Thread: The Real Problem With Homosexuality

i think, to actually tackle this argrument we have to first go back to the facts/ opinions of "human nature" I'm pretty sure alot of problems show them selves in different ways in non homosexual relationships aswell. in my opinion i'd say it depends on the person not the sexual orientation.

Dost agree with Marvo

Originally Posted by Marvo

First: Why do you need to know this? Why do you need to know so much about all this? Why can't you just live with it?

I'm glad I read this before the rest of your post, it's saved me some energy.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I'm glad I read this before the rest of your post, it's saved me some energy.

Well I think I can help you Idolfan I'm gay so shoot any question you like I'll answer.

Idolfan, don't you realize that many homosexual and bisexual animals exist in nature?

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Idolfan, don't you realize that many homosexual and bisexual animals exist in nature?

aww that was going to be my next point if this thread took off again

Originally Posted by dreamnoob

aww that was going to be my next point if this thread took off again

I was outraged that nobody had already brought up this obvious point.

We're not just talking about human nature here. We're talking about nature in general. There's sexual diversity all around us, and here we are acting like idiots trying to cap it and label it either good or bad. Stop being so myopic.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Idolfan, don't you realize that many homosexual and bisexual animals exist in nature?

I am sorry for getting so angry again, but are you all retards? So what there are homosexual animals. There is no doubt that there is a physical predetermination of physical attraction, but are the animals you speak of bonded in any emotional way? And if they are, is it because one partner has the brain structure of the opposite sex? And even if they did not, and they were both the same archetype, just for the sake of argument, once again so what? That says nothing at all about human beings because these are animals! They are leagues and leagues away from the complexity of relationships that humans get into.

I think it's amazing how an incredibly clear topic can end up getting interpreted as something completely different. This was never about "Is homosexuality natural?" It is about since homosexuality is not in the mainstream natural order and it is a brain abnormality*, then how can it be expected to function in society as if we had been evolving for that purpose for millions of years? On topics like homosexuality, people seem to go into a stupor and even the liberals become dogmatic. It's the one topic where all of a sudden everyone seems to forget that evolution is a BLIND WATCHMAKER.

*It is abnormal, plus it's in the brain. So you can't really deny that it's a 'brain abnormality' unless you actually want to insult homosexuals. And since it's abnormal, it has not been selected in any way to constitute as a successful system! Bonobos are very close to us and practically all are bisexual, but this is only an experimental way of living. It's all experimental, humanity's own acceptance of homosexuality is experimental. So it pisses me off that people talk about it as if it's something completely doubtless and flawless.


@ mowglycdb : I guess all I can really ask is how do you see the proportions of archetypally masculine or feminine gay people? If you've known enough. Which way would you testify?

It would be interesting to understand how another homosexual's personality and desires worked out, but if we were to just work off them then the thread would be pointless because there is no decent sample.

Eureka!

I was having a bit of new year cheer so I researched nothing, but it's only taken me less than a minute to find this:

The sexually dimorphic nucleus whatever that is located near or on the hypothalamus or something is the part of the brain that deals with physcial sexuality. It is said to be larger in homosexual animals, as well as, presumably, homosexual people. I also saw this in a text book once, I just didn't take it in properly.

(I am not contradicting myself because this is about physical attraction)

So I suppose that if you had either a genetic mutation or a birth abnormality which increased the number of neurones in this area, but did not change the gender characteristics of your brain, you could then be likely to turn out as same-sex attracted, but not have the emotional characteristics of the opposite sex. This is very likely a bit of a stretch though because it doesn't include any environmental aspects.

Okay this didn't really advance anything in a social aspect but at least it shows how these things can probably arise.

can you sum up your point in like, a sentence?

Originally Posted by nerve

can you sum up your point in like, a sentence?

definitely not i already tried --> http://dreamviews.com/community/show...7&postcount=13

oops, I missed that.

okay, I think I have a vague idea of what you're trying to say, Idol. basically you're pointing out that the ideal relationship consists of a dominant/masculine person and a submissive/feminine person (regardless of gender), and that the typical homosexual relationship consists of either two feminine men or (I don't know if you've included lesbians) two masculine women, which is problematic and potentially detrimental...? is that close? and have you proposed a solution somewhere in your jabberwocky that I overlooked?

also:

Ps. Xaqaria, your sig has epiphanied me!

LOL. I was not aware that the word "epiphany" could be used as a verb.

Well if it's not problematic then fine, but then I really just didn't know how human sexuality works.

