Thread: What combination creates the most discriminated person?

Although the rich white male is in control right now, he is always wrong when it comes to civil liberty debates.

Example. Do you think a white man could take a Harlem barber-shop to court for not being hired because of his color?

Its the same deal with racial slurs. Black comedians say "cracker" all the time. The last time I heard a white comedian say "nigger", it was a media fiasco (Kramer from Sienfeld)

If a black man says "BLACK POWER!!!" with his fist in the air, he is considered courageous. If a white man says "WHITE POWER" with his fist in the air, he is a racist. Whitey is always wrong.

I'd say an interracial atheist lesbian couple attempting to adopt a white baby.

Here in the UK.... Young Gay Arab Muslim Male

Although the rich white male is in control right now, he is always wrong when it comes to civil liberty debates.

Example. Do you think a white man could take a Harlem barber-shop to court for not being hired because of his color?

Its the same deal with racial slurs. Black comedians say "cracker" all the time. The last time I heard a white comedian say "nigger", it was a media fiasco (Kramer from Sienfeld)

If a black man says "BLACK POWER!!!" with his fist in the air, he is considered courageous. If a white man says "WHITE POWER" with his fist in the air, he is a racist. Whitey is always wrong.

Lol if you were white why the hell would you want to work in some black ghetto barbershop?

That Kramer thing....was he not angry and screaming it? I agree black comedians like Chris Rock use nigger alot. but white comedians use the word nigger too. Look up Doug Stanhope.

I don't know about that black power thing being seen as courageous, we don't see that in the UK too much, can you give an example?

George W. Bush. It is not possible to be more hated than that guy. You could blow up the entire eastern hemisphere and half of the western one and still not be more hated than George W. Bush. I have never seen it so politically correct and acceptable to hate a person, aside from Hitler. In second place would be Satan worshipping, child molesting terrorists.

Indians and/or Middle Easterners are probably the most fiercely discriminated against, today, as far as ethnicity goes - in America, at least.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Although the rich white male is in control right now, he is always wrong when it comes to civil liberty debates.

Though I don't necessarily disagree with that...

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Example. Do you think a white man could take a Harlem barber-shop to court for not being hired because of his color?

Yes. I can't speculate on what the outcome would be, but yes. He could.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Its the same deal with racial slurs. Black comedians say "cracker" all the time. The last time I heard a white comedian say "nigger", it was a media fiasco (Kramer from Sienfeld)

If a black man says "BLACK POWER!!!" with his fist in the air, he is considered courageous. If a white man says "WHITE POWER" with his fist in the air, he is a racist. Whitey is always wrong.

There is reasoning behind both of these points. Would you like me to explain them to you?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

There is reasoning behind both of these points. Would you like me to explain them to you?

I don't know oneironaut.
The nigger thing yeah I can see that...but we can't call black people anything! I can't even call you a spook. (I think your black right? Fuck if I remember)

Yet you can call me anything and everything under the sun in reference to white. Its like being black is such a bad thing that referring to a black person by his color at all is horrible! WTF?

What do you think would happen if you said you were a proud black man? Nothing. No one would think anything of it.

If I say I'm a proud white man, I'm suddenly in the klu klux klan.



Need I say more?

Originally Posted by Sandform

I don't know oneironaut.
The nigger thing yeah I can see that...but we can't call black people anything! I can't even call you a spook. (I think your black right? Fuck if I remember)

Yet you can call me anything and everything under the sun in reference to white. Its like being black is such a bad thing that referring to a black person by his color at all is horrible! WTF?

What do you think would happen if you said you were a proud black man? Nothing. No one would think anything of it.

If I say I'm a proud white man, I'm suddenly in the klu klux klan.

Need I say more?

I don't really think the South Park sketch made your point very well. Not that you didn't have one. I just don't think it did.

But, yes, there is definitely a stigma that still lingers, as far as racism is concerned - and rightfully so. If racism was completely erradicated, it would be different. Many people like to ignore that racism still exists, and just want the black community to just "forget about it." We (the nation) aren't at the point to where people can just say anything that want to a black person and not be suspected of being a white supremist. It would be great if it were like that, but it's not. Fundamentally, people have to understand that that is a very real truth to why derogatory words to blacks are still buzzwords.

