty, but still there. We will protest, fight, and die for our rights. So if the government is tyrannical and wants to maliciously control us (which it sure as hell does) it can only resort to manipulation. Which has been going on for a long long time.

Well you're right about one thing, we're certainly die for them. As an aside I don't want you guys to think I'm a statist, I just believe governments won't change from within due to their size, and we as a people are foolish in believing we can change them from the outside. I mean what are we talking here, anarchy?

Right, and how many drones do you think it would take to completely destroy your entire town?

See the bigger picture?

Oh no you've shown doubts of the official 9/11 story, thus discrediting yourself and everything you've said.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

Oh no you've shown doubts of the official 9/11 story, thus discrediting yourself and everything you've said.

waaaah!

Alright it won't let me delete that post but it was in response to Juroara and I'd also like to respond to Rums03:

You're right, it's not purely lack of information, it's also general apathy and a belief that we are powerless, one that you are continuing to convey. The job is not to inform the public that our government is derailed alone. It's also to change the public's belief about their own power to change things.

After Snowden revealed the NSA scandal, very few people took action. They did not know which action to take, and they feel distant from their government. Our president won't hear us, only provide lip service, and our congress is a fucking zoo with barely a voter turn-out.

But people can and have changed things. When you engage with your local senators and representatives, they do listen because on that level your voice does matter. Small groups of activists can replace them, and they know it. Especially if you pester them, don't leave them alone. Organize, on the local level, a group of people against government spying, collectively bring those concerns to your representative and watch C-SPAN, watch them flop on a dime against it.

That's not anarchy, that's working through pre-existing channels. The difference is you don't just let shit go, you bitch and you moan through the right channels until change happens. You don't fucking give up. You think it was easy for MLK to lead the change that overtook our nation? Of course not, but people back then thought change was just as hopeless as everyone today thinks it is. He changed their minds. We can change this ethos of hopelessness, too. It was manufactured in the first place, and it can be reversed.

That's not anarchy, that's working through pre-existing channels. The difference is you don't just let shit go, you bitch and you moan through the right channels until change happens.

It's too big for that to happen or it would have already.

You don't fucking give up. You think it was easy for MLK to lead the change that overtook our nation? Of course not, but people back then thought change was just as hopeless as everyone today thinks it is.

People don't believe it's hopeless, they know it's pointless.

He changed their minds. We can change this ethos of hopelessness, too. It was manufactured in the first place, and it can be reversed.

Your fantasy as to how small groups can change it from within is a totally new concept, huh? I can't believe no one hasn't thought about it yet. I told you in a roundabout way what the answer is, but it won't happen and if it does we'll be annihilated. You think America needs Americans?

These aren't new ideas, they're very old ideas. People have simply forgotten that they work. It has happened already, over and over again. And yet the next generation must constantly be retaught that it does work, because we're always taught the opposite by every mainstream media outlet in the business.

wait. So you think 9 11 is justified? Whatever al quaida's message was, killing innocent civilians is inhumane, and definetly caused more battles.

Who are you talking to?

The americans don't need to do all the work. Once the movement and protests get discently wide, USA's enemies will work on getting the president out, and they aren't dumb, theu will also know how to tear the corrupted part of the goverment. Then a new president comes. Again, some USA enimies just want peace.

I haven't seen US intervention to aid revolters end well in any other nation so other nations aiding a US revolt doesn't appeal to me much, either.

I'd rather keep our current infrastructure mostly intact. Replacing one puppet with another is not going to solve our challenges. The president is merely the face, behind which we're dealing with runaway industrial complexes and financial institutions that have effectively placed the government in their pocket by means bribery combined with propaganda. In order to solve these issues we need to reverse the propaganda.

Originally Posted by Original Poster

I haven't seen US intervention to aid revolters end well in any other nation so other nations aiding a US revolt doesn't appeal to me much, either.

I'd rather keep our current infrastructure mostly intact. Replacing one puppet with another is not going to solve our challenges. The president is merely the face, behind which we're dealing with runaway industrial complexes and financial institutions that have effectively placed the government in their pocket by means bribery combined with propaganda. In order to solve these issues we need to reverse the propaganda.

