Thread: Lets talk about drugs!

Originally Posted by Lucid Seeker

Listen, i know you may all turn on me now for saying this but lucid dreaming is supposed to be a fun experience that you can explore, if you haven't already noticed, this is a Lucid Dreaming forum and i think that discussing the use of drugs can be a bit irresponsible, i mean sure you could say that taking a particular drug is fine with you but what if a young member comes and reads it, then decides "What the hell, they did it, why can't i?" and this could put them in serious danger.

I think that talking about drugs is bad for this forum, there is no need for it because it is a lucid dreaming forum, not even for induction techniques to induce lucid dreams using them. Its bad because it can encourage those who are younger to do things that are illegal and its putting their life in danger.

Remember, its a Lucid Dreaming forum, not a drugs forum.

I can see a lot of that view, especially the part about illegality (along with my earlier stated view about not wanting this site or lucid dreaming to be associated with something as taboo as drugs), but I have seen evidence that some people who post here see no distinction between the lethal high drugs that are addictive and the nonlethal trip drugs that are not addictive (Though they can cloud judgment and interfere with driving ability and so forth and induce psychotic episodes in people who are already psychotic.). The U.S. government and most governments do not acknowledge the difference either. They are two very completely different things. Aside from the legality issue, alcohol is much more in a category with heroin and cocaine than mushrooms and mescaline are, and there has been a gung-ho alcohol thread at the top of Senseless Banter for ages. But alcohol is not a taboo subject because it is legal for adults and society at large does not really see alcohol as a drug, which I think is extremely insane. I don't think there is much reason for being against discussion about driving a Honda Accord to the store on the basis that Nascar racing is very life-threatening. The term "drugs" is very broad. But again, it is a taboo subject about stuff that is illegal in most cases.

I think these kids are exposed to much more talk about drugs IN SCHOOL than on any board. Not to mention the talk at school is mostly a bunch of stupid kids bragging shit like "I was SO WAISTED that I blah blah" certainly not a intelligent conversation about psychedelics. You can't hide the real world from kids, that's just impossible. Fuck censorship, if that's the way its going to be I'm leaving too.

Oh...I love how they just close the thread questioning the censorship...even better.

They are still allowed to be talked about when relevant to lucid dreaming. I see no problem with this. If you want to talk about drugs for other purposes, there are other cool forums for this. Ask me for these and ill PM the sites to you.

Anyone ever seen Danny Darko? Its a crazy ass movie, I totally recomend it.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Anyone ever seen Danny Darko? Its a crazy ass movie, I totally recomend it.

Donnie Darko? Great movie...very crazy ass

It seems as though people who are into psychedelics are into (or are quickly interested in the idea of) similar things such as lucid dreaming...and vice versa. Not allowing the discussion in this forum is really stupid. How are people supposed to learn about the reality of psychedelics (and other drugs including alcohol) when discussing it is banned? That would be like banning LD and philosophy discussions on a drug forum.

Back to movies...Requiem for a Dream is really good.

Dreaming is psychedelic.
By the way, there is no mention of drugs in the forum rules, so the admins have broken the rules and should be banned OK, a warning will be enough this time XD

Originally Posted by Michael

They are still allowed to be talked about when relevant to lucid dreaming. I see no problem with this. If you want to talk about drugs for other purposes, there are other cool forums for this. Ask me for these and ill PM the sites to you.

But why is it applied to only drugs...its perfectly ok to talk about irrelevant things like pets, dating, hobbies...etc.

I get your point. I shouldnt have said I see no problem with it, thats not true. Drugs are like one of my top favorite subjects if not favorite, so I am disappointed as well. They really have no good reason to stop the talk about drugs, but oh well, they are in charge. It isnt something to leave over, just join other forums as well.

Cuz ppls is uptight dawg.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Cuz ppls is uptight dawg.

haha, well worded.

I think a pop up box with a legal disclaimer on the subject (of any drugs) should work. How hard would this be to make it happen Admins or Mods?

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

a bunch of stupid kids bragging shit like "I was SO WAISTED

Right. Because that's neeeeeeever happened here before

You can't hide the real world from kids, that's just impossible.

Lame defense. Using that logic, we might as well tolerate and discuss child porn, the processes for making meth, bomb-making techniques, burglary strategies... That leaves no room for boundaries. Every site needs its boundaries.

