Thread: Important For United States Citizens

Originally Posted by Universal

However, this ID card thing, at least in the phase we are talking about, is not a big deal. It will be great for making illegal immigrants so helpless that they go home. It will be great for keeping up with suspected terrorists. It will help us track down America's Most Wanted. If it turns into a big deal, we can vote out every politician who refuses to take it away. That is how our system works. It's not like we're communist or something. The people still have the ultimate power. All we have to do is refuse to vote for scum. That will happen whenever something gets too serious. We still have that system.
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I really want to print this out, burry it in the ground, and take it out in 30-40 years and read it.

Who knows? You very well could be right. It might not be that big of a deal. We might still have a system where we the people have the real power. America in 2040 might be a nice, free place to live, and good ole' Thomas Jefferson would be smiling down on the heartland.

Hahaha, no applause necessary! Seriously, though, I'm here all week!

It seems to me we in America are simply a society in decline, rotten on the inside while still outwardly powerful. How did we get that powerful? Well, simple, by being the embodiment of the ideals in the constitution and Bill of Rights. Our source of power is being eroded, those on top are gaining. That's just how it is, and I for one don't like it.

To have security without freedom is an empty existence, one that is pleasant enough to work and be productive but terrible enough to never be happy. In short, security without freedom is a prison.

You say it will help us fight things such as terrorists and illegal immigrants. Well, innocent people are surely going to suffer because of these cards, there is no point in trying to deny that. Are the costs worth the gains? I'm not sure. I would tend to think not.

You say you are horrified that the 4th amendment is all but gone. It IS horrifying. Any rational person would be horrified. But do we really have the power to change this? Are you willing to let more rights be taken away? I hope not.

The problem with saying "Oh, A will help with B, C will help with D, E will help with F" is that pretty soon, Big Brother has his dick in your ass. You're screwed. Where, oh where, do we draw that fine line? To me, National ID cards, which will eventually, with 99.9999% percent certainty, be required for just about everything (as the ultimate form of control and surveillance), are just a weeeee bit over the line.

Panopticon here we come.

"The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - TJ

ya.... you do you realize that there is no difference between this and our social security #s.... we'll still just be carrying around an ID card, and Amish folk will still get a card that says they're Amish.

The Social Security Card doesn't have a Tracking Chip in it. Nor does it have any Biometric technology in it.

And if it's "just an ID card" and the same as those things....why would we need another one?

Look! They've already put out Brian Pepper's I.D Card!



P.S - Yeah, I did that in about 5 minutes. Some info is crap (Taken: In the future OMG&#33

Oh well. You guys are all screwed. I'm glad I live far, far away.

Don't you guys have a driver's liscense for idenitifaction ect instead of these new stuff.

Oh well. You guys are all screwed. I'm glad I live far, far away.[/b]

Dont be sure when USA has raped Iraq of their oil they will come for you.

ROFL! I find this stuff hysterically mad. Are you sure about it? :S Like it's not some really badly interpretted thing?

Also, I find Universal Mind's bigotry rather disgusting. People have many reasons for entering another country illegally, mostly to do with persecution and risk of their lives, so don't just blanket all illegal immigrants under one ignorant blanket, ok?

Originally Posted by Wolffe

ROFL! I find this stuff hysterically mad. Are you sure about it? :S Like it's not some really badly interpretted thing? [/b]

Yup I'm as serious as a heart-attack. Go ahead check it out for yourself Google it to check the validity of it. The Bill passed is called Real Id Signed by all members in congress May 11 2005 you can also reference that link but you may have to search the database for the bill if you can't find it I'll put it up for those who wants to read over it.

ROFL! I find this stuff hysterically mad. Are you sure about it? :S Like it's not some really badly interpretted thing?

Also, I find Universal Mind's bigotry rather disgusting. People have many reasons for entering another country illegally, mostly to do with persecution and risk of their lives, so don't just blanket all illegal immigrants under one ignorant blanket, ok?[/b]

Arnt all americans illegal immegrants. Killing the red indians and claiming the lands as your own doesnt give you the right to the land. Illegal immegrants have as much right in america then americans

Originally Posted by becomingagodo

Arnt all americans illegal immegrants. Killing the red indians and claiming the lands as your own doesnt give you the right to the land. Illegal immegrants have as much right in america then americans
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That's why the Government doesn't use the term Americans anymore. We are called U.S. Citizens.

