Thread: The Real Problem With Homosexuality

@ mowglycdb : I guess all I can really ask is how do you see the proportions of archetypally masculine or feminine gay people? If you've known enough. Which way would you testify?

It doesn't matter if you have known enough, it doesn't matter if they're masculine of feminine, there are a hell lot of straight feminine guys.

Well it's a good thing that's not what I am saying then.

I am saying that since the MAJORITY of gay people appear to be effeminite, it ought to be harder to secure a masculine/feminine relationship. This might not even be right. I've already suggested that gay people may have 'half and half' qualities.

ofcourse they can have half and half qualities, or they can be mostly feminine or mostly masculine because they're as normal as straight people.

let it go already you're loosing your time, but you can learn what loosing your time means.

Originally Posted by mowglycdb

but you can learn what loosing your time means.

Dunno what you're on about.

Anyway. As it turns out, this 'stereotype blown out of proportion' as it has been called is actually accurate because of the article that I presented. Homosexual brains usually resemble those of the opposite sex.

I would prefer it if people stopped trying to derail this. I was just told that homosexual men have as many effeminites as heterosexual men, or if I was not directly, then that was still the point of the message. The whole point of this thread is that homosexual men are in general more effeminite! If I did not have the statistics to back that claim up with I wouldn't bother making this thread or mentioning this at all because there would be no difficulties involved.

...--- oh ok

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Dunno what you're on about.

Anyway. As it turns out, this 'stereotype blown out of proportion' as it has been called is actually accurate because of the article that I presented. Homosexual brains usually resemble those of the opposite sex.

So what of bisexuals, then? Whose brains do they "resemble"? I'm just curious, I'm not trying to "derail" this or anything. But this is Extended Discussion, so you really can't blame me.

I still think this thread is retarded

homosexuality is LEARNED..your not born with a specific "homosexual" brain structure

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I still think this thread is retarded

homosexuality is LEARNED..your not born with a specific "homosexual" brain structure

According to studies, that's what scientists think, actually. That we're born with a specific sexual orientation. I suppose nobody really knows though, which is why I think thread like these are kinda pointless.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I still think this thread is retarded

homosexuality is LEARNED..your not born with a specific "homosexual" brain structure

It's not about differing brain structure. It's about differing hormones. It is hormones that control sexual desire.

First of all. Nothing is learnable if your genes don't allow it. I could take ears of classes for flying but I wouldn't fly if my genes didn't give me wings. If anything, the minimal genetic conclusion necessary to make is that sexuality isn't strict - males [i]can[/] like males and females can like females. If genes influence sexuality more than that is still unknown.

Bisexuals are harder to study but most of the examples I've come across feature (in men) a masculine brain structure with some form of different libido. On the other hand it could be that sexuality develops into a gradient so most adults may be bisexual to some degree.

I want everyone to remember that there will always be exceptions to the rule. Bisexuals appear to be more exceptional than say homosexuals with the brain structure of the opposite sex.

It makes sense that female brains produce female hormones and male brains produce male hormones. Perhaps exceptions to the rule are people with the 'right' brains who just happen to be attracted to the same sex.

Just remember no matter what causes homosexuality directly, the studies show that most homosexuals do have a brain resemblance to the opposite sex.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Bisexuals are harder to study but most of the examples I've come across feature (in men) a masculine brain structure with some form of different libido. On the other hand it could be that sexuality develops into a gradient so most adults may be bisexual to some degree.

I want everyone to remember that there will always be exceptions to the rule. Bisexuals appear to be more exceptional than say homosexuals with the brain structure of the opposite sex.

It makes sense that female brains produce female hormones and male brains produce male hormones. Perhaps exceptions to the rule are people with the 'right' brains who just happen to be attracted to the same sex.

Just remember no matter what causes homosexuality directly, the studies show that most homosexuals do have a brain resemblance to the opposite sex.

Likewise, remember that there are things we still don't understand. It simply isn't as black and white as you want to make it.

*jumps into debate*

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I still think this thread is retarded

homosexuality is LEARNED..your not born with a specific "homosexual" brain structure

Seriously? You think someone would willingly give up their happy straight orientation for the heavy persecution faced by homosexuals now? For what? What benefit could there possibly be? Mate, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a "learned" behavior. There is definitely a factor, be it genetics, hormones, brain structure, etc. beyond the control of the individual that has a significant bearing on the sexual orientations of individuals.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

First of all. Nothing is learnable if your genes don't allow it. I could take ears of classes for flying but I wouldn't fly if my genes didn't give me wings. If anything, the minimal genetic conclusion necessary to make is that sexuality isn't strict - males [i]can[/] like males and females can like females. If genes influence sexuality more than that is still unknown.

Technically, it's called a meme, and these little nuggets of information can override genetic material to an extent. Also, the way a person's brain operates may express/repress the expression of some genes (think of excessive stress, here). But I digress; I agree with you that genetics, or at least early development, shapes a person's sexual orientation. Bottom line: homosexuality is beyond the control of the individual. Now can we please stop persecuting them and move on as a society?

