Thread: And it Begins: RFIDs

Did you not see my "then don't get one and shut the fuck up" remark? Those are designed to make border crossing faster. If you don't go back and forth to Canada very often then just don't get one. They wouldn't be worth it to you anyway, they cost 30 dollar extra.

They don't need to track your every move. The majority of the population already acts like sheep. Stop worrying, they don't need to implement a totalitarian state, so they wont. They already have control, and they wont lose it without a revolution, which, unfortunately, doesn't look like its going to happen here any time soon. And even oppressive regimes have been overthrown in history.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

If you have a tag on your ID, the government can effectively track you, because every shopping mall, school, mailbox, etc. can easily be outfitted with a scanner. By combining the pings on all the scanners they can track your movements in near real-time. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to come up with creative ways this can be used to enslave a population.

Also, I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." You would be wise to contemplate these words.

Have any of you fucktards heard of mobile phones?
Your position is being tracked in real-time, right now, as we speak.

Think a little before you decide you have something new to say.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Omg, thats it, I swear thats the solution to government, we spy on them and we track their movements through RFID, then we the people will be in control once again.

Yeah and then you can go out into the wild and manage every aspect of your life that the government previously did for you.
Like money.
Which you trade for:
food
shelter
transport
electricity
security

Basically everything you have in life is provided by the government, and the best "fuck you" to it would be to fuck off into the wild and not be bothered by those control your life so.

Originally Posted by adam has a dream

Have any of you fucktards heard of mobile phones?
Your position is being tracked in real-time, right now, as we speak.

Think a little before you decide you have something new to say.

Even if cell phone companies were so inclined as to keep tabs on people, they are not answerable to the government, and hence it cannot be assumed that the government has those records, if they exist. Also, not being tracked by a cell phone is as easy as turning it off, whereas not being tracked by an RFID in your driver's license would require you to not have ID when you move about.

As far as I'm aware all newly issued German IDs, drivers licenses and passports already have RFIDs with all of them having the facial profile and the latter one having fingerprints saved on them. It's quite obvious that the point of saving facial profiles is computer facial recognition on public CCTV, this is no secret. Surely if there's a good reason, they can get access to any privately owned tape as well.

Now just recently they started issuing personal ID numbers ("tax identification numbers") that are valid from birth until death (Unlike the ID cards, their number changes whenever you get a new one). So now we are already 100% at the point where every newborn gets assigned a permanent number and a permanent record in an electronic government-controlled database.

On top of that of course all telecommunications providers being required to record communication data for 6 months doesn't sit too well with me. This is not yet content, but only IP addresses (not the connections, just which one your PC used) and inbound and outbound email addresses and telephone numbers.
Though for mobile phones they also have to save what is essentially the location of the phone (the connected radio cell) at the time of usage. (which is a standard function as has been pointed out by adam has a dream.) Of course also the internal ID numbers of all devices used.

Now my problem with all of this isn't that I think that right now we are living in a tyrannical police state dictatorship, because we're not. We do have plenty of rights left that previous generations often didn't have. The police don't actually use any of this on the average citizen. Right now they're mostly using this for the real bad guys. The problem is that, should at any point in time any crazy dickhead get to power and think it would be a good idea to tighten up security even more and install some more cameras, more regulations, maybe suppress a bit of dissent, become a little more corrupt, cut off some more free speech, there's nothing you can do, because the state will eventually strive to be all-powerful and all-controlling.
Now I'm not saying that anybody would want to do anything about that anyway... since we got iPhones and HD BluRay porn and MTV and football why should anybody give a shit?

We simply shouldn't gamble the chances of the government becoming more oppressive instead of less. You can't just go ahead and say "Yeah, with some time it would probably be possible to create an oppressive government with full surveillance but who the fuck would want to do that anyway? Aren't politicians in it because they like society so much?" No, you should open a fucking history book and look at what kind of crazy shit people pull off if you give them some power and a good chance. This is no fun and games, this was just LAST century... well, and the century before that as well. It's still essentially happening in some countries right now. Crazy peope getting to power and trying to enslave society is no figment of George Orwell's imagination. This is essentially why he wrote 1984 in the first place.