Anyway, I've just considered something else

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...815538,00.html

This article mentions that gay people usually retain many normal aspects of masculinity that straight women do not. So you might say that in some ways they were 'crosses' between male and female.

I could be very wrong after all. It would be quite bloody confusing.

I haven't read much of this thread neither knows what's hapening with it right now. I only read the couple first posts. But i wanted to comment on this:

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

Brain structure doesn't determine what you like...and if it does..you can consciously "change what you like".

I talked about ways to do this with subliminal messaging/imaging and NLP, but you got mad. Obviously that is too "mystical" for people, so i keep stuff like that in BD or religion/spirituality.

I approve this. It is possible and not so hard to consciously change what you like. I've done it a lot. A couple months ago, I decided I wanted to like every kind of food and so whenever I ate something disgusting, I would smile and tell myself that I loved it and i would simply appreciate the horrible taste until I actually like it.

The first time I ate sushi, I spat it in the garbage. I had been very interested about eating a sushi so its not like someone forced me. I truly hated sushi. I ate another one a couple months after and still hated it and then like I said, I decided I would like everything and when I saw another sushi, I got 8 (I was in a buffet) and ate them all. The first ones, I hated them, but I smiled and told myself I loved them. I appreciated it and then I started actually loving them. So the last ones, I actually liked a lot. I also took more. This proved to my family that it was possible to change your tastes. They hadn't believed me before that. I mean, at first I couldn't even eat one and once I tried, I would eat more than 8. And all that, without forcing myself. I was doing it 'cause I liked it. And sushi is far from being the only thing. I like everything now and that has changed my life. You guys should all try to like everything.

If you can change this, you probably can change your sexual orientation if you consider it as a preference. If you're homosexual and you like it that way, then, stay that way but don't say its 'predetermined' and that its impossible to change. Actually, i've read an article about gay guys unintentionally changing orientation. Their homosexuality had only been caused by the lack of male relashionships. So, becoming friends with more guys could itself help you change what you prefer sexually and make you straight. Again, I don't think you necessarily want that. Just saying, its possible to decide.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

I approve this. It is possible and not so hard to consciously change what you like. I've done it a lot. A couple months ago, I decided I wanted to like every kind of food and so whenever I ate something disgusting, I would smile and tell myself that I loved it and i would simply appreciate the horrible taste until I actually like it.

That means you didn't really dislike the stuff. You just assumed you would and had a bad mental image of it. As it turned out, your taste buds were right for it.

Could you be attracted to men if you tried really hard to be? Could the offensive line for the Oakland Raiders? Could Richard Simmons or that Adam guy from American Idol be attracted to women if they tried really hard to be?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That means you didn't really dislike the stuff. You just assumed you would and had a bad mental image of it. As it turned out, your taste buds were right for it.

Could you be attracted to men if you tried really hard to be? Could the offensive line for the Oakland Raiders? Could Richard Simmons or that Adam guy from American Idol be attracted to women if they tried really hard to be?

Yes, I did dislike the stuff. I wrote a paragraph about hating sushi and how after becomming willing to like everything, I saw sushi and liked it after I did my little ritual

1. Take something you don't like
2. Eat it.
3. Taste it
4. Smile
5. make yourself believe you like it
6. Taste it and appreciate it
7. Keep eating until you like it for real.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that if I tried, i could become homosexual by doing the 7 steps I just wrote but by editing them a bit

1. Find a homosexual guy interested in you
2. Have sex with him
3. Feel it
4. Smile
5. Make yourself believe you like it
6. Feel it and apreciate it
7. Keep fucking until you like it for real

Uh... Well, that's probably VERY gross so I'd suggest to masturbate to a porno of the other sex instead of actually having sex.

But why would a straight guy want to be gay? I can only see disadvantages. Per exemple:
1. Can't have kids that you actually made as a couple
2. The only way of penetration is gross
3. Disrespect from others

and the list goes on. I'm sure there's nothing bad with homosexual guys or girls themselves but I don't see why anyone would chose to be if they don't have to. I admit that it probably is hard to change your orientation though because it would feel so wrong and disgusting and stuff. That's why I'm not forcing Homosexuals to become heterosexual even though I think it is doable.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

1. Find a homosexual guy interested in you
2. Have sex with him
3. Feel it
4. Smile
5. Make yourself believe you like it
6. Feel it and apreciate it
7. Keep fucking until you like it for real

You have no idea how much I have tried that with women I was not attracted to. I very much would like to be attracted to practically all women. Do you know how much easier it would be to womanize if I could do that? I have slept with women that I tried all of that with but just absolutely could not become attracted to them. They would come at me, I would go along with it, and I would put out a major effort to enjoy it. Some of them I would try it with for more than an hour straight. It was hopeless. Preference is not a choice.

