Thread: Disclosure Project

Phoenix WTF? The percentage came from a ministry of defense official, a ufo was sighted over british air space which did NOT appear on radar. And i don't understand, do you believe this or not because when i support the idea you pop up with some sort of argument against it!?

Originally Posted by Dreamhope11

If you don't like the thread then get the hell out of it, instead of insulting people who may believe in this sort of thing, i think many things are a load of crap but i don't insult the people who believe it.

Lol. I'm just trying to bring sense to people. Sometimes people need some sort of epiphany to realise stuff.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

You sound stupid saying there is no source and one random person believing it. She is way more realistic than you.

By source, I mean scientifical source, not opinion. Don't talk about my "realism" if you don't know me at all. I'm smart than 3 of you combined.

Harsh words for no reason other than your own inability to be respectful. Another mindless insult towards someone genuine complete.

Inability to be respectful? I have the complete ability. I just don't think this situation deserves it. need to be direct, you see

I don't mind my signature looks ridiculous in your eyes. That is exactly what you deserve.

Lol don't take things like a child. It does not cause me pain lol... it just shows you're stupid (to me at least). Blind faith. -.-

haha so excitedly retarded. The disclosure project is proof that it's not just the internet and people like you act cowardly towards evidence. I don't think you are even old enough to have realistic conclusions about this yet. You should be concentrating on other fundamental stuff like why your obsession with doubt plagues your thinking process to the point where rationality is extinct even before your full brain development.

I'll be as direct as possible:

By evidence, I mean scientific evidence.
You calling me too young to realise something? That is disrespectful and prejudicial. No offense, age is never accurate enough to determine one's wisdom. Look at me: I'm 17, and I'm brighter than you who are 40+!
Weren't you the one talking about "inability to be respectful"? just above? And don't come with the tu quoque argument.

Disclosure Project = Flat Earth Society

Don't call other humans pathetic.

But they are. They choose faith over confirmation. There are exceptions, yes, but they are *rare*. Look at religion. Look at psionics.net. Look at all those people choosing personal good over common good. Look at pollution, corruption, organised crime. Man is the wolf of man.

Look at me: I'm 17, and I'm brighter than you who are 40+!

I beg your pardon I am not.

Well, you're as close-minded as most of them. I'm waiting for the responses to the rest of my post.

Ok here's what I think of your post. What exactly am I closed minded about? I'm so open minded I'm actually responding to you in an ethical way in the faith it might be worth it. Something has to be sensible before it can be incorporated and acknowledged.

By source, I mean scientifical source, not opinion. Don't talk about my "realism" if you don't know me at all. I'm smart than 3 of you combined.

Your grammar isn't smart and you don't know me either. Your realism about the subject is what failed. Scientifical source does not make sense. That is not even a word. Proper thinking involves determining the validity of sources and arranging them appropriately and then making conclusions about them.

Inability to be respectful? I have the complete ability. I just don't think this situation deserves it. need to be direct, you see

She deserved respect but you called her pathetic.

Lol don't take things like a child. It does not cause me pain lol... it just shows you're stupid (to me at least). Blind faith. -.-

It shows you are not capable.

By evidence, I mean scientific evidence.

It's called evidence, scientific is what you need to be. There is plenty of it you just need to be realistic and go about it in the correct way to know it and recognize. It is very easy as there is a great abundance of valid sources that fit together to form a clear understanding that this is real. Simply saying you want evidence is pretty worthless if you don't then explain what you are doing to get the evidence. If you did explain how you are coming to your conclusions we would see that you lack research, sources, and are going about it incorrectly. Your 17 so you haven't got much experience. You may think you are really smart but those in the disclosure project have had careers that require more intelligence than you have demonstrated so far in your life. They are mostly ex-military.

You calling me too young to realise something? That is disrespectful and prejudicial.

I said that your brain is still developing at that age which is true. Face it you haven't got much experience.

