Thread: What is child abuse?

I want to keep this out of R/s because it's simply not what I'm looking for. All I want is information.

One thing which has been brought up by a few (Richard Dawkins is famous for this), is the branding of religious indoctrination as child abuse.

I don't think that 'religious indoctrination' in of itself can be branded as such, seeing as it is more or less unavoidable. However, the fear of hell as a tool of dicipline should certainly be classed so.

I am hopeless at finding this stuff on the internet. I can't find out what defines child abuse in the legal system and how it differs from country to country. The UK in particular, because that's where I live.

I want to ask people, where is the LEGAL point at which the line is crossed, if there is a line at all. Is the use of hell a crime if caught, or is it possible that it could be one?

Surely if a survey was done which provided evidence that hell use was more of a threat to a child's mental health than child molestation for example then there would be no choice but to brand it as illegal.

There is a debating society at my school which I hope to bring this up in, but for now it's summer and there's really nowhere else to get my information from. I don't know... does anyone know anything in particular or have any links to some sites?

Thanks.

I agree with the classification. Makes striking sense. I'm afraid I don't have any stuff on the topic either. In any case, do update us if you find anything.

I think you might want to look into the prohibition of slapping a child for educational purposes. Some countries condemn it vehemently, while in others slapping is common sense. The going-to-hell thing comes down to threatening a child, I think, which can do real bad to a child's psyche. Threatening has been known to drive mature humans nuts.

It makes sense if parents carry the threats too far. It could very easily be emotionally damaging. (For example: a kid doesn't clean their room or tells a lie and the parent gives vivid details about what's suppose to happen to people who go to hell and then tell the kid that's where they'll go if they don't obey.)

My dad used to threaten to call Social Services on my brother at every turn. He told him if he couldn't listen then he'll have him thrown into Foster Care and let the State worry about him. My brother was a teen by that time but I still thought such threats were abusive.

But to just teach a kid about hell as part of the family's religious beliefs, I don't think that's abusive. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean other people can't.
It's all about how a parent uses those beliefs.

I think that stripping a person of the ability for rational thought by telling them what they believe from a time when they are too young to question is is child abuse regardelss of if hell is brought into it or not.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

But to just teach a kid about hell as part of the family's religious beliefs, I don't think that's abusive.

Yes. Problem is, that never happens. I don't know about you, but I had christian education, and both my family and teachers threatened me with hell. In western society, religion is very separated from culture. Teaching children a religion is against freedom of religion.

furthermore, the very supposed existence of hell is an implicit threat.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

My dad used to threaten to call Social Services on my brother at every turn. He told him if he couldn't listen then he'll have him thrown into Foster Care and let the State worry about him. My brother was a teen by that time but I still thought such threats were abusive.

My mom used to do that once in a while, but I know she wasn't 100% serious. When my mom gets angry, which happens a lot, she says funny stuff.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

My dad used to threaten to call Social Services on my brother at every turn. He told him if he couldn't listen then he'll have him thrown into Foster Care and let the State worry about him. My brother was a teen by that time but I still thought such threats were abusive.

My brother and I used to fire it right back at my parents with, "we'll call child protective services on you!" I put the number on speed dial.

lol Odd!
Unfortunately, my dad was serious. Both of my parents were abusive, but not maliciously so. They were just ignorant and overwhelmed and simply behaving as their parents had. I hated them when I was a kid, but as I grew up I understand them better (not that I will ever agree with their methods). My dad was heavy-handed with my brother (no broken bones or black eyes or anything) and my mom was emotionally abusive toward me to make up for her little boy being so mistreated by the father who never "saw" that I could do any wrong.

I was never exposed to threats of hell, so the concept is a bit alien to me. Even when I was in mainstream Christianity, I had a hard time believing in hell. By the time I became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I didn't believe in it at all and my kids have never been directly exposed to the teaching either.
But I can imagine that some people take the belief in it way too far.

But to say a parent can't tell their kids what to believe in... well, then there might as well not be a school system and there might as well not even be any parents.
I tell my kids that in the eyes of God, *I* am responsible for their spiritual education. If I fail, then God will hold me accountable. Just like if I failed to send them to school (or properly homeschool them) then the State would hold me accountable for failing to do so.
When they move out on their own though, they get to chose what to do with the education they received both spiritually and secularly. Until then, though, it's my responsibility to at least establish the foundation.

My kids can believe whatever they want, but until they become adults, they still have to listen to me. They have to go to school. They have to go to "church".
They don't agree with me all the time, but using that example they at least understand where I'm coming from.

Personally, I think it is a little unfair for parents to make their children go to church, synagogue or whatever else. Children should be allowed to research and learn on their own about religion and create their own beliefs or if they choose to, they should be allowed to not partake in any religion.

Kids should seek religion out on their own if they choose to, not be forced to go. When they are forced, they often have negative feelings about religion. Religion should be a choice, for adults and kids alike.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

It makes sense if parents carry the threats too far. It could very easily be emotionally damaging. (For example: a kid doesn't clean their room or tells a lie and the parent gives vivid details about what's suppose to happen to people who go to hell and then tell the kid that's where they'll go if they don't obey.)

My dad used to threaten to call Social Services on my brother at every turn. He told him if he couldn't listen then he'll have him thrown into Foster Care and let the State worry about him. My brother was a teen by that time but I still thought such threats were abusive.

But to just teach a kid about hell as part of the family's religious beliefs, I don't think that's abusive. Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean other people can't.
It's all about how a parent uses those beliefs.

Anyone who believes in hell and actually has a kid deserves to be spat at.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Anyone who believes in hell and actually has a kid deserves to be spat at.

Woah there buddy.

That was uncalled for.

It is one reasonable interpretation of the situation though. If you believe in hell and believe that most people are going to go there, then why would you have a child knowing full well that in doing so, you are probably condemning them to hell? It seems very cruel and extremely selfish. Saying that they deserve to be spat at might be a little extreme but they arguably deserve scorn of some form.