Thread: Voting McCain?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You have never seen me say "we" when it comes to things I am highly against. I always distance myself when it comes to things like stealing land from Inidians, slavery, the Tuskegee experiment, and manifest destiny. I avoid use of that word intentionally to illustrate that not all Americans are responsible for it. I do way "we" when it comes to the good things our country has done because it is stuff I support.

I think this is kind of a strange way to attribute whether or not "we" is a suitable word for such situations, but I understand more where you stand on it.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You are putting way too much into this small part of the big subject. I don't have a problem with Wright for saying "we". I just used that fact to help illustrate that he does blame America on the whole (which is now 300,000 people) and not just in part for 9/11 due to the Japan bombings and other stuff that had nothing to do with 9/11. Do you see my point on that?

I simply don't agree with you on that. Because of the context of his words, I just don't believe he's blaming all of America on the attacks. I'm willing to admit that it's speculation on my part. I do think that you're in suitable enough position to say that, because of what he said, but I just don't believe that that's what he was doing.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No, I have not called you anti-American, I have not hinted that you are anti-American, I have not said anything you could deduce to conclude that I think you are anti-American, and I have never thought of you as anti-American. I was using the word "we" to help help show that Wright hates the United States, not because of use of the word "we" alone. It is his connection between two entirely groups of Americans involved in two very unconnected acts of war and his other comments that form the big picture I am talking about.

I think there is a difference between feeling a karmic connection between past governmental atrocities and the 9/11 victims than blaming the victims or saying that they (the victims) somehow got what they deserved. I believe that the point was more than the U.S. government brought the attacks upon itself and that the karmic connection was the subsequent 'bloody hands' that came as a result of the attacks. Do you see what I mean? If I, as a teenager, went around killing the first born sons of other people and, as an adult, my first born son was killed by another, someone that believed in karma would say that I got what I deserved - the murder of my first born son. It would not be his position that my son was somehow deserving of his fate - only that my actions were the cosmic cause of that fate. That's how karma (and like concepts) works.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Most Americans say "we" when talking about anything involving the government or people in the context of being American. I am an exception. I am talking about a big picture, not just one piece of it. It is what Wright said beyond "we" that has me saying this stuff.

Yeah, I understand this part.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Wright basically said America did this, so America got that completely unconnected (through anything other than some weird superstitious nonsense) punishment. When you think about that and his, "God damn America!" comment, you get a picture of how much that guy likes his country.

We're just still in disagreement on this I guess. I still don't believe it's so much his "hating his country" than it is his hating the people that run it and are representative of his country in a global context. Ultimately, it's much harder for me to give credence to this position, I know, because Wright's words can't easily be defended. I still don't think they were as black and white as they've been interpreted, though.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

God damn the South! God damn the South because we have spoken out against necessary interrogation methods and that is why we saw so many of our people murdered in gang turf wars last year! (I'm just kidding. I don't really hate the South.)

That's not the same. "The South" isn't a term that's usually used by proponents of the South, when addressing some representative governmental entity - at least not nowadays. Whether or not it was, back in the days of the Civil War, I don't know. But, if it was, I would be much more understanding of the idea that someone saying "God Damn the South for [such and such]" may not have meant that they hated the Southern Region (given certain context), so much as it probably meant they hated the that representative government entity.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

P.S.- Thanks for the compliments.

Welcome.