Fuck censorship, if that's the way its going to be I'm leaving too.

Don't cry about it. There already is censorship here. I don't see you fighting for the "right" to post porn here. Obviously, the powers that be decided that it's better to avoid illegal drug talk. Is that really so upsetting to you?

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

But why is it applied to only drugs...its perfectly ok to talk about irrelevant things like pets, dating, hobbies...etc.

There's certain things that aren't allowed by the rules: Account spoofing, ban circumventing, racism, homo-bashing, porn-linking or imaging and illegal drug activity are the most notable. There are plenty of other sites that DO allow such things. There's even plenty that allow all of those things. There's no rule against being a member of more than one website. So quit crying just because one site doesn't allow certain things.

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

That would be like banning LD and philosophy discussions on a drug forum.

No, not at all. It's much easier to accept talk of legal activities on a drug forum, whose very foundation is illegal activities. I hardly see the comparison.


I support the decision. I think it was for the greater good of the DV community.

Very Well put Oneironaught!!

It is easily looked upon as "stupid" from... uh well, stupidity/

I personally find less harmful drugs such as cannabis perfectly and believe it should be legalised. Other drugs such as ice, heroin etc. have so many more side effects and are a serious road to self destruction. I've recently been involved in a DSP (Drug Safety Project) so that I can be a peer educator to other teenagers about drugs, sex, alcohol etc.

I dont see why it should be censored however, considering discussing drugs is a good way to learn about drugs and deter people from doing it in the first place.

Talking about drugs isn't a way to deter anyone from doing them. While posting on a forum you aren't there to slap them if they decide to do something foolish without thinking it through.

As long as there is potential for harm, it's best left out of public discussion.

Originally Posted by ReTcHeDmOnKeY

discussing drugs is a good way to learn about drugs and deter people from doing it in the first place.

I agree with that in most cases. I think very good warnings about opiates and other drugs have been given in this forum, but there is always going to be a good possibility there will be somebody who talks about how cool such drugs are. However, such comments always invite the truth to come out about how incredibly dangerous they are.

I think it is good for people to know all of the major facts about every single drug. When I see people making the point that LSD and mushrooms can kill you, I see it as a sign that they probably don't know a lot of the specific dangers of the drugs that actually can. There is so much more to know about heroin, for example, than the fact that it is very addictive and that it can kill you. There are many very fine specifics of how the addictive process grows and what it ends up involving, for example. There are really bizarre mind game aspects involved that prevent people from understanding exactly what is happening after they cross the line. I think drug education classes should be a requirement for high school graduation. An entire year should be spent on it in school. And maybe then people will lose the bizarre and very dangerous idea that alcohol is somehow an exception. Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs there is, and it transforms personalities more than any other drug. It is one of the most dangerous drugs there is for the user and the people who go near the user. It is scary that so many people don't see it that way. It is mind boggling and dangerous that society understands so little about drugs. I think major drug education would have kept some of my friends from ending up on the deadly paths they ended up on.

OneironauT, can you agree with me that my Topic was not just any sort of drug discussion
? IMO it was a very intellectual, truthfull discussion that was neither gloryfying nor demoralising the use of Psychedelic drugs. Also it was not like I planned to discuss drugs such as Meth, Cocaine and Heroin, but I was glad to see that in my topic some people who did use such mentally damaging & physically harmfull drugs, could be motivated to consciously reconsider their irresponsible, risky drug (ab)use by the advice and words of other drug-users who have found a way to do drugs in a responsible, spiritual, non-harmfull matter.

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Right. Because that's neeeeeeever happened here before


Lame defense. Using that logic, we might as well tolerate and discuss child porn, the processes for making meth, bomb-making techniques, burglary strategies... That leaves no room for boundaries. Every site needs its boundaries.


Don't cry about it. There already is censorship here. I don't see you fighting for the "right" to post porn here. Obviously, the powers that be decided that it's better to avoid illegal drug talk. Is that really so upsetting to you?

There's certain things that aren't allowed by the rules: Account spoofing, ban circumventing, racism, homo-bashing, porn-linking or imaging and illegal drug activity are the most notable. There are plenty of other sites that DO allow such things. There's even plenty that allow all of those things. There's no rule against being a member of more than one website. So quit crying just because one site doesn't allow certain things.


