Thread: Atheism

Originally Posted by ViSions

except Scientology, that's just rediculous. No offence to all you scientologist's out there, but come on, think about what you're talking about. [/b]

That is great. You claim to be so respectful then bash scientology. For real, what is the difference in scientology and ANY OTHER RELIGION? Sure, it has to do with things like aliens and spaceships, but how is that really different from any religion? Is a magical man who controls everything and created the universe and jesus, who can do magical stuff like walk on water and turn water into wine really more believeable? No, it's not. The only reason you and any one else thinks scientology is so odd and makes fun of it (more than, say, Christianity) is because we were grown up thinking that people believing in a magical man in the sky is perfectly normal. If we were grown up with scientology as the current "christianity" we would all be laughing at Christianity and saying the same thing about that as we say about scientology. "Ha, a man creating the entire unvierse in a week? That is LAUGHABLE."

Originally Posted by ataraxis

That is great. You claim to be so respectful then bash scientology. For real, what is the difference in scientology and ANY OTHER RELIGION? Sure, it has to do with things like aliens and spaceships, but how is that really different from any religion? Is a magical man who controls everything and created the universe and jesus, who can do magical stuff like walk on water and turn water into wine really more believeable? No, it's not. The only reason you and any one else thinks scientology is so odd and makes fun of it (more than, say, Christianity) is because we were grown up thinking that people believing in a magical man in the sky is perfectly normal. If we were grown up with scientology as the current "christianity" we would all be laughing at Christianity and saying the same thing about that as we say about scientology. "Ha, a man creating the entire unvierse in a week? That is LAUGHABLE."
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Well you're right actually. I guess dissing scientology is kind of dumb if I'm going to leave any other religion alone. Thanks for pointing out my errors. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. You're totally right.

Originally Posted by ataraxis

You should be. You have used logic and resisted the brain-washing that the majority of the human race has succumbed to.

It's strange; my family was not religious when I was young, and I remember asking my parents about god and getting basically an agnostic answer. But I never had the least doubt--it was always so obvious to me that the idea of god was so absolutely ridiculous as to be laughable. Could it be because I was never told that there was a Santa Claus, either? I don't know what makes some people realize the truth while others succumb to myth. I don't think I am especially smart, and I know there are a lot of smart people who believe in god. And I know people (well really, just one person) who were atheist/agnostic and decide one day, well I think I'll believe in god now, just because life sucks and has no purpose. It's just so weird.
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Didn't think I'd get that kind of responce from someone lol... And yeah, I never had any doubt that there was no god either. I was told that there was a Santa Claus and Toothfairy etc... But came to reason that that was bullshit at a young age, grade 2. I was the first in my grade to realize this, I found it hard not to tell everyone lol... But I decided against it. I can't see myself ever believing in god when I get down.

P.S. Thanks for the compliment at the start of your post Moonbeam. 'You should be. You used logic"

Originally Posted by ataraxis

Is a magical man who controls everything and created the universe and jesus, who can do magical stuff like walk on water and turn water into wine really more believeable? [/b]

Don't forget, he's one guy, but really he's sort of three guys, and he impregnates 13 year olds. He is eternal but he got lonely 6000 years ago and made some beings to torture. The beings can do anything that they want, as long as they say they're sorry to one of him. He made one person out of dirt, but then made another one out of one the first person's bones (He must have replaced that bone, since everyone has the same number). Everyone who believes in him has a different opinion about what really is going on, but maybe they're all right. He knows the future and he made everything, but we all have free will too. Okay.....yeah, what's wrong with that?

ViSions--you're welcome. And thanks for letting me know that my theory that Santa Claus is the "gateway lie" is wrong. Guess it must be something else.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Don't forget, he's one guy, but really he's sort of three guys, and he impregnates 13 year olds. He is eternal but he got lonely 6000 years ago and made some beings to torture. The beings can do anything that they want, as long as they say they're sorry to one of him. He made one person out of dirt, but then made another one out of one the first person's bones (He must have replaced that bone, since everyone has the same number). Everyone who believes in him has a different opinion about what really is going on, but maybe they're all right. He knows the future and he made everything, but we all have free will too. Okay.....yeah, what's wrong with that?
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Wow, that sounds like something I'd say. Seriously though, I used to be a Babtist when I was younger, but then saw the light as I grew up and realised how rediculous everything in the religion sounded. I searched for a couple of years trying to figure out what religion I was and really couldn't find one that made sense to me. Then I discovered Scientology! No, I'm just kidding, I finially figured out that there was no god and that while I will probably burn in hell, it won't be for not believing in him. Anyway, thats all I have to say.