The difference between the concepts of a white person calling a black person a nigger and a black person calling a white person a cracker is that "nigger" is the equivalent of calling a person a worthless piece of shit. It is a word that carries with it connotations that you come from a line of thinking that promotes the hanging of blacks. That black people are, litterally, less than nothing. You can call someone a cock sucker, motherfucker, pansy, pussy, whatever, but none of those words carry with it the power that the word "nigger" does.

"Cracker", on the other hand, is labelling someone as a supremist - basically comparing them to the type of people that did the whip-cracking. You're calling them egotistical. You're calling them ethnocentric. You're calling them anti-semetic, but the word doesn't even come close to rivalling the word "nigger", in context.

Not every black person would have a problem with you saying you're a proud white man. Of course, there are many who would take the statement with a bit of , and I 'know it's not you're fault that making such a declaration might encite those kinds of of assumptions about you, but that's how it is. Imagine watching your mother go through an extremely abusive relationship.

You stuck with it and watched it for years, and she got the shit beat out of her. Finally, she decided to let that drunkard man go, after he'd nearly killed her. Then, later on down the road, she begins dating a friend of his. You see many parallels between the two men, every single day. Even if the man is not the violent monster that his friend was, you'd be a machine to not be somewhat on guard, for your mother's sake, whenever you see those parallels.

As far as just saying the word "black," it has nothing to do with the word, it's how you say it, and the context in which it's said. Many people use the word in a derogatory tone, even when they don't seem to realize that they are consciously doing it. Again, there is a stigma, sure. Not all of the protest is completely rational, but very little of it is without reason.

/rant (That was really to both sandform and half/dreaming, actually. I know sandform did say he understood the nigger thing, but I just thought I'd clarify, for anyone that didn't.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Many people like to ignore that racism still exists, and just want the black community to just "forget about it."

I think history should be remembered and used as a guide for the future, but I don't think it should be dwelled on and wallowed in constantly. It only keeps racism alive. Anything that divides people up based on race creates us versus them ways of thinking, taking away the true perception that every person is an individual. Situations of actual racism should be called out and handled, but any kind of talk against the entire white race, or any entire race, is illogical and breeds hate. So the history of black oppression should be remembered, and it should be recognized when it happens now, but it should be kept within logical confines.

Also, (I am not saying you did this.) I majorly resent it when I am at all blamed for slavery, Jim Crowe laws, forced segregation, lynching, cross burning, and so forth. I had absolutely zero to do with any of it, I have a severe problem with anybody who was or is responsible for it, and it sounds insane and very disrespectful when I am accused of it just because of my skin color. The oppression of black Americans does not need to be completely forgotten about, but there is a lot of letting go that needs to be done. The American slave owners are all dead, nobody who can read is a member of the KKK any more, and the vast majority of white Americans do not hate people based on skin color these days. Mainly, talk about the history of black oppression needs to be confined to where it applies. I am tired of hearing about slavery and so forth from people who think I somehow had something to do with it because my skin color somehow gives me a team status and I am responsible for the rest of the team. I am not a member of a white team. I just have white skin, which easily turns very dark when I spend time out in the sun. I had nothing to do with any of it, I am very glad the North won the Civil War and ended slavery, and I am very glad that the civil rights movement happened and was a success. Plus, I am part Irish, and there were Irish slaves. I am also part American Indian, and a whole lot of them got screwed really bad. So the idea that I am somehow a slave owner or a segregationist because of my race is absurd and very insulting. That idea is what needs to be forgotten. It was wrong in the first place.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

The difference between the concepts of a white person calling a black person a nigger and a black person calling a white person a cracker is that "nigger" is the equivalent of calling a person a worthless piece of shit. It is a word that carries with it connotations that you come from a line of thinking that promotes the hanging of blacks. That black people are, litterally, less than nothing. You can call someone a cock sucker, motherfucker, pansy, pussy, whatever, but none of those words carry with it the power that the word "nigger" does.