Disclosure Project = Flat Earth Society

I don't think so. If you look at their website they are very professional and know what they are doing and why. They have first hand experience in what they are talking about with documents to back it up. Discounting this data is a flat earth society reaction.

But they are. They choose faith over confirmation. There are exceptions, yes, but they are *rare*. Look at religion. Look at psionics.net. Look at all those people choosing personal good over common good. Look at pollution, corruption, organised crime. Man is the wolf of man.

There is many people in the world that are really good natured and sensible. If you were in a car crash tomorrow everyone would be rushing you to hospital and trying to save your life. You should be thankful of that. That is organized good in the world. It's a balanced thing to have a religion incorporated into life that's why it's there. Not everyone abuses religion a lot of people improve their life with good ethics. Not everyone is selfish this is not only unrealistic but entirely pessimistic. If you want to look at pollution and organized crime help fix it rather than just complain and blame others, using it as an excuse to call man pathetic, is pathetic in itself.

Bravo ^ *claps*

Also if the goverment released all this infomation and new technology which solved world problems and they had kept it a secret, then everyone will have no faith in the goverment and never trust them again, and i for one would be angry. We should get 1000's of people to storm area 51, if they kill us it's genocide.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Ok here's what I think of your post. What exactly am I closed minded about? I'm so open minded I'm actually responding to you in an ethical way in the faith it might be worth it. Something has to be sensible before it can be incorporated and acknowledged.

There we go. A reasonable discussion.

Your grammar isn't smart and you don't know me either. Your realism about the subject is what failed. Scientifical source does not make sense. That is not even a word. Proper thinking involves determining the validity of sources and arranging them appropriately and then making conclusions about them.

By "scientifical source" I mean scientifically credible and accurate source. You just used style without substance there.

And please forgive any grammar issue with my writing: different from you, English is not my first nor my second language.

She deserved respect but you called her pathetic.

I call 98% of the population pathetic. You included (well maybe a bit less now tha tyou are being reasonable).

It shows you are not capable.

No, it just shows I dislike your signature.

It's called evidence, scientific is what you need to be. There is plenty of it you just need to be realistic and go about it in the correct way to know it and recognize. It is very easy as there is a great abundance of valid sources that fit together to form a clear understanding that this is real. Simply saying you want evidence is pretty worthless if you don't then explain what you are doing to get the evidence. If you did explain how you are coming to your conclusions we would see that you lack research, sources, and are going about it incorrectly. Your 17 so you haven't got much experience. You may think you are really smart but those in the disclosure project have had careers that require more intelligence than you have demonstrated so far in your life. They are mostly ex-military.

Lol. I'm not the one claiming green beings are visiting us daily. You are. I challenged your beliefs. You're the one responsible for backing them up, with scientifical evidence. As in, evidence that has been gathered from scientifically controled conditions.

You say green beings visit us daily. I say there is no scientifical evidence for it. It's not my duty to prove aliens don't exist, it's your duty to try to prove they do. This falls on the same category as the god argument. You are going like "prove god doesn't exist".

Lol. Ex-military are all conservative bitches. I'm smarter than all doctors I've ever met. You don't know me, you don't know my background, so don't say I'm not experienced.

I said that your brain is still developing at that age which is true. Face it you haven't got much experience.

Saying someone is incapable of learning the truth is a fallacy. I most probably wouldn't be discussing this with you if I were a common 17 yo. And even if I were, that is never a valid argument.

I don't think so. If you look at their website they are very professional and know what they are doing and why. They have first hand experience in what they are talking about with documents to back it up. Discounting this data is a flat earth society reaction.

Lol. All I see is manipulation of facts, tendencious writing and stuff like that. It doesn't matter how slick the appearance is if the content is scientifically irrelevant. You are just having a hard time to admit no scientifical evidence supports you.