No, not at all. It's much easier to accept talk of legal activities on a drug forum, whose very foundation is illegal activities. I hardly see the comparison.


I support the decision. I think it was for the greater good of the DV community.

I wonder why it is, Oneironaught, that you compare Discussing Child Pornorgraphy, Meth-making instructions, bomb-making instructions and Burglary tips with Discussing Psychedelic drugs. Cuz obviously there are reasonable moral grounds in which you'd want to avoid discussions about Child Pornography, Meth-production, burglary and Bomb-making Instructions; These things HARM people. There is no discussion possible that they don't harm people. Ask Meth-junkies, Burglary victims, sexually abused children and Bombing-victims; They harm people.

It seems you have piled Psychedelic drugs together with all the former mentioned business, and by placing it in that row of harmfull subjects you criminalize it. Which is unrightious.
While if you were to get down to the pure, unbiased truth about Psychedelics, what they are and what they actually do, you will find the opposite to be true: They don't harm people, In fact most people have found that their psychedelic experiences have greatly benefited them spiritually. Rarely someone does psychedelics and becomes permanently mentally disturbed; This too is the result of improper education on the subject: no wonder if drug discussions are banned.

Now about the discussion of illegal activities. Based on who's laws? US laws?
Guns are legal; They are MADE for killing; doing harm, and that's exactly what people buy and use them for. Psychedelics don't do any such harm, but they're illegal. Where's the moral Logics in that? Pleas explain that to me Oneironaught.
Doesn't that mean that the law is hypocritical and that it's moral motivations are most questionable?

Originally Posted by SKA

I wonder why it is, Oneironaught, that you compare Discussing Child Pornorgraphy, Meth-making instructions, bomb-making instructions and Burglary tips with Discussing Psychedelic drugs. Cuz obviously there are reasonable moral grounds in which you'd want to avoid discussions about Child Pornography, Meth-production, burglary and Bomb-making Instructions; These things HARM people. There is no discussion possible that they don't harm people. Ask Meth-junkies, Burglary victims, sexually abused children and Bombing-victims; They harm people.

It seems you have piled Psychedelic drugs together with all the former mentioned business, and by placing it in that row of harmfull subjects you criminalize it. Which is unrightious.
While if you were to get down to the pure, unbiased truth about Psychedelics, what they are and what they actually do, you will find the opposite to be true: They don't harm people, In fact most people have found that their psychedelic experiences have greatly benefited them spiritually. Rarely someone does psychedelics and becomes permanently mentally disturbed; This too is the result of improper education on the subject: no wonder if drug discussions are banned.

Now about the discussion of illegal activities. Based on who's laws? US laws?
Guns are legal; They are MADE for killing; doing harm, and that's exactly what people buy and use them for. Psychedelics don't do any such harm, but they're illegal. Where's the moral Logics in that? Pleas explain that to me Oneironaught.
Doesn't that mean that the law is hypocritical and that it's moral motivations are most questionable?

Drugs do harm people. The reason certain drugs are banned is because they consider them to be (like marijuana, which is kindof sad), gateways to the dangerous drugs out there.

Yes, the law is hypocritical, but he isn't in charge of the government, all you can do is go out and vote.

The gov. works kind of like this in respect to those subjected to it.

Law: Don't wear green or we will kill you.

It is a stupid law...but are you gonna wear green?

If the world could work out in such a way that only those who you would want hearing you speak heard you...then I would be able to pick a side on this subject, but atm that isn't true, thus I can not.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Yes, the law is hypocritical, but he isn't in charge of the government, all you can do is go out and vote.

The gov. works kind of like this in respect to those subjected to it.

Law: Don't wear green or we will kill you.

It is a stupid law...but are you gonna wear green?

I would wear nothing but green . I'd start gathering support and build a green society, for the sake of being free to decide my own destiny; my own life. As long as I'm not harming anyone else with it that should be fine and if they'll kill me for it.. So be it.

Nothing in my Life is more precious to me than my Freedom. I would die trying to protect it.

