Thread: Why not work with the subconscious?

I see a prevalent mindset among a lot of lucid dreamers, and really, a lot of people working to change the way they think for any reason. The mindset I'm seeing, for the most part, is that the subconscious is something that is very creative, very intuitive, but at the same time tends to get in your way. Many induction techniques I see involve what people call "tricking" the subconscious, so that, for example, you stay awake through the falling-asleep process. I see things like FILD and WILD viewed as pitting yourself against your subconscious. I've even seen people say that the lucid dream state itself puts you at odds with your subconscious, as if it doesn't "want" you to be lucid.

I understand that these things are difficult, and I know that many times your subconscious does get in the way, but I don't see why we can't work WITH our subconscious, rather than against it. If we can learn to "speak its language", to more effectively communicate, perhaps even negotiate, with it, would that not be easier that trying to work against it? I don't know how we'd actually go about doing that, but it's food for thought. I know that when I do get a lucid dream, trying to establish such a connection would be on my list of things to do. Anyway, I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the matter.

i don't think i work against my subconscious... it often brings up really interesting things that i had no idea were there. if anything, its deeper elements are there to be explored in dreams.

in terms of induction, i guess you could say i actually reward my subconscious: i have a tendency to dream about water, so i reinforce this and am lucid more as my mind works with this theme.

Originally Posted by Singularity125

If we can learn to "speak its language", to more effectively communicate, perhaps even negotiate, with it, would that not be easier that trying to work against it?

Yes, I agree. The subconscious language is anything that is holistic, like emotions or symbols.

I made a thread about communication with the subconscious in BD.

http://dreamviews.com/community/showthread.php?t=87216

Oh, that thread. It's funny, I'd actually found and read that thread last night. It's all very interesting food for thought, but I wasn't sure what I could add to the discussion. After all, I don't know anything about mandalas or sacred geometry. I liked the concept though, and it was interesting staring at your example mandala.

Hmm... You know, I've been reading up on a lot of varied belief systems lately, and not only are a lot of them backed by scientists, they all seem to share the view that everything is connected. Several of them go on to say that emotions are the universal language between the elements. But I think that's a topic for another thread.

Isn't WILD a sort of hypnosis? Which means precisely working with the subconscious mind.

I believe it is a matter of different words people use to describe this state, due to the lack of our knowledge on psychology.

Originally Posted by Singularity125

I know that when I do get a lucid dream, trying to establish such a connection would be on my list of things to do. Anyway, I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the matter.

When I prolong the lucidity in my dreams, trying to establish such a connection will be on the top of my list of things to do.

The most fundamental practices for lucid dreaming--building dream recall and recognizing dream signs--are all about getting to know your dream life, and hence your subconscious.

The subconscious is like a child. It wants what it wants and if it isn't interested it isn't interested. What I do is get it interested. Like a child. I tell it how fun it will be to lucid dream. I tell it that it can communicate better to me if we lucid dream. I tell it that I will listen to it and hear it. It IS like a child and so you are right, we shouldn't trick it, we shouldn't work against it.
After all, the subconscious is more powerful than the conscious. If the subconscious is not on board then it aint gonna happen. You can consciously promise not to get mad at your boss anymore but if your subconscious is still mad the next day you might throw your shoe at the boss. You are totally right, not only should we work with the subconscious, but we have no other choice.

In my opinion, the reason why the 'subconscious' is so at odds with lucid dreaming is because lucid dreaming is such an intrinsically rational approach to the irrational world of dreaming in which the subconscious is king (or queen). The subconscious is the embodiment of the stereotypically right brained aspects of the mind and therefore it is diametrically opposed to language in general. I don't think lucid dreaming should necessarily be a war against the subconscious, but I've learned that it can't be way to communicate with it either, because it doesn't communicate in any way that is recognizable to the rational conscious mind. What you really should be trying to do is embody it, as it is ultimately part of your mind itself.

Any communication you may percieve is a product of your 'left brain' consciousness trying to rationalize the passive irrational output of your subconscious. The rational stereotypically left brained conscious mind comprehends linear concepts like language and communication. The subconscious just is.

prrrrrreeeeettty sure this is not in the right section tralala

I think it's a good idea working with the subconscious. Problem is...the subconscious has a lot of fears rooted in it, and you have to have a clear mind to get through to the higher version and speak with it. Don't believe me? smoke weed and you will see the fears manifest..you have to bypass the fears to get through to the subconscious.....when you get pass the fears he/she will tell you what you need to do. It will tell you everything you need to hear.....

you'll know when the subconscious is speaking and not the chaotic logical mind ( fear ) speaking. You'll feel it.

We don't always have to follow our subconscious' will. That's why our conscious is there. The two should work together, but they do that by arguing at times too. Conflict is inevitable.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Problem is...the subconscious has a lot of fears rooted in it, and you have to have a clear mind to get through to the higher version and speak with it. Don't believe me? smoke weed and you will see the fears manifest..you have to bypass the fears to get through to the subconscious.....when you get pass the fears he/she will tell you what you need to do. It will tell you everything you need to hear.....

Hardwired, you should try taking 500 mics of LSD or an 1/8 ounce of mushrooms or some DMT! Talk about working with the subconscious, makes pot look like gumdrops.

There is more than fear keeping the subconscious SUB, also ignorance and trance states.

I figure if weed takes you to the subconscious..

all you must do is act your true self while on weed, and constantly think about what you want to manifest.