There is many people in the world that are really good natured and sensible. If you were in a car crash tomorrow everyone would be rushing you to hospital and trying to save your life. You should be thankful of that. That is organized good in the world. It's a balanced thing to have a religion incorporated into life that's why it's there. Not everyone abuses religion a lot of people improve their life with good ethics. Not everyone is selfish this is not only unrealistic but entirely pessimistic. If you want to look at pollution and organized crime help fix it rather than just complain and blame others, using it as an excuse to call man pathetic, is pathetic in itself.

Religion is stupid. Don't try to equal religion with ethics.

Believe me, behind one person that rushes me to the hospital, are 50 others who completely ignore the situation.

If I ruled the world, I'd solve those problems, but it turns out things like the government, that does rule over the world, is so corrupted they don't care about solving problems, as long as they get as much money as possible. I never blamed others for being pathetic, I just said they are. In any case, what are you doing to fix those problems? *-*

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PS: You said "There is many people", and criticised my grammar. Silly.

I'm sorry but the fact that we're not dead yet does not mean to me to mean they're peaceful. The United States has not invaded Jamaica yet, so it's peaceful? Earth is seriously like the Haiti of the galaxy. Why kill us when they're probably using millions of us in sweat shops and we don't even realize it. Seriously, I bet the next probe that goes to venus is going find like 13.5 million human captives making tentacle warmers and grinding coffee beans.

Kromoh, it seems to me that you're just here to call people who don't rely on mundane, stale, scientific fact to tell them what to think, pathetic and stupid. Your posts show a clear lack of respect for other people and a lack of independant thought. You're not better or smarter than people who are open to ideas of ETs, and UFOlogy is not a religion, nor is it merely blind faith.

Before you enter a thread and start attempting to stamp your authority on a subject read a few books. If you did so you would realise the amount of inconclusive information there is out there on this subject. The world is not as simple as evidence or not evidence. Sure, there's no concrete evidence of UFOs, but there's cause enough for a project such as The Disclosure Project to form and start probing this inconclusive area.

The whole notion of seriously investigating aliens and UFOs really deserves a hell of a lot more creedence than it is given. There are people out there who are genuinely terrified by experience they have had, and regardless of whether they are literal experiences or hallucinations, they need to be investigated. I've read about plenty of cases where people have had petrifying experienced in their childhood or later, and as a result barely go a night without having nightmares. They can have days of nothing but sheer terror because of these vivid memories they have, real or not.

Until people like those behind the Disclosure Project actually attempt to find answers instead of sitting back as they would if you had your way, waiting for these sightings to simply explain themselves or 'abduction' cases to simply dry up, we won't get anywhere. People won't gain the understand they need in order to help them cope with/prevent their lives of fear, and the inexplicable cases of UFO phenomenon will not be resolved. It's not about presenting proof here and now to convert the population, it's about attempting to find answers.

If you're so confident that TDS is a load of crap you should have no problem with it continuing and self-destructing. Unless, of course, you really are here just to rub people's faces in fact that there's no evidence so it can't be true (which is flawed logic), and i find it hard to believe you're here for any other reason given the immature nature of your posts.

Originally Posted by Ardent Lost

If you're so confident that TDS is a load of crap you should have no problem with it continuing and self-destructing. Unless, of course, you really are here just to rub people's faces in fact that there's no evidence so it can't be true (which is flawed logic), and i find it hard to believe you're here for any other reason given the immature nature of your posts.

Null Hypothesis, look it up.

"If something cannot show a desired effect or a lack of evidence is present for whatever claim, it is assumed to be false until evidence is produced to substantiate the claim".

Kromoh is simply being sceptical and employing the Null Hypothesis, which is quite the rational thing to do.

I understand what Kromoh was doing, but that doesn't negate my post in any way.

The point i was trying to make was:

Until people like those behind the Disclosure Project actually attempt to find answers instead of sitting back as they would if you had your way, waiting for these sightings to simply explain themselves or 'abduction' cases to simply dry up, we won't get anywhere. People won't gain the understand they need in order to help them cope with/prevent their lives of fear, and the inexplicable cases of UFO phenomenon will not be resolved. It's not about presenting proof here and now to convert the population, it's about attempting to find answers.