The reason no one preaches atheism is because there is no real motif behind it - like Christians preaching. They believe they can "save your soul" - and from their point of view, that is a huge thing, bigger than anything else pretty much. Where as preaching atheism is more like "stop living an illusion" and from both sides the real reply can be more like "who really cares, atheists are just pissed at those trying to 'convert' them" - its just a belief. They're only doing what the feel is right (the church doesn't exactly have the power like it once did so I don't think that is the reason of spreading their beliefs like it once possibly may have been hundreds of years ago)

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

I'm afraid that you can't enlighten someone who isn't really interested.
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I keep seeing this stuff from you. In the religion forum, you dodge questions like you are playing dodge ball and then turn around and insult people on a personal level for being atheists. That is all you have done in this thread too. I don't think Jesus would want you to act the way you are acting.

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

American polls suggest that atheists and agnostics far out number religious Jews, and even out number most other particular religious groups.
In our system Jews are politically effective lobbyists. More so the Christians who wield even a greater political power.
Atheist and agnostics are not organized and have little influence. Why:
1. Organizing atheists is often compared to herding cats. Tending to think for themselves and independently seeking their own truth.
2.not as likely to conform to a stereo typical society.

~ "When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity." When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion."
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There are no major atheist or agnostic organizations, but atheists and agnostics do vote in a large percentage of cases. The big problem of lack of representation in politics is that the religious people on the whole greatly outnumber nonreligious people, and religious people usually are so appalled by people who don't believe in God that they would not even dream of voting for a candidate who doesn't. It is a big deal even when a member of a relatively obscure Christian denomination runs for office. Society is not ready to put an atheist or an agnostic in office, so our republic will have religious people in every single office for a long time to come.

Originally Posted by blade5x

The reason no one preaches atheism is because there is no real motif behind it - like Christians preaching. They believe they can "save your soul" - and from their point of view, that is a huge thing, bigger than anything else pretty much. Where as preaching atheism is more like "stop living an illusion" and from both sides the real reply can be more like "who really cares, atheists are just pissed at those trying to 'convert' them" - its just a belief. They're only doing what the feel is right (the church doesn't exactly have the power like it once did so I don't think that is the reason of spreading their beliefs like it once possibly may have been hundreds of years ago)
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actually, atheism is preached at my school. its called the "Atheist Agenda" they set up tables and always quote the christian bible, staple their flyers and posters everywhere. Appearing as anti-christians more so than anything else. It would be the same as christians quoting islam for propoganda. While every school is different, the christian groups at my school have not quoted other 'holy' texts, despite the large community of muslims at my school, or have brought up anti-homosexuality forums. Instead they sit at a table looking for members for their bible clubs, so that they can discuss the bible from different points of views.

The Atheist Agenda at my school didn't seem to last too long becuase its propoganda became more and more of the nature of blatant-christian-hate, not a smart move. No groups advocating hate for another group is allowed at my school. Their propoganda had to be toned down for public viewing.

I have atheist friends - but they aren't anymore anti-christian than christians who dont like church. They found the club hilarious but also pointless, since all it could do was attract people who hated christians to begin with - my friends have better things to do than sit around and listen to people whine and complain all day.

I think I'm agnostic, or atheist or something - does that mean I'm in a minority? That would explain alot!!!
I do feel slightly predjudiced against by my society - perhpas everyone does - for one reason or another?

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Don't forget, he's one guy, but really he's sort of three guys, and he impregnates 13 year olds. He is eternal but he got lonely 6000 years ago and made some beings to torture. The beings can do anything that they want, as long as they say they're sorry to one of him. He made one person out of dirt, but then made another one out of one the first person's bones (He must have replaced that bone, since everyone has the same number). Everyone who believes in him has a different opinion about what really is going on, but maybe they're all right. He knows the future and he made everything, but we all have free will too. Okay.....yeah, what's wrong with that?

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When you put it like that - LOLZ


Umm I've been reading some Rabbinic and Kabbalistic writing about the time. There is a common story that Eve was Adam's third wife!
The first refused to lie under him - because they were equals (both made of dirt). So she escaped and become demonised.
The second Eve was made from his rib - and God assembled her whilst Adam was watching. THe sight of flesh appearing on the bones freaked him out and he didnt want her so God sent her away (where to is unclear).
The third Eve - of snakes and apples fame - God made from Adams other rib whilst Adam slept. God even put clothes, jewels and perfume on her so that she would look her best for Adam!