That's what I meant by other nations not being idiots. They will know how to reverse the propaganda(or remove the corruption from it's roots). But so it seems that this is not a sound idea. God help us all

Since its conception, the people of the country have been fighting for their voice in government. It didn't start as a people's government, nor did it start as a tyranny. It has always been a compromise and a struggle. The bill of rights was a victory for the people, the dismantling of the national bank was a victory for the people, unions were a victory for the people, civil rights were a victory for the people, minimum wage and social security were also victories for the people. These were not things the elitists and subjugators ever wanted. But we won them anyway and these were hard won victories. Now you throw it all away by giving into hopelessness. You throw away every veteran that died for this country because you're giving up. You claim to know we can do nothing, well we've already done it OVER AND OVER AGAIN so what you know is bullshit.

I'd also like to put in, to add some perspective, the president is so powerless he may very well secretly be begging for massive reform movements to take power back from the lobbies.

If any other country would want to take the US over, it would be bcz what they do to middle east. Then again, they may not be kind to the US people. The only solution is for the US people to take a stand against the corruption. First thing that should be done is to stop the media from their lies to the US people.

Originally Posted by LouaiB

If any other country would want to take the US over, it would be bcz what they do to middle east. Then again, they may not be kind to the US people. The only solution is for the US people to take a stand against the corruption. First thing that should be done is to stop the media from their lies to the US people.

The #1 thing that needs to happen in the U.S. is the vast majority of the people realizing that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are two wings of the same party and that it is about big government, deception, and corruption. The "I'm voting for him because he's better than the other candidate" mentality has to be transcended. So does the relentless, unconditional dedication to political parties. Too many Americans put their political parties ahead of what they are supposed to stand for, and they will support their parties and politicians even in the face of 180 degree betrayal. As long as people keep voting for evil because it is the lesser of two evils or because they like what their party once stood for and identify with the party unconditionally, we will have a government infested with corruption. When we get past that, we can start really cleaning things up.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The #1 thing that needs to happen in the U.S. is the vast majority of the people realizing that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are two wings of the same party and that it is about big government, deception, and corruption. The "I'm voting for him because he's better than the other candidate" mentality has to be transcended. So does the relentless, unconditional dedication to political parties. Too many Americans put their political parties ahead of what they are supposed to stand for, and they will support their parties and politicians even in the face of 180 degree betrayal. As long as people keep voting for evil because it is the lesser of two evils or because they like what their party once stood for and identify with the party unconditionally, we will have a government infested with corruption. When we get past that, we can start really cleaning things up.

Surely you're not suggesting we just stop?

Completely True!

just stop what?

Originally Posted by episode24

just stop what?

Everything. Don't go to work; don't go to school; don't pay your bills; don't put fuel in your car; don't go to the store; don't do anything. To hell with the government, we can rebuild the barter system from the ground up and form our own society. Sounds absurd, huh?

As long as people keep voting for evil because it is the lesser of two evils or because they like what their party once stood for and identify with the party unconditionally, we will have a government infested with corruption. When we get past that, we can start really cleaning things up.

Originally Posted by Rums03

Everything. Don't go to work; don't go to school; don't pay your bills; don't put fuel in your car; don't go to the store; don't do anything. To hell with the government, we can rebuild the barter system from the ground up and form our own society. Sounds absurd, huh?

Where did you get all of that from what I wrote?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Where did you get all of that from what I wrote?

I've already made it clear revolt won't work, what else should I think? You're telling us what we already know:

As long as people keep voting for evil because it is the lesser of two evils or because they like what their party once stood for and identify with the party unconditionally, we will have a government infested with corruption. When we get past that, we can start really cleaning things up.

But every solution you or anyone else has offered hasn't nor will work. So, what should I have come away with in your post?

Originally Posted by Rums03

I've already made it clear revolt won't work, what else should I think? You're telling us what we already know:

But every solution you or anyone else has offered hasn't nor will work. So, what should I have come away with in your post?

Are we even having the same conversation? I was talking about voluntary changes in voting. I said nothing about everybody dropping out of society or starting a revolt.

okay, i'm visualizing it all right now. one problem. eventually i'm going to get hungry.

Originally Posted by episode24

okay, i'm visualizing it all right now. one problem. eventually i'm going to get hungry.

You don't know what barter means, then. How bout you chew on that for a while, I'm sure eventually you want be as hungry.

i thought you were supposed to point out how i don't know where food comes from outside the marketplace.