I still think you only got past an image barrier and not a physical barrier in your situations, which I consider revelations that you were wrong in thinking your taste buds wouldn't like stuff. It was the thoughts of the foods that you didn't like. Once you realized they taste good, you quit thinking they don't taste good.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You have no idea how much I have tried that with women I was not attracted to. I very much would like to be attracted to practically all women. Do you know how much easier it would be to womanize if I could do that? I have slept with women that I tried all of that with but just absolutely could not become attracted to them. They would come at me, I would go along with it, and I would put out a major effort to enjoy it. Some of them I would try it with for more than an hour straight. It was hopeless. Preference is not a choice.

I still think you only got past an image barrier and not a physical barrier in your situations, which I consider revelations that you were wrong in thinking your taste buds wouldn't like stuff. It was the thoughts of the foods that you didn't like. Once you realized they taste good, you quit thinking they don't taste good.

Okay sure. I can't argue with you the possibility of changing your sexual orientation. I haven't ever try and don't plan to. I'm happy with being straight. I thought I could argue this with my experiences completly different themes but I figured I was wrong. YOu win on that one

However, the food thing, I'm right on that. Or maybe you're saying that I naturally like every food that I have tasted yet and one of my favorite things to do is to eat the weirdest and most disgusting looking foods and have access to. Sadly there's not too much but it stays the same. You're saying that there's no food I dislike (naturally). Obviously there are but I do the thing I said before and start liking it. Maybe it doesn't work with sexual orientation, but it works with taste buds. Maybe not with other people but with me it does and I don't think I'm special. I'm just more willing than other people.
By the way, I'll say it again. Lot's of people had told me sushi was delicious so i assumed it would be. My parents hate seafood so they didn't want to taste any. I ignored what they said and got two sushi, one with the green chinese sauce. I took a bite with the excitement of eating a sushi for my first time. I wasn't able to keep it in so I spat it out in the garbage and put the other one with the green sauce in the garbage feeling bad that I had to waste food. I did no where in that expect it to be bad. Then months later, i tried again and still hated it. Then, I became willing to like everything so I ate it and liked it a lot. YOu don't need to believe me, though. I don't know why I'm trying to prove this. Most people don't get it anyways.

Originally Posted by SleepyCookieDough

Okay sure. I can't argue with you the possibility of changing your sexual orientation. I haven't ever try and don't plan to. I'm happy with being straight. I thought I could argue this with my experiences completly different themes but I figured I was wrong. YOu win on that one

However, the food thing, I'm right on that. Or maybe you're saying that I naturally like every food that I have tasted yet and one of my favorite things to do is to eat the weirdest and most disgusting looking foods and have access to. Sadly there's not too much but it stays the same. You're saying that there's no food I dislike (naturally). Obviously there are but I do the thing I said before and start liking it. Maybe it doesn't work with sexual orientation, but it works with taste buds. Maybe not with other people but with me it does and I don't think I'm special. I'm just more willing than other people.
By the way, I'll say it again. Lot's of people had told me sushi was delicious so i assumed it would be. My parents hate seafood so they didn't want to taste any. I ignored what they said and got two sushi, one with the green chinese sauce. I took a bite with the excitement of eating a sushi for my first time. I wasn't able to keep it in so I spat it out in the garbage and put the other one with the green sauce in the garbage feeling bad that I had to waste food. I did no where in that expect it to be bad. Then months later, i tried again and still hated it. Then, I became willing to like everything so I ate it and liked it a lot. YOu don't need to believe me, though. I don't know why I'm trying to prove this. Most people don't get it anyways.

If you're right about tastes in your mouth, that's a shocker because I have wanted for a long time to like the tastes of vodka and tequila, and I have tried and tried, but I think they taste disgusting. I have to mask their tastes with other stuff to drink them. There are really no foods I don't like, so I can't test your theory with food.

As for sexual preference, I wasn't just talking about orientation toward genders. For myself, I was talking about attraction within a gender. I am overwhelmingly attracted to some women, but not always so much the ones that are easily available to me. I am not attracted to men at all, but I have thought for a long time that life would be easier in a lot of ways if I were. Then again, it would be a lot harder in a lot of other ways.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

If you're right about tastes in your mouth, that's a shocker because I have wanted for a long time to like the tastes of vodka and tequila, and I have tried and tried, but I think they taste disgusting. I have to mask their tastes with other stuff to drink them. There are really no foods I don't like, so I can't test your theory with food.