The weird thing is Eve 1&2 were created immortal, and left the garden pre - fall. So maybe they are still around today?

I keep seeing this stuff from you. In the religion forum, you dodge questions like you are playing dodge ball and then turn around and insult people on a personal level for being atheists. That is all you have done in this thread too. I don't think Jesus would want you to act the way you are acting. icon_wink.gif [/b]

Tell me, when have I ever insulted anyone for being atheists? ... besides when I said you guys seem to have Napoleonic complexes, because of your constant pestering us, just because we are christian. I haven't been dodging questions. I just don't answer those who weren't posed at me specifically. To hard to answer everything. Besides that, I don't see how is my responsibility to explain myself to anyone, much less athiests that I don't even know personally.

I also think it is ridiculous how some people behave like a-holes to people who believes in the Christian God, but from my experience most Atheists are not like that.

There's not really any way to disprove God's existance after all - or prove it, for that matter.

Originally posted by sliwslowslider
I think I'm agnostic, or atheist or something - does that mean I'm in a minority? That would explain alot!!!
I do feel slightly predjudiced against by my society - perhpas everyone does - for one reason or another?

That sounds odd. Where I live the majority of people - and almost all young people - are Atheists or Agnostics.

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

Tell me, when have I ever insulted anyone for being atheists? ... besides when I said you guys seem to have Napoleonic complexes, because of your constant pestering us, just because we are christian. I haven't been dodging questions. I just don't answer those who weren't posed at me specifically. To hard to answer everything. Besides that, I don't see how is my responsibility to explain myself to anyone, much less athiests that I don't even know personally.
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You make the point that you have no reason to make your point much more often than you make relvevant points. Here's one of the many questions you keep dodging: Why do you keep posting in religious threads if you don't want to actually join the discussions? You do nothing but bitch about the conversations. You don't add to them at all. Why do you even show up?

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

Where I live the majority of people - and almost all young people - are Atheists or Agnostics.
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If you want to see a completely different world, come to Mississippi. You can't drive two blocks in a town without seeing a church. It's the land of the Protestants where I am.

Why do you keep posting in religious threads if you don't want to actually join the discussions? You do nothing but bitch about the conversations. You don't add to them at all. Why do you even show up?
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I've answered that three times, if you've skipped my posts three times... I don't feel that you deserve an answer... but, since I don't want to prove your point for you, I'll answer you question.

When people come on a forum with the sole purpose of flaming me and everyone like me, I have to defend myself and my beliefs. I don't understand where you guys get off, saying that we are morons just because we are Christians. Both sides do the exact same things, and neither side can handle it when the other does it back. Just stop whining!

and BTW

You make the point that you have no reason to make your point much more often than you make relvevant points.[/b]

What the crap does that mean?

What a bunch of tl;dr.

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

I've answered that three times, if you've skipped my posts three times... I don't feel that you deserve an answer... but, since I don't want to prove your point for you, I'll answer you question.

When people come on a forum with the sole purpose of flaming me and everyone like me, I have to defend myself and my beliefs. I don't understand where you get off, saying that we are morons just because we are Christians. Both sides do the exact same things, and neither side can handle it when the other does it back. Just stop whining!

and BTW
What the crap does that mean?
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That is the first time you have answered me. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

If that is your answer, then defend your side for once instead of whining that you are being persecuted. Also, I have NEVER in my history of using this forum said that a person is a moron just for being a Christian. You accused me of saying it, so SHOW IT!!! Where did I ever say that? Quoting my substantiated disagreements with Christian teachings will not qualify. Neither will posting my questions you think are too hard to answer. When did I ever say I think all Christians are stupid? Let's watch you not be able to back that up, which is your usual predicament.

What a bunch of tl;dr.[/b]

Don't worry about it, none of it got us anywhere.

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

Don't worry about it, none of it got us anywhere.
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Show me where I ever said a person is a moron for being a Christian. If you want to spread lies about me, you need to at least attempt to back them up.

sorry, I forgot to make a quote of my last statement, it wasn't directed at you. I didn't read your post. I fixed it though.

Originally Posted by metcalfracing

sorry, I forgot to make a quote of my last statement, it wasn't directed at you. I didn't read your post. I fixed it though.
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That's lovely. Now show me where I said that people are morons for being Christians.