Wowee, yeah I was just reading about it. I thought you were joking about the radio-wave passports but -

The congressional maneuvering takes place as governments are growing more interested in implanting technology in ID cards to make them smarter and more secure. The U.S. State Department soon will begin issuing passports with radio frequency identification, or RFID, chips embedded in them, and Virginia may become the first state to glue RFID tags into all its driver's licenses. [/b]

Wow, that's insane. The way they piggybacked it on a bill to get it 100% certain to pass is so corrupt too -

After the Real ID Act's sponsors glued it to an Iraq military spending bill, final passage was all but guaranteed. Yet that didn't stop a dedicated cadre of privacy activists from trying to raise the alarm in the last few days.[/b]

I reckon this is a pretty good, though somewhat OTT site for the most unnerving facts about it -UnRealID.com

Don't know if it's been said yet (only read the first two posts of the thread), but in the Netherlands we've had to carry an ID for about a year now as long as you're above 14. If you're 14+ and don't have an ID, the police can fine you.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

ROFL! I find this stuff hysterically mad. Are you sure about it? :S Like it's not some really badly interpretted thing?

Also, I find Universal Mind's bigotry rather disgusting. People have many reasons for entering another country illegally, mostly to do with persecution and risk of their lives, so don't just blanket all illegal immigrants under one ignorant blanket, ok?
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That is such a stupid argument. I am all for legal immigration. I am not a bigot for not believing in having borders where just anybody can come and go and live here as they please. It is a rational view, and if you think it automatically is "bigotry", then you are not a logical person. I have heard so many morons on the news say that if you believe in having immigration laws you hate Mexicans and so forth. That is just retarded. Take a logic class. And I have no sympathy for people who get themselves hurt doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first damn place. We have immigration laws, it makes sense to have them, and it is not my job to avoid saying that just because certain foreigners don't respect OUR laws. Do you really think we shouldn't have immigration laws? Seriously? And anybody who thinks we should is automatically a bigot? Did you used to ride the short bus to school?

Originally Posted by Wolffe

Arnt all americans illegal immegrants. Killing the red indians and claiming the lands as your own doesnt give you the right to the land. Illegal immegrants have as much right in america then americans
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Everybody born here is legal, period.

I think it's a good idea. I've had to have an ID since I was ten (being a military dependant and all), and I've never had a problem with it.

Most people against all of these security measures don't realize how much of a threat terrorists are. I suggest reading Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America by Yossef Bodansky. He outlines reasons why Islamic radicals hate the U.S., and why we need to take them seriously.

The U.S. is becoming lax on the terrorists because of internal strife and disunity. This would help identify terrorists from you.

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd much rather have Big Brother watching over me than an AK-47 pointed at my family and friends.

Legal immigrants are fine, but illegal? Why do you think we call them ILLEGAL?
Duh.

Originally Posted by ;361757

"It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen."
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The eternal war has begun.

Originally Posted by ;361757

The U.S. is becoming lax on the terrorists because of internal strife and disunity. This would help identify terrorists from you.

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd much rather have Big Brother watching over me than an AK-47 pointed at my family and friends.
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Originally Posted by Sagea

I think it's a good idea. I've had to have an ID since I was ten (being a military dependant and all), and I've never had a problem with it.

Most people against all of these security measures don't realize how much of a threat terrorists are. I suggest reading Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America by Yossef Bodansky. He outlines reasons why Islamic radicals hate the U.S., and why we need to take them seriously.

The U.S. is becoming lax on the terrorists because of internal strife and disunity. This would help identify terrorists from you.

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd much rather have Big Brother watching over me than an AK-47 pointed at my family and friends.

Legal immigrants are fine, but illegal? Why do you think we call them ILLEGAL?
Duh.
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You are aware that three 911 hijackers had a "VALID" driver license right? So the real question here is, were they terrorist when they went to the DMV and received their drivers license or not? I'm going take a stab in the dark on this one and assume that they were. So "WHAT THE HELL WERE THEY DOING WITH A LICENSE?" And you also realize that they entered this country by way of student visa's right? So how is it possible that a National ID card is going to prevent anything? Besides if you let Big Brother watch over you then you might as well Pull the Trigger your damn self because Big Brother also knew about 911 before it happened. I tell you it really disgust me how Naive people in this country are.

I think we should look back over the past 20 years and count up how many terrorists attacks could have been stopped in the US had there been a national ID in use. I am willing to bet its a pretty small number. Infact I wouldn't be totally surprised if the number was zero.

I'm going to try and stop posting in this thread, because I'm pretty sure it will just disintigrate into "security! terrorists! fear! help! protect us!" and "no! propaganda! Big Brother! rights! freedom! NWO!"

That being said:

Originally Posted by Sagea

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd much rather have Big Brother watching over me than an AK-47 pointed at my family and friends.
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I would choose the AK-47 pointed at me, my family and friends. At least then, I feel like I might be able to take action.