But i've noticed there are a lot of people around here who are incredibly eager to jump on anything and everything that doesn't have physical proof and explain to others that they are silly/pathetic/idiotic/irrational for putting a shred of value in something that isn't entirely scientific, and it kind of pisses me off. You guys would have been among the ones who wanted to string Galileo up. You can't see that for all the value science has, there's so much it doesn't understand, and it doesn't hold all the answers. You don't seem to understand that maybe, just maybe, science in its current form cannot grasp evidence of UFOs if it were present, just as science in Galileo's time could not grasp that the earth was not the centre of the solar system.

And so you may say that when science catches up and is able to interpret proof of that nature, then you will believe, and fair enough. But to act as though you're better than those who are open-minded enough to accept the possibility of (in this instance) extra-terrestrial life shows a complete lack of maturity, respect, and understanding. My objection is not to Kromoh's stance on the subject, but to his attitude towards those who don't share his views. Sounds kind of familiar...

Extraterrestrial life is possible, I don't doubt that. But when you consider the vastness of space, the possibilities of UFOs becomes highly unlikely. If we were getting visited, then SETI should have picked up on something in order to confirm that there was intelligent life in our little corner of the galaxy that would allow for such visitations.

Kromoh was making a case against UFOs and all that, not really on extraterrestrial life, and in his case, it is a valid scepticism. Also, your analogy of Science is faulty, because it wasn't Science that couldn't grasp the idea of heliocentric model of the Solar system presented by Galileo, it was the Church. Today, it is a case of lack of reliable evidence for UFOs, and since the vast majority of this evidence is anecdotal evidence, it cannot be relied upon. It isn't a case of Science being unable to comprehend this, it is more along the lines that we've found nothing to support UFO visitations concretely.

Traversing the vast void of space is by no means an easy feat. You'd have to go through potentially harmful areas of radiation that are normally shielded against by the heliosphere and then the Earth's own magnetosphere. And you'd have to last long enough across the vast distances between even the closest stars. To do this in a decent enough time, you need to accelerate your vessel to extremely fast speeds (nearing C) and that requires HUGE amounts of energy. When you take into account these things, it just unlikely that beings are simply visiting us like it was a walk in the park.

I'll concede that perhaps my anaolgy with Galileo wasn't entirely accurate, but the point i was trying to make was that there were people in those times who took science (or what they considered science) as 'gospel' just as there are those in our times who take science as gospel. Science evolves, and what is considered scientific certainty gets broken down and rebuilt. Somebody brought up the flat earth society. That ancient belief is a good example.

But you've avoided the main point of my post again: Those who do show interest in/open-mindedness towards these ideas do not deserve to be treated like idiots and called pathetic. I'm not trying to make an argument for or against UFOs or ETs and i'm not bothered about your assumptions of what they might be, that's irrelevant to my point. The fact of the matter is, these experiences are genuine phenomena, and effect people's lives in ways you and i couldn't imagine. These ideas of UFOs deserve more than people turning their backs and laughing at them because our modern gospel of science doesn't support them, and the people who show open-mindedness about said ideas are not just simple minded idiots who are inferior to the purely logical minded. In this light TDP has its place.

Dr. Briant T. Clifford (Pentagon) announces on October 5, 1982, that contact between U.S. citizens and extraterrestrials on their vehicles is illegal. Title 14, Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations (adopted July 16, 1969, before the first manned lunar landing) says that anyone guilty of this becomes a wanted criminal to be jailed for one year and fined $5,000. The NASA administrator is empowered to determine WITH OR WITHOUT A HEARING that a person has been "ET-exposed" and impose INDETERMINATE quarantine under armed guard, which cannot be broken even by court order.