"Cracker", on the other hand, is labelling someone as a supremist - basically comparing them to the type of people that did the whip-cracking. You're calling them egotistical. You're calling them ethnocentric. You're calling them anti-semetic, but the word doesn't even come close to rivalling the word "nigger", in context.

That is a very good point. I never thought about it that way. However, what the two words have in common is that they both have a connotation of, "I hate your entire race." The word "cracker" is just like the word "kike" or "chink" in that way. It is a very racist word.

[Edit: This isn't as long as it looks. Lol.]

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I think history should be remembered and used as a guide for the future, but I don't think it should be dwelled on and wallowed in constantly. It only keeps racism alive.

Agreed, though you definitely have to understand how hard it is to get over something when you're constantly being poked and prodded by its remnants.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Anything that divides people up based on race creates us versus them ways of thinking, taking away the true perception that every person is an individual. Situations of actual racism should be called out and handled, but any kind of talk against the entire white race, or any entire race, is illogical and breeds hate. So the history of black oppression should be remembered, and it should be recognized when it happens now, but it should be kept within logical confines.

Couldn't agree more. It is those logical confines, though, that are somewhat debatable. There is the idea of "white people are all supremists," and there is the idea of "there is a very high probability that a majority of the white people around me have some sort of negative perception of me, because I'm black." Given where this country has come from - and is now - there is a bit of statistical truth behind the latter, and it is this latent uncertainty that makes it easier for blacks to make flawed assumptions. I'm in no way excusing it, simply trying to offer some perspective. Again, though, I agree that misconceptions like these add to the problem more than anything else.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Also, (I am not saying you did this.) I majorly resent it when I am at all blamed for slavery, Jim Crowe laws, forced segregation, lynching, cross burning, and so forth. I had absolutely zero to do with any of it, I have a severe problem with anybody who was or is responsible for it, and it sounds insane and very disrespectful when I am accused of it just because of my skin color. The oppression of black Americans does not need to be completely forgotten about, but there is a lot of letting go that needs to be done. The American slave owners are all dead, nobody who can read is a member of the KKK any more, and the vast majority of white Americans do not hate people based on skin color these days.

That's true, but flat-out "hate" is not the only trigger to racial problems. Aside from the overt hate, there lies a (much more widespread) "misconception" of people of other races. Even if it doesn't necessarily include hate, it breeds alienation - the idea that "he's different from me, in a way that I don't fully understand, so I'm going to keep him at arms' length." Even when something as subtle as this is brought to the forefront, it can create a "WTF" reaction, which brings about the touchy subject of racism, which, in turn, brings about the touchy parent subject of slavery. It's often the case that someone looks at a black person as "paranoid," when they bring up the idea that racism still runs rampant even in high levels of government (maybe you've even rolled your eyes at it, at some time or another), but how are blacks supposed to just "let it go", when we are still hearing stories like this:



Initially, it's easy to say that it's a minority of whites that have these sentiments (which may be true. Honestly I do not know) but, when more and more examples of it that can be seen on case by case basis, it's hard not to at least concede to some perspective of how much of it still remains.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Mainly, talk about the history of black oppression needs to be confined to where it applies.

Again, I'm in no way going to argue with that. I completely agree. But, as with the story above, the subject of oppression can very easily come into the context. If that goes on in high levels of the secret service, are there blacks within the organization that are being kept from high level position, because of their skin color? The answer is not so easy to shrug off as "no way, you're just paranoid" as it would have been, if such a story were never run.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I am tired of hearing about slavery and so forth from people who think I somehow had something to do with it because my skin color somehow gives me a team status and I am responsible for the rest of the team. I am not a member of a white team. I just have white skin, which easily turns very dark when I spend time out in the sun. I had nothing to do with any of it, I am very glad the North won the Civil War and ended slavery, and I am very glad that the civil rights movement happened and was a success. Plus, I am part Irish, and there were Irish slaves. I am also part American Indian, and a whole lot of them got screwed really bad. So the idea that I am somehow a slave owner or a segregationist because of my race is absurd and very insulting. That idea is what needs to be forgotten. It was wrong in the first place.