Quietly protesting the 10 character limit.

Well look, I am going to read a lot more choice material into homosexuality. I already have a book called "Queer Science" by Simon LeVay. If I read it insanely quickly then it would provide a lot more information for this so called debate that I started.

I think there are certain genetic factors that predetermine homosexuality but I know it is possible to 'grow into' an attraction you never had before. But this in of itself could be a genetic ability, and some people might not be able to do.

I think another important thing to remember is that it is perfectly possible to have a physical desire for the same sex but you could still have the emotional desire for the archetypal opposite sex. That is what confuses me.

I would bet that physical attraction comes first, and then your emotions develop out of it, but that's just a guess. I had to wait until I found myself attracted to boys to have any emotional desire at all. But that could just have been my age, I really don't know. I'm not a good example.

Originally Posted by Mario92

Seriously? You think someone would willingly give up their happy straight orientation for the heavy persecution faced by homosexuals now? For what? What benefit could there possibly be? Mate, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a "learned" behavior. There is definitely a factor, be it genetics, hormones, brain structure, etc. beyond the control of the individual that has a significant bearing on the sexual orientations of individuals.

There is no factor..it's just what you LIKE and what makes you happy. Porn being one way you turn gay "unintentionally"...for guys I mean. It has nothing to do with your genes..that is seriously the most retarded thing I've heard lol.

You turn gay because of your environment and surroundings and likes and dislikes.

A happy straight person WILL NOT turn bi-sexual or gay if it does not make them happy. Unless it's unintentional. ( refer to the porn thing )

A guy that always gets punked or beat up in school in school starts hanging with females all the time and imitates their behavior and gestures. He feels more comfortable like that. He's happy like that.

Another way is rape or molestation during childhood being another way you turn gay. Because when you were young that made you happy, in an unintentional way.

But you don't enter the world like that. Actually your psyche is what CONTROLS brain structure.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...structure-yes/

Everything starts off SUBJECTIVELY...THEN it's objective.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

There is no factor..it's just what you LIKE and what makes you happy. Porn being one way you turn gay "unintentionally"...for guys I mean. It has nothing to do with your genes..that is seriously the most retarded thing I've heard lol.

You turn gay because of your environment and surroundings and likes and dislikes.

A happy straight person WILL NOT turn bi-sexual or gay if it does not make them happy. Unless it's unintentional. ( refer to the porn thing )

A guy that always gets punked or beat up in school in school starts hanging with females all the time and imitates their behavior and gestures. He feels more comfortable like that. He's happy like that.

Another way is rape or molestation during childhood being another way you turn gay. Because when you were young that made you happy, in an unintentional way.

But you don't enter the world like that. Actually your psyche is what CONTROLS brain structure.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...structure-yes/

Everything starts off SUBJECTIVELY...THEN it's objective.

...you're seriously suggesting that porn will turn a person gay? Now THAT is just plain stupid.

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight...es/011685.html

Yeah...no. What kind of propaganda have you been force-fed? Sure, the environment *may* have a bearing on a person's sexuality, but seriously? Porn will turn you gay? I've heard some dumb things, but that takes the cake.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_gay_...ecome_straight
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_stra...ll_of_a_sudden

If gay people can't become straight (and yes, many efforts have been made, with the vast majority turning out highly undesirable results), then it isn't going to go the other way. Sexual orientation is something that is set at a very early age.

Ok, I meant Porn "CAN" turn you gay...it's a matter of if you constantly climax while looking at another man's penis ejaculating. The image of that is burned into the subconscious. During climax your at a period of heightened awareness and "no-thought" and what you focus on goes right by the conscious mind. This is how subliminal messages/imaging and chaos/sigil/sex magic work...they bypass the logical/conscious mind.

If gay people can't become straight (and yes, many efforts have been made, with the vast majority turning out highly undesirable results)

If gay people can't become straight, then deep down they just don't like the opposite sex. Science can't change what you like and how you feel about things/people.

I don't like Okra...I think it's disgusting...there is no scientific method or experiment that can make me like it. You see? I mean there are things I can do to make myself like Okra, but it would definitely not be called science.

There is no proof, either medically, genetically, culturally or historically that gays, bisexuals and lesbians are born that way and therefore cannot be changed. Sexual orientation is a choice. Straight people have chosen to become homosexuals; homosexuals have chosen to become bisexuals; and quite a number of homosexuals have chosen to become straight. Even some people even decide to cross the species boundary and choose to sleep with dogs and horses.

If homosexuals can claim to be born that way, then we can equally argue that pedophiles are born that way; that polygamists are born that way; that men having sex with their own daughters and sons are born that way. Or that brothers having sex with their sisters are born that way.

We all know that this is not the case. Homosexuals choose to be homosexuals. Lesbians choose to be lesbians. Bisexual people choose to be bisexual. It is understandable that life experiences could have contributed to their choice, the fact still remains that they chose who they sleep with.