Oh fucking hell… I tried posting this three times and each time my computer crashed. I hate PC’s.

Ok, so basically I’m going to try not to get into the whole bickering, but here’s my experience with it all:

I am an atheist, and I am confident in my belief but it has been a long road getting here. Neither of my parents were religious, and they didn’t push religion or atheism – I basically had the room to make up my own mind. As a kid I was generally an atheist, but almost out of default. I went to a conservative country school which was fairly religious and a private Christian school which did a fair bit of religious education. Throughout my life I have flirted with the idea of god, and since I was 17 I made a habit of regularly questioning whether a god exists. I like to question my beliefs.

It wasn’t until I started university last year that I got more direction. I took two philosophy courses: one on argument and critical thinking and the other on mind, knowledge and god. The former explained how to think and to distinguish good arguments from the bad, and the latter examined various arguments for and against god in a very objective and non-biased way. Since then I have done a lot of thinking and I am now very comfortable with my position – I know what I believe, and why. Having said that, I will also continue to question my own beliefs and if somebody presents me with a good argument for a god I will consider it carefully and then change my mind if need be. As it is if someone asks me why I am an atheist I can list the reasons and present, I feel, a fairly compelling argument.

I think that the main thing is that people know how to question their beliefs, and present reasons for having them, whether they are atheist, agnostic or theist. Someone who is atheist because god ‘sucks’ or is ‘uncool’ is just as bad as a Christian who believes in god ‘because the bible said so.’ A belief is only useful if you can justify it and are willing to meet the challenges presented to it.
One gripe I have is with people who are either religious or atheist simply because that’s how they’ve been brought up. If you never question your belief then how much do you actually believe? Believing in something because of pride or stubbornness is comparable to nationalism, which is more or less the belief that one’s country is the greatest, simply because one was born in it. It’s not only pig-headed, it can be dangerous, because that’s how wars start. Let me again emphasise that I mean this to apply to both sides of the debate, and to all religions.

I think that the main point is that people should be taught how to think for themselves, and how to distinguish good beliefs from the bad. They should also be taught to have the courage to admit they’re wrong and be willing to change their minds – there is no valour to be had in stubborn and hateful pride. Already, looking at some of the posts in this thread, it is easy to see how when people get hold of guns they can start wars. Sorry if this has been a bit of a rant, but I guess I get sick of ignorance – and let me again point out that it comes from all sides – and bickering. If you are on top of a skyscraper and believe you can fly, when someone demonstrates gravity to you’d be better off if you are willing to change your mind.

Basically, what I am saying is this: if you believe in something, but are not willing to discuss and consider alternate beliefs, and change your mind if need be, then you are not believing in that thing, but simply kidding yourself. No matter what your belief is.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

In our system Jews are politically effective lobbyists. More so the Christians who wield even a greater political power.[/b]

I'm afraid I don't understand Howetzer, care to elaborate? Honestly I'd like to understand what your saying more clearly.

I think he's simply saying that religious groups generally can become powerful lobbyists, and can therefore focus on issues important to them. Nothing wrong with this, but it can be a problem if a small minority of the population are directing and guiding policies that govern the majority.

christians and athiests both are too offensive. they should just be their own religion and stop being angry at people just because they have different views. especially athiests. christians think that non christians are going to hell, so i could see them trying to be a little offensive to save more humans from eternal damnation, but athiests gain nothing from other people becoming athiest.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("xcrissxcrossx")</div>

but athiests gain nothing from other people becoming athiest.[/b]

Well, being athiest I believe that if other people become athiest for the right reason then they have learnt how to evaluate their own beliefs, which can only be a good thing.

Originally Posted by xcrissxcrossx

christians and athiests both are too offensive. they should just be their own religion and stop being angry at people just because they have different views. especially athiests. christians think that non christians are going to hell, so i could see them trying to be a little offensive to save more humans from eternal damnation, but athiests gain nothing from other people becoming athiest.[/b]

Atheists are not angry at people for having different beliefs. We might seem like it in the Relligion form because we are fierce debaters when we do debate, but most of us don&#39;t give a shit when it comes to people who don&#39;t care to go to an internet forum to debate religion. Most of my debating is a shot in the dark at being convinced that God exists. I strongly invite it. I think religion serves a lot of good purposes. If people want to mind their own business and think they are going to live forever, they have my support. I wish I could believe it myself.