Definitely. It's that kind of overt "guilt by association" that's really prolonging racial tension. I could even understand if someone had a bit of weariness about someone, without getting the chance to know them, but to completely just have a "WELL YOU'RE A PART OF IT!!" perception is completely retarded.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is a very good point. I never thought about it that way. However, what the two words have in common is that they both have a connotation of, "I hate your entire race." The word "cracker" is just like the word "kike" or "chink" in that way. It is a very racist word.

Yeah, I agree. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was saying that cracker wasn't extremely racist. In many instances, it is. There is, however, more than one usage of the word. Some people use it against all whites, regardless of background. It is, unequivocally and universally, racist. Others only use it when coming into contact wit a white person that presents that sort of "cracker" mentality - someone that seems like they stepped directly out of the slavery days, and have shown their racist colors (which, yes, does still imply a racist choice of wording, but I hope you understand my distinction).

In the latter instance, the word is fitting (IMHO), in the former, it's disgusting and shows a racial ignorance that rivals the mentality of those that use the word "nigger" for all blacks.

[Edit x2:

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

You and I have had this conversation before, and you used this same argument. And yes, its understandable.

Correct. Calling somebody a nigger is like calling them a lesser lifeform; the lowest form of life. So by your definition of the word, a white person could be a nigger? A worthless piece of shit?

You seem to think "cracker" isn't that bad. I must disagree. To me, a cracker is a pompous asswhipe who thinks he is superior because of the color of his skin. It brings up a chapter of our past in which we really did think we were better than the "monkeys" who worked on our farms. To a person such as myself who doesn't think color means shit, its like calling me a racist. So, to sum it up;

Nigger=shitbag
Cracker=racist

They both sound pretty shitty to me, but by your definition, the N word doesn't just pertain to a single race. Cracker does.

To be honest, I really don't care about being called a cracker, and I don't think anyone should get upset about the N word. I kinda just wanted to flip it around on you O.

No no. As I said to UM, I didn't mean to make it sound like I didn't think the word "cracker" was all that bad. I think both the words are ignorant. Though, say I was walking down the street and someone said "hey you fuckin nigger, get over here and pick my cotton!" (figuratively speaking), that person would portray the persona of a "cracker." I wouldn't call them that, because these are words I just don't really use in conversation (except discussions like these), but that would be the case in which I would call someone that, if I chose to use the word.

The word "nigger" to some, can be (and often is) used for both races. The way I explained it was not literal. It wasn't to say that "It's just like calling anyone a piece of shit." I believe it is most commonly reserved for the black race. Though, in some instances, you will hear people call people of other races "niggers," too. Likewise, many sophisticated, educated blacks often refer to thuggish, unruly, antagonistic blacks as "niggaz," as well. In that context, it is definitely not a brotherly label.

I got a little nervous when I saw how long your post was. I was thinking, "Here we go again." But I think I agree with everything you said, so there is no point in addressing it paragraph by paragraph.

I can understand when a black person realistically thinks to himself, "There is a chance this white person is a racist and has a bad opinion of me because I am black." He is right. There is that chance. I just don't think it makes sense to go ahead and conclude a person is a racist without good evidence. We agree on that.

You said you were not sure how much of the racist sentiment remains, so I will tell you how I see it. The KKK mentality is not very common with white Americans any more. Only the stupidest inbreds who think wrestling is real talk about hating a person just for being black. However, the subtle negativity you talked about is pretty widespread, but fortunately it is generally the sort of probationary mentality I was just talking about with the black guy who thinks white people around him might be racist. I don't think it is common any more for the negativity to be unconditional. It is about what ifs. Once everything seems cool with the person, the racial tension generally ends. White people who just automatically have a bad opinion of a person for being black and continue to even after they see that the person is totally okay are on the way out. People who are like that these days pretty much don't admit it. They know how ridiculous and ignorant they will sound. Saying the word "nigger" at a cocktail party full of white people now would be like pissing on the curtains. I see interracial couples all the time now, and they don't have to worry about getting attacked over it any more. When my parents were in school, interracial couples were pretty much guaranteed to be attacked in public.

