Murder vs Indifference

**snoop** · 07-29-2015 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ginsan

But you seem to find that completely justified while I see it as a major bug in human nature.

If justified is your word for it, then sure. I don't claim to be anything other than I am. If what I am is decided by other human beings rather than myself, then if you call me a bad person for it, then I am. No one's world view is really any more important than anyone else's. I choose to care mostly only for my own perspective because I don't see why I should make myself feel worse about what I do or don't do more than I already do for things. If you think it's a problem you're more than welcome to, I don't expect to engage with you more than this because it's clear we are at a simple disagreement that won't be changed by words on the internet alone.

The reason I see no problem with what I do the most is that I have power of my own to influence what is going on in my life. I also have my own network of people I have come across with and chosen to become friends and family with to rely on as a support group. I don't expect people to help me for no reason because I refuse to do so myself, unless I'm dying right in front of them (in which case I would also help). The golden rule here is limited to exactly as it is written in my case. Do unto others as you would have them do to you. That doesn't mean I expect everyone to help me when I'm down, because for the most part I can take care of myself and very much prefer it that way. I don't like feeling indebted to others, and its' unavoidable for me if people give me help. It's the type of person I am. I am extremely loyal to those I love and am friends with and would go to extraordinary lengths in order to make sure they go through life without as much suffering as possible, and even enjoyably. I do so expecting they do the same for me. They don't have to, but I begin leaving those who wouldn't do the same for me behind.

As you can see, I have created through my own actions my own support group, and beyond extraordinary emergency situations, through my own power have been able to save humanity from having to spend useless effort trying to spread themselves too thin trying to care about literally everybody. If everyone did things the way I did it, and those who are able develop a network of friends and family that act as their support group, you don't need everything you are talking about. Now instead of everyone trying to solve very large problems, everyone is trying to solve smaller (more easily accomplished) goals and we end up at the same result: most everyone is cared for. People are not completely helpless, and I find it sad and often even disgusting when I witness those who put virtually no effort into trying to make things work for themselves. They have the power to do something but refuse to for whatever reason. Obviously this isn't the case for everyone, I won't make that argument, but it's foolish for that fact to be used against me at the same time.

So, after explaining myself, I'm guessing you will still disagree with me. That's absolutely fine, but I wanted to get my perspective out there, if nothing else for conversation's sake.

**Ginsan** · 07-29-2015 09:16 PM

I really appreciate you writing all that, I can imagine that it took significant effort to do it, because I always have to think deeply and be concentrated to do it.

I want to point out something about the first paragraph. I don't think other people's viewpoints are completely irrelevant and I think you would agree with this. If other people tell you why they think a certain way and why they disagree with you, they might convince you that you were not completely right. And if their arguments are powerful enough, or maybe they say something you just hadn't thought of yet, you might agree more with what they said than with what you were thinking at the beginning of the conversation, it's a result of an open mind having a conversation.

I also don't like being indebted to people. I make some effort to become less self-interested, less arrogant, worry less about embarrassment and be more compassionate, open up to the suffering of others (yes it's the same thing), being warm-hearted and genuinely caring about the well-being of others. But I don't like to think negatively about other people for not helping me, because I find that this way of thinking is simply not useful. Most people, including myself, most of the time, see the world from their own perspective. So thinking "why did she do that to me?" only makes sense from your own perspective, but not from other people's perspective. I hope you get my point, even though I found my explanation a bit vague. And this paragraph is just my personal preference and I doubt that it's really up to argument, because people are just motivated by different things. Argument and conversation is only useful because it can be used to show someone how they actually agree with you, if they only see things the way you do. If you simply have a different opinion or preference (vanilla vs chocolate), arguments won't change anything, it only works if you have a common ground on which you agree.

About the third paragraph. I don't agree or disagree with you. I have no idea whether it's better for everyone to contribute only to their small community or if it's better if everyone did a tiny tiny little thing to help everyone else. Your view has an extremely strong benefit, which is that it's much more practical, because results are easier to see and produce, therefor people will be much more willing to help. Contributing to saving world hunger by donating 100 euro's to a charity feels a lot less satisfying (to most, I think) than helping to clean up the neighbourhood, or improving the educational system of a local school that teaches kids of many people you know is much more satisfying than donating thousands of euro's to improve education in a place of people you don't know personally, but where your efforts will be more effective. But some problems need large amounts of people and money to be solved, like global warming, many of the problems in 3rd world countries, diseases. And for that you need to think globablly and not just in your community. But maybe that is just too impractical, and maybe given the way humans are, your way of doing things really is the best way. I simply don't know. And I definitely admire you for helping a small amount of people around you, which is a lot better than being like me and doing nothing.

"I find it sad and often even disgusting when I witness those who put virtually no effort into trying to make things work for themselves." You can see it in another way. You can think about what made that person be this way and how you could possibly steer her in a more positive direction. I think this approach is more useful for her and also gets rid of negative emotions and replaces it with compassion by connecting to her suffering or dissatisfaction or just your desire for her (or his) life to go slightly better.

**LouaiB** · 08-01-2015 02:07 AM

It's good that you help who's around you @ snoop, but if you wanna think smart and improve humanity's state, pitching in to causes like hunger and fighting war and patriotism, you need to contribute, and it's not thin ice, especially that there are multiple ways to contribute. We are societies, not tribes. You do pay taxes for society, but you can also help the hungry for example with not much effort from your side. You'd be surprised what a bit of charity can do if we all pitch in. If you don't want to, then you're free, but consider your odds that you have not been born hungry. It's a fair dice chance BTW. I'm sure 20$ a month for the hungry can go a long way. It's like a guardian angel send help to the hungry. I like being a guardian angel. It's extremely satisfying knowing I'm keeping someone's, if not more than one, life going instead of him starving to death. You probably pay more for the snack you buy each day coming back from work.

Again you're not evil for not helping the most crucial of cases, but I'm just trying to stir your sympathy, especially being you can help without sacrificing much. I get you help your friends, but it's more of a math thing. The hungry need the money more than your friend needs a KFC meal.

So this is not an argument, I do agree with your logic. It's just me advertising more pressing matters for good ppl who already help others. In the end, helping is valuable.