And Oneironaught,
I'm glad to hear I'm understood. I see that all that has motivated you to side with the decision was peer pressure from higher up. And higher up and higher up; Political influence reaches a long way. But in the meanwhile the long arm of the rediculous "war on drugs" having reached out so far that it's even damaging fundamental freedoms right here has serverely damaged the atmosphere and respectability of this forum.

I must admit that I simply don't feel comfortable around here anymore. Once again it is politics that devides us. Well it's allways the Oldest sayings that hold the most truth. "Divide and Rule" is a Tool of politics that reaches out very far and that is manifesting itself here too; It is what is turning civilised discussions into flaming fights and the once so pleasant atmosphere here into a very hostile, "watch what you say"- atmosphere. It's really too bad, 'cause when I joined this forum well over a year ago that certainly wasn't the case.

But now this whole thing has been mutually understood and there are obviously no hard feelinsg and nothing but respect and understanding between us, no matter how divided we stand on this issue. You, Oneironaut, Ophelia Blue, Seeker, Dodobird, Volcon, DeadDollkitty, Shaft monkey, Sandform, Burns and many other members that don't directly come to mind are in my eyes very respectable members simply because you are kind and understanding. Decent and civilised enough to, no matter how much you may disagree with me, still always be able to keep things civilised and kind.

There's another group of people who are the exact opposite of you; Intolerant, rude, offensive, naïve and unable to discuss civilised and constructive. I'm affraid some of these people have also gotten Mod- and Admin- status'es which is not serving this forum well.
Now you're going to see a change if you haven't seen it allready: A group of people, similairminded to me, feel unwelcome and "shut up" because of their views. Many more besides me are now considering to leave because they hold their Freedom dear and they are now, with me, looking for alternative forums. I was actually planning to make one myself. A simple one where this negative mentality will not hinder discussion.

I'm affraid that with the leaving of all those "Psychedelic people" that DV is gunna loose alot of really intelligent, brightminded people.
Witchhunting ain't over yet I'm affraid.

Originally Posted by SKA

I wonder why it is, Oneironaught, that you compare Discussing Child Pornorgraphy, Meth-making instructions, bomb-making instructions and Burglary tips with Discussing Psychedelic drugs. Cuz obviously there are reasonable moral grounds in which you'd want to avoid discussions about Child Pornography, Meth-production, burglary and Bomb-making Instructions; These things HARM people. There is no discussion possible that they don't harm people. Ask Meth-junkies, Burglary victims, sexually abused children and Bombing-victims; They harm people.

I lumped them together only because of their illegal, potentially-harmful status.

It seems you have piled Psychedelic drugs together with all the former mentioned business, and by placing it in that row of harmfull subjects you criminalize it. Which is unrightious.

Believe me, I understand your position, SKA. I really do. I piled all drugs together, yes. Not because I think they are all the same but, because of their popular stigma and the legal issues surrounding their usage.

Trust me, I've done a number of substances in my life as well. But that doesn't mean that I go around in public talking about it. Unfortunately, it's a very gray area that seems to cross into shade around here too often.

Like I said, I think you are generally one of the more responsible members when it comes to drug talk. However, when considering the overall status and situation, I have to side with the decision made by the staff because I think it's the responsible (in the grand scheme of things) of two hard positions to empathise with.

There is no way to make such a drastic change in policy without some members feeling slighted in the process. But, when the ones most vocally fighting for the continued allowance of drug talk are actually fighting in support of the discussion of illegal activities then choosing a side is made a little bit easier.

While if you were to get down to the pure, unbiased truth about Psychedelics, what they are and what they actually do, you will find the opposite to be true: They don't harm people, In fact most people have found that their psychedelic experiences have greatly benefited them spiritually. Rarely someone does psychedelics and becomes permanently mentally disturbed; This too is the result of improper education on the subject: no wonder if drug discussions are banned.

I really do understand, man.

Now about the discussion of illegal activities. Based on who's laws? US laws?

Yes, US laws.

Pleas explain that to me Oneironaught.

I don't pretend to make excuses for the current laws.

Doesn't that mean that the law is hypocritical and that it's moral motivations are most questionable?

You are absolutely correct; the laws are quite screwed up in many areas regarding both the illegality of certain things and the way enforcement is carried out. And yes, "moral" motivation and politics are a huge part of it. But, we aren't here to demonstrate or petition for changes in federal law, only in Dreamviews rules and guidelines.