Just like a heterosexual. You may say you have no control who you feel attracted to. The real truth is your choice is dictated by your life experiences and cultural upbringing. No heterosexual man was born to be "attracted only to tall, blond women". If he is sufficiently exposed to the likes of Tyra Banks, he might change his mind.
It would be interesting but not impossible. I guess you would have to appeal to certain elements such as comfort, fantasy, sexual desire, and interest.

I simply allowed myself too much freedom to look at my heart's desire.

Could that be considered conscious perversion in some way?

I think that maybe Hard Wired is actually right but it would not work on all individuals.

got a question...if its true porn CAN turn you gay in such a way...how come gays dont become straight from watching women climax?

Originally Posted by tkdyo

got a question...if its true porn CAN turn you gay in such a way...how come gays dont become straight from watching women climax?

Well I get turned on by women climaxing, but I would define my sexuality by the gender I preffered and stuck with to find partners so I could still call myself gay. In the same way many straight men can get turned on by seeing other men becoming aroused.

Obviously if you're gay unless you really want to change yourself, you will stick with what you prefer otherwise you many not be sexually satisfied, if there is such a thing, and it would be frustrating.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I don't know much about gay 'culture'

Everyone is looking for something different, hetero- or homosexual.
Some hetero women look for big, strong men; others prefer more petite fellows.
Some hetero men look for big, chubby women ('chubby chasers', as they are commonly called); others prefer more petite ladies.

You are putting across that men look for lady-like women and women look for manly men. With sexuality blossoming like it is, this is no longer the case. There are so many different preferences, too many to count or put into a category of what's common or uncommon.

The same goes for homosexuals. In gay 'culture', you've got bears (big, hairy men), twinks (small, young men), queens (the typical effeminate, flamboyant men); butch (manly women), lipsticks (feminine women), chapsticks (average women (between manly and feminine - unisex)).
There are many more terms but I'm not the king of gay culture either.

On top of that, with gay couples someone will take on a masculine role (dominant) and the other a feminine role (submissive). People joke and ask, "So who wears the pants in your relationship?"
A bear could be looking for a twink or a queen, a butch could be looking for a chapstick, a twink could be looking for another twink. But all of the gay couples I have met and currently know, whether they are both twinks, or one is a queen and one is a bear, there is a dominant partner and a submissive partner. It just falls into place naturally, especially when sex comes into play.

What I'm trying to say is that not all gay men are feminine and thus cannot have a fulfilling masculine partner and not all gay women are masculine and thus cannot have a fulfilling feminine partner.

I have no idea if this was stated already or where the conversation has gone, but I read the OP and decided to throw in my two cents.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

There is no proof, either medically, genetically, culturally or historically that gays, bisexuals and lesbians are born that way and therefore cannot be changed. Sexual orientation is a choice. Straight people have chosen to become homosexuals; homosexuals have chosen to become bisexuals; and quite a number of homosexuals have chosen to become straight. Even some people even decide to cross the species boundary and choose to sleep with dogs and horses.

If homosexuals can claim to be born that way, then we can equally argue that pedophiles are born that way; that polygamists are born that way; that men having sex with their own daughters and sons are born that way. Or that brothers having sex with their sisters are born that way.

We all know that this is not the case. Homosexuals choose to be homosexuals. Lesbians choose to be lesbians. Bisexual people choose to be bisexual. It is understandable that life experiences could have contributed to their choice, the fact still remains that they chose who they sleep with.

Just like a heterosexual. You may say you have no control who you feel attracted to. The real truth is your choice is dictated by your life experiences and cultural upbringing. No heterosexual man was born to be "attracted only to tall, blond women". If he is sufficiently exposed to the likes of Tyra Banks, he might change his mind.
It would be interesting but not impossible. I guess you would have to appeal to certain elements such as comfort, fantasy, sexual desire, and interest.

Haha, who wrote this? Is it backed up by any kind of research/evidence?

Because it just looks like ramblings from some ignorant fool. Really, comparing polygamy with parent-child incest and even pedophilia? Lmao.

That entire quote is somewhat broken. Yes, we do indeed choose who we sleep with, however, we can not control what we are attracted to. Whether it is something we're born with, or something that happens to use while we grow up doesn't really matter. Once we reach a certain point of maturity, that preference becomes hard wired, so to speak. Sure, you can subliminally get yourself to become turned on by certain images that you would not normal find arousing, but this does not mean you're attracted to the sex, at all.
There's a pretty big difference between "getting turned on by watching a guy having sex with another guy" and actually loving another guy.

And yes, I am of the belief that paedophiles are paedophiles either because of something genetic (born with it) or a preference that is wired into a person very early on in their life.

Everything we like, everything we dislike, it's something that is close to impossible to manipulate. Some people just pick the shorter straw, like paedophiles.

Check it out noobs:

Guy goes straight after 20 years of gaydom.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle6990013.ece

Instinctive need to procreate > sexual fetish.

Check it out noobs:

Guy gets banned after 20 years of trolling.

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/member.php?u=15110

Staff > prejudicial members.

This post is a parody, duh

wow, did you really ban him? lol