Interesting...so they deny the existence of E.T.'s yet have a specific set of rules for Americans to follow in case they meet one. Note the emphasis on specific. To put it in a different perspective...the above is likened unto cavemen writing up a driver's manual (with all the stop lights, road signs, car features etc.) for a car they claim is too advanced and doesn't exist. Why create the manual if the car doesn't exist? Shouldn't the car come before the manual? Going back to above context...shouldn't contact with E.T.'s/EBE's come before the rules? After all why make a set of rules for beings whose existence you continue to deny? Only a moron would buy into that. Men with the highest level of gov. security clearance, naval officers, military officers etc. have all stated that the first documented contact and meet up was...around the mid-1900's.

Originally Posted by Ardent Lost

I'll concede that perhaps my anaolgy with Galileo wasn't entirely accurate, but the point i was trying to make was that there were people in those times who took science (or what they considered science) as 'gospel' just as there are those in our times who take science as gospel. Science evolves, and what is considered scientific certainty gets broken down and rebuilt. Somebody brought up the flat earth society. That ancient belief is a good example.

But you've avoided the main point of my post again: Those who do show interest in/open-mindedness towards these ideas do not deserve to be treated like idiots and called pathetic. I'm not trying to make an argument for or against UFOs or ETs and i'm not bothered about your assumptions of what they might be, that's irrelevant to my point. The fact of the matter is, these experiences are genuine phenomena, and effect people's lives in ways you and i couldn't imagine. These ideas of UFOs deserve more than people turning their backs and laughing at them because our modern gospel of science doesn't support them, and the people who show open-mindedness about said ideas are not just simple minded idiots who are inferior to the purely logical minded. In this light TDP has its place.

Maybe not treat the people like idiots, but still treat the claims with very heavy scepticism. Lot of the claims made are often mistaken for perfectly natural occurrences, etc, and even then, quite a lot of them are fake. Anecdotes are not reliable for discerning any sort of fact, because people, intentionally or not, tend to embellish or forget important details when reciting their accounts. To claim that these are genuine phenomena requires quite a bit of reliable evidence in order to substantiate that, and simply saying it is genuine will not make it any more true than sightings of ghosts.

People like to say they see ghosts all the time or when they visited certain places. Should I take their claims seriously?

For sure, the majority of supposed UFO sightings can be explained away, but there are some that cannot. My post was in reference to these kinds of sightings, and also to stories of encounters with actual beings, which is in a completely different league to ghosts or even UFOs for that matter. These phenomena are genuine phenomena. They may or may not be what they seem, but something is occurring with these people and that cannot be suggested to be in the same league as ghosts. If you do a bit of reading on the subject you'll understand what i mean.

And once again it's not the scepticism i have an issue with, it's the illusion of authority some people seem to believe they hold simply because they adhere to strict logic where others don't.

Originally Posted by blufinger

Lot of the claims made are often mistaken for perfectly natural occurrences, etc, and even then, quite a lot of them are fake. Anecdotes are not reliable for discerning any sort of fact, because people, intentionally or not, tend to embellish or forget important details when reciting their accounts. To claim that these are genuine phenomena requires quite a bit of reliable evidence in order to substantiate that, and simply saying it is genuine will not make it any more true than sightings of ghosts.

Bluefinger now I see your logic. Put your thumb up your butt now there is no evidence it's not your face.

Meanwhile Roswell and many other things.

LOL Ye Goode olde thread starts into a big argumente....

Originally Posted by Ardent Lost

Kromoh, it seems to me that you're just here to call people who don't rely on mundane, stale, scientific fact to tell them what to think, pathetic and stupid. Your posts show a clear lack of respect for other people and a lack of independant thought. You're not better or smarter than people who are open to ideas of ETs, and UFOlogy is not a religion, nor is it merely blind faith.

It *is* blind faith if no scientific evidence backs it up.
Also, science is not an instituition, it is a set of parameters to determine validity of a theory. The Church is mundane. Science is not mundane.