That is all a pretty recent development. Just twenty years ago, prejudice was much more acceptable. Twenty years before that, it was unacceptable not to be unconditionally prejudiced, at least where I live. Of course I live in the state that is the setting of all of the true story KKK movies, so this region's history is really extreme. But things have changed a great deal and seem to still be getting better. I think the racism is much closer to nonexistent in other parts of the country. I have cousins who live in Seattle, and I don't think the subtle weariness we talked about is very common there. If anybody does have it, they wouldn't dare show the signs of it because racism on any level is all out taboo there. I think it is that way in a lot of other places too.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I don't really think the South Park sketch made your point very well. Not that you didn't have one. I just don't think it did.

But, yes, there is definitely a stigma that still lingers, as far as racism is concerned - and rightfully so. If racism was completely erradicated, it would be different. Many people like to ignore that racism still exists, and just want the black community to just "forget about it." We (the nation) aren't at the point to where people can just say anything that want to a black person and not be suspected of being a white supremist. It would be great if it were like that, but it's not. Fundamentally, people have to understand that that is a very real truth to why derogatory words to blacks are still buzzwords.

The difference between the concepts of a white person calling a black person a nigger and a black person calling a white person a cracker is that "nigger" is the equivalent of calling a person a worthless piece of shit. It is a word that carries with it connotations that you come from a line of thinking that promotes the hanging of blacks. That black people are, litterally, less than nothing. You can call someone a cock sucker, motherfucker, pansy, pussy, whatever, but none of those words carry with it the power that the word "nigger" does.

"Cracker", on the other hand, is labelling someone as a supremist - basically comparing them to the type of people that did the whip-cracking. You're calling them egotistical. You're calling them ethnocentric. You're calling them anti-semetic, but the word doesn't even come close to rivalling the word "nigger", in context.

Not every black person would have a problem with you saying you're a proud white man. Of course, there are many who would take the statement with a bit of , and I 'know it's not you're fault that making such a declaration might encite those kinds of of assumptions about you, but that's how it is. Imagine watching your mother go through an extremely abusive relationship.

You stuck with it and watched it for years, and she got the shit beat out of her. Finally, she decided to let that drunkard man go, after he'd nearly killed her. Then, later on down the road, she begins dating a friend of his. You see many parallels between the two men, every single day. Even if the man is not the violent monster that his friend was, you'd be a machine to not be somewhat on guard, for your mother's sake, whenever you see those parallels.

As far as just saying the word "black," it has nothing to do with the word, it's how you say it, and the context in which it's said. Many people use the word in a derogatory tone, even when they don't seem to realize that they are consciously doing it. Again, there is a stigma, sure. Not all of the protest is completely rational, but very little of it is without reason.

/rant (That was really to both sandform and half/dreaming, actually. I know sandform did say he understood the nigger thing, but I just thought I'd clarify, for anyone that didn't.

You and I have had this conversation before, and you used this same argument. And yes, its understandable.

Correct. Calling somebody a nigger is like calling them a lesser lifeform; the lowest form of life. So by your definition of the word, a white person could be a nigger? A worthless piece of shit?

You seem to think "cracker" isn't that bad. I must disagree. To me, a cracker is a pompous asswhipe who thinks he is superior because of the color of his skin. It brings up a chapter of our past in which we really did think we were better than the "monkeys" who worked on our farms. To a person such as myself who doesn't think color means shit, its like calling me a racist. So, to sum it up;

Nigger=shitbag
Cracker=racist

They both sound pretty shitty to me, but by your definition, the N word doesn't just pertain to a single race. Cracker does.

To be honest, I really don't care about being called a cracker, and I don't think anyone should get upset about the N word. I kinda just wanted to flip it around on you O.

Lesbian Eskimo Midget Left-Handed Ninja Albinos. Lol, it's a song by the Dead Milkmen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9QQuuhUT4

Yeah, maybe a black albino xDDD

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Lol, it's a song by the Dead Milkmen. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k9QQuuhUT4

All right! There is somebody else here who has heard of the Dead Milkmen. That is the funnniest damn comedy band of all time. I quoted their line, "They don't know what the queers are doing to the soil," in my sig for a while. I throw that out pretty much every time people get carried away with conspiracy talk. It is the Flying Spaghetti Monster of conspiracy theory conversations, except not as powerful.