Give your rights away, and you have no action. You have only whatever they tell you.

Originally Posted by Alric

I think we should look back over the past 20 years and count up how many terrorists attacks could have been stopped in the US had there been a national ID in use. I am willing to bet its a pretty small number. Infact I wouldn't be totally surprised if the number was zero.
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How many terrorist attacks have we had in the U.S. in the past 20 years? And 20 years ago, nuclear terrorism was not a threat in the U.S.

If all said about the ID card so far is true, then the government can investigate suspected terrorists more easily by keeping up with where they are and where they have been. Also, any that are illegal immigrants will have a very hard time surviving here while they have their meetings and prepare things. The card will create a great deal of trouble for terrorist cells in those ways. It's not a cure all, but it's significantly helpful. On top of that, illegals that are criminals (redundant) and illegals who are taking government resources will have to go bye bye.

But if the government abuses this thing, I will join you in getting the sons of bitches voted out of office.

Originally Posted by Universal

That is such a stupid argument. I am all for legal immigration. I am not a bigot for not believing in having borders where just anybody can come and go and live here as they please. It is a rational view, and if you think it automatically is "bigotry", then you are not a logical person. I have heard so many morons on the news say that if you believe in having immigration laws you hate Mexicans and so forth. That is just retarded. Take a logic class. And I have no sympathy for people who get themselves hurt doing something they shouldn't be doing in the first damn place. We have immigration laws, it makes sense to have them, and it is not my job to avoid saying that just because certain foreigners don't respect OUR laws. Do you really think we shouldn't have immigration laws? Seriously? And anybody who thinks we should is automatically a bigot? Did you used to ride the short bus to school?
Everybody born here is legal, period.
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You're a bigot for hating a group of people. That is the definition of a bigot. Like I said, they have many reasons for coming into the US illegally; a lot of these reasons are that their countries won't allow them to leave by legal methods. It also sounds like by 'illegal immigrants', what you actually mean is 'mexicans', which is racist aswell -_-

I think it's a good idea. I've had to have an ID since I was ten (being a military dependant and all), and I've never had a problem with it.

Most people against all of these security measures don't realize how much of a threat terrorists are. I suggest reading Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America by Yossef Bodansky. He outlines reasons why Islamic radicals hate the U.S., and why we need to take them seriously.

The U.S. is becoming lax on the terrorists because of internal strife and disunity. This would help identify terrorists from you.

I don't know 'bout you, but I'd much rather have Big Brother watching over me than an AK-47 pointed at my family and friends.

Legal immigrants are fine, but illegal? Why do you think we call them ILLEGAL?
Duh.[/b]

I doubt many terrorists are walking around pointing AKs at peoples' friends and families, to be honest, so not much need for that, eh? Like the others have said, all terrorist attacks so far have been by perfectly legal citizens leading normal lives.

Originally Posted by Universal

But if the government abuses this thing, I will join you in getting the sons of bitches voted out of office.
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Haha, if the government abuses it, you'll know it's too late. It's civil war time all over again.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

You're a bigot for hating a group of people. That is the definition of a bigot. Like I said, they have many reasons for coming into the US illegally; a lot of these reasons are that their countries won't allow them to leave by legal methods. It also sounds like by 'illegal immigrants', what you actually mean is 'mexicans', which is racist aswell -_-
I doubt many terrorists are walking around pointing AKs at peoples' friends and families, to be honest, so not much need for that, eh? Like the others have said, all terrorist attacks so far have been by perfectly legal citizens leading normal lives.
Haha, if the government abuses it, you'll know it's too late. It's civil war time all over again.
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Oh, I automatically hate Mexicans? How the Hell do you know I'm not Mexican American myself? A lot of Mexican Americans believe in immigration laws too. Do they hate Mexicans? And once again, I am totally okay with LEGAL immigration. You leaped to a conclusion, which is illogical. I also never said I hate illegal immigrants. I said they have no business setting up camp here and using tax payer resources. I said we need immigration laws, a point that you did NOT counter. Do you think you can? I don't.

I could just as easily say that you hate people who believe in immigration laws. Would that make you a bigot?


By the way, I just thought about the irony of how this thread has so many comments about how terrible and awful and screwed up the United States is, and it is rooted in a discussion about the humongous problem with the crazy and illegal measures people take in mass numbers to move and live here. Hmmm...

Originally Posted by Universal

I just thought about the irony of how this thread has so many comments about how terrible and awful and screwed up the United States is, and it is rooted in a discussion about the humongous problem with the crazy and illegal measures people take in mass numbers to move and live here. Hmmm...
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They're just cutting through on their way to Canada, the land of the free.