I don't know. I would assume everyone would be able to do it since I can but maybe its not everyone. I don't know. There should be a research on this

It's a good thing that there are really no foods you don't like. You don't even need to try to like them

As for sexual preference, I wasn't just talking about orientation toward genders. For myself, I was talking about attraction within a gender. I am overwhelmingly attracted to some women, but not always so much the ones that are easily available to me. I am not attracted to men at all, but I have thought for a long time that life would be easier in a lot of ways if I were. Then again, it would be a lot harder in a lot of other ways. [/QUOTE]

Oh okay. I get what you're saying now.
Well I don't know. You've comfused me about the human ability to chose what he/she prefers. I know its possible for me with food, but I never tried with anything else so... Maybe its not all that simple as I thought...

This is confusing in many ways. First of all I have witnessed possibly the first ever resolved argument on DreamViews. Secondly, I find the situation much the other way around. It seems in my lifetime that I can't enjoy some foods even if I have to eat them on a regular basis, like spaghetti bolognese. However give me any person on the planet and I will probably find some way to adapt myself to finding them sexually attractive. I can grow into new sexual ideas with much greater ease than I think most people can, which I suppose makes my brain very abnormal. I'm not just talking about fetishes, I mean genuine wanttobewith desire. I haven't tried in practice though, would be a bit problematic but I still reckon I could do it. And far easier than with foods or such.

I'll give you an example of how much I can change. SCD mentions that 'the only way of penetration is gross'. I used to think exactly the same thing only a few years back. But when I started to think about boys a lot more than girls I actually began to like the idea and find it more arousing than the idea of vaginal sex; and if I were suddenly to be straight again I would have no problem with anal sex at all. So the mind must have a good transformative ability, if it can make a dangerous stimulus like bumwhiff actually seem nice.

On the other hand this is probably a bad example because your mind might make you like anything through association of ideas in order to get sex.

Which means, I suppose, that most of us probably have an 'untapped' ability to be homosexual under the correct circumstances. Say if they were put in a room full of only the same sex for like their whole lives. But deliberately causing this change to happen probably isn't going to work unless the person is very flexible.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

This is confusing in many ways. First of all I have witnessed possibly the first ever resolved argument on DreamViews. Secondly, I find the situation much the other way around. It seems in my lifetime that I can't enjoy some foods even if I have to eat them on a regular basis, like spaghetti bolognese. However give me any person on the planet and I will probably find some way to adapt myself to finding them sexually attractive. I can grow into new sexual ideas with much greater ease than I think most people can, which I suppose makes my brain very abnormal. I'm not just talking about fetishes, I mean genuine wanttobewith desire. I haven't tried in practice though, would be a bit problematic but I still reckon I could do it. And far easier than with foods or such.

I'll give you an example of how much I can change. SCD mentions that 'the only way of penetration is gross'. I used to think exactly the same thing only a few years back. But when I started to think about boys a lot more than girls I actually began to like the idea and find it more arousing than the idea of vaginal sex; and if I were suddenly to be straight again I would have no problem with anal sex at all. So the mind must have a good transformative ability, if it can make a dangerous stimulus like bumwhiff actually seem nice.

On the other hand this is probably a bad example because your mind might make you like anything through association of ideas in order to get sex.

Which means, I suppose, that most of us probably have an 'untapped' ability to be homosexual under the correct circumstances. Say if they were put in a room full of only the same sex for like their whole lives. But deliberately causing this change to happen probably isn't going to work unless the person is very flexible.

lol! The first resolved argument on Dreamviews!
Well, maybe everyone has their own thing that they can change their preference of. Me, its food. And you, its sex.

If I was stuck in a room with another guy for the rest of my life, I would probably not become gay even though I am pretty flexible. I'd just become his friend.

I don't think people would start having sex with a person just because there stuck with them for the rest of their lives. If you were stuck with your mother, father, sibbling or other member of your family, would you? no. So why would you with the sex you're not attracted to unless you want to experience something different?

So you are saying its impossible to have a masculine/feminine relationship between two men?

If so, that is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

Originally Posted by CarmineEternity

So you are saying its impossible to have a masculine/feminine relationship between two men?

If so, that is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while.

Well it's a good thing that's not what I am saying then.

I am saying that since the MAJORITY of gay people appear to be effeminite, it ought to be harder to secure a masculine/feminine relationship. This might not even be right. I've already suggested that gay people may have 'half and half' qualities.