The problem isn't so much that at this point at time I think the government has a sincere interest in any of my business, because I'm just a regular guy.

The problem is simply that one door opens the next opens the next opens the next. EVEN IF right now politicians only want this stuff to protect us against EVIL EVIL terrorists, eventually it opens up possibilities to be abused. And then I'd rather just not have it, even if the politician thinks it will eventually save my life. I don't care.

Some people need to stop being so serious...

Originally Posted by Cyclic13

Some people need to stop being so serious...

This coming from the guy that thinks the universe is the Matrix...

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Even if cell phone companies were so inclined as to keep tabs on people, they are not answerable to the government, and hence it cannot be assumed that the government has those records, if they exist. Also, not being tracked by a cell phone is as easy as turning it off, whereas not being tracked by an RFID in your driver's license would require you to not have ID when you move about.

im one to edge on the side of caution and do not play into paranoia but the government has full access to mobile and landline phones http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agN7S5Siy1o

(by the EFF and so funny)

They actually have a direct pipeline to AT&T. One of the largest in the world!

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Even if cell phone companies were so inclined as to keep tabs on people, they are not answerable to the government, and hence it cannot be assumed that the government has those records, if they exist. Also, not being tracked by a cell phone is as easy as turning it off, whereas not being tracked by an RFID in your driver's license would require you to not have ID when you move about.

This is stemming from the argument that the government could set up rfid scanners everywhere. It is much more feasible to set up a network of cell-phone trackers as they have a much greater range.
Line your wallet with tin foil and it becomes a faraday cage.
Also, who in their right mind would turn off their phone just to stop themselves being tracked? That would make the phone useless.

Really, who in their right mind would worry about being tracked by either their phone or their ID?

Originally Posted by Serkat

The problem isn't so much that at this point at time I think the government has a sincere interest in any of my business, because I'm just a regular guy.

Bingo!

The government doesn't know who you are, let alone being bothered to track you.

Originally Posted by adam has a dream

Bingo!

The government doesn't know who you are, let alone being bothered to track you.

Yeah, until they declare you an "enemy combatant". But don't worry, I'm sure you have nothing to hide.

Originally Posted by adam has a dream

Line your wallet with tin foil and it becomes a faraday cage.

That's true. If you don't want to get tracked with your RFID (then why did you get one?) then any metal can block them. It's a simple law of physics, inside an enclosed metal object, net charge = 0. That will work with your phone too.

Aren't cell phone sim cards likened unto RFID chips? You can be traced anywhere if you have your cell phone with you.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Yeah, until they declare you an "enemy combatant". But don't worry, I'm sure you have nothing to hide.

In a way this is a valid point. Just recently I heard of another (German) Islam-critical website getting heat from the cops. Now whether I agree with a Christian douche bashing Islam when his religion is just as nonsensical is beyond my point. Essentially he got called by the cops and ordered to take out anything critical of Islam, which he refused to do, citing freedom of speech. Then he got a letter, ordering him to take it off or risk a trial (for risking inciting violence or some shit).

My whole point is that surely the government doesn't care about you if you're a well-behaved citizen, but it does start to care if you're trying to make use of those constitutional rights that they think are mostly there for decoration, but quite nutty when put into effect (like actually having free speech - who the fuck would want that except some freedom-loving third party nutjobs?).

Also, this particular example was kind of bad because he had a domain with standard registration so of course everybody can find out who runs the site, it wasn't a privacy issue, just an issue of the government getting all worked about something minor.

I'm just a bit worried that it is more and more presumed that every citizen is a potential criminal. That's bullshit. Take my fingerprints and facial profile for getting a ID card or passport? I mean, WTF? Already putting up fucking retina scanners at some international airports? That's a bit worrying. They basically assume that everyone could be carrying a giant nuke in their pants. They should be assuming that people are innocent until proven guilty, like it says in the fucking UN human rights charter. Not only when I'm already in a trial, BEFORE that. When there's no evidence beyond reasonable doubt to assume I'm a potential criminal, then there shall be no infringing of my rights. Is that so hard to understand? Apparently so.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Aren't cell phone sim cards likened unto RFID chips? You can be traced anywhere if you have your cell phone with you.

yeah, that's what happened in the latest harold and kumar movie.