Before you enter a thread and start attempting to stamp your authority on a subject read a few books. If you did so you would realise the amount of inconclusive information there is out there on this subject. The world is not as simple as evidence or not evidence. Sure, there's no concrete evidence of UFOs, but there's cause enough for a project such as The Disclosure Project to form and start probing this inconclusive area.

I'm not gonna waste my time reading books. It's very easy to write about anything you want. I have already had contact with this sort of pseudoscience and I know what to expect in their arguments. Disclosure Project? Disclose it at once and stop making a such deal about it.

The whole notion of seriously investigating aliens and UFOs really deserves a hell of a lot more creedence than it is given. There are people out there who are genuinely terrified by experience they have had, and regardless of whether they are literal experiences or hallucinations, they need to be investigated. I've read about plenty of cases where people have had petrifying experienced in their childhood or later, and as a result barely go a night without having nightmares. They can have days of nothing but sheer terror because of these vivid memories they have, real or not.

Well, you know why ufology is a dangerous area to trust information about? First one: it always relies on people's stories of experiences, and you can never know how much of it, if any at all, is real. Yes, they could have been hallucinations, but much more likely, a story someone made up to appear on the media. Even if it is neither of that and something did happen, the story could be only partially true (as in, adding up stuff that wasn't there). Finally, things like this make money, either by selling books and stuff, or by promoting tourism.

Did you know that the James Randi foundation had to provide many of the applicants for the 1 000 000 dollar prize with psychological treatment (because they were batshit crazy)? People are stupid. Don't rely on people, rely on science.

Until people like those behind the Disclosure Project actually attempt to find answers instead of sitting back as they would if you had your way, waiting for these sightings to simply explain themselves or 'abduction' cases to simply dry up, we won't get anywhere. People won't gain the understand they need in order to help them cope with/prevent their lives of fear, and the inexplicable cases of UFO phenomenon will not be resolved. It's not about presenting proof here and now to convert the population, it's about attempting to find answers.

I consider your argument valid that there hasn't been much research on the area. But, based on the history of that kind of inconclusive stuff, it's always concluded that there simply is *no* scientifical support to things. Of course, that information is usually "forgotten" by the holders of respective beliefs.

If you're so confident that TDS is a load of crap you should have no problem with it continuing and self-destructing. Unless, of course, you really are here just to rub people's faces in fact that there's no evidence so it can't be true (which is flawed logic), and i find it hard to believe you're here for any other reason given the immature nature of your posts.

I'm not confident that TDS is crap. I'm confident that no scientifical evidence support it, even after all this time. Which is, I tell you, a great argument in favour of it not being true. People have been trying to prove god since thousands of years bCE. No success so far - which nearly conclusively means one doesn't exist. The line of thought is analogous to ufology.

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Thanks, bluefinger, for your valid points in my favour. Very good logic, and I really agree with everything you said.

For the sake of being politically correct, I'll say I am *not* a disbeliever of extraterrestrial life. The universe is effin' HUGE and it's very hard to have contact with each single piece, and since life is a natural and evolutionary process, I don't doubt millions of varied lifeforms, some akin to ours, exist out there. But ufology is a big no-no.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Bluefinger now I see your logic. Put your thumb up your butt now there is no evidence it's not your face.

Meanwhile Roswell and many other things.

Lol, weren't you the one saying I was incapable of respecting others?

Furthermore, I'm still waiting for your reply to my post. I'd love to see how you react to many of the point I raised in it.

Originally Posted by kromoh

I'm not gonna waste my time reading books.

Case closed.

Lol, weren't you the one saying I was incapable of respecting others?

In this case it was funny so it was allowed. Only because he is constantly beating a dead horse where the burden is on you with his no evidence stick.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

In this case it was funny so it was allowed. Only because he is constantly beating a dead horse where the burden is on you with his no evidence stick.

Ad Hominems are never valid debate tactics, which is why I didn't even acknowledge you until now.

The biggest problem with disclosure is that the very people who were keeping these things hidden still hold positions of power, and they fear punishment for their actions. To admit that UFOs are real is to admit that they've been lying to the people.