Thread: What does spirituality provide that science doesn't?

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The subconscious keeps us breathing and our heart beating.

I believe the involuntary actions like heartbeat etc are actually controlled by the UNconscious, not the subconscious. At least these are the 3 divisions Freud created, conscious, subconscious, and unconscious. I've always been a little hazy on exactly what the difference is between sub- and un-, but Im sure the involuntary actions are part of the unconscious. Though for the purpose of this discussion the distinction might be irrelevant, and it does tend to complicate things slightly.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Own your shadow. Accept that you have bad, dark, evil, parts to yourself

Ah yes, the Jungian Shadow!! This is a large part of the reason for my username (which I've had for a long time, well before joining this forum). I believe as I said in the first post in my DJ, that the Dark Matters... the darkness inside each of us that most people deny exists. Dannon, I feel exactly the way you do on this issue... we each need to try to own the Shadow... accept that we're bad as well as good. You mentioned something about turning on a light... but if you think about it, every time you turn on a light half of your body falls into shadow. Heh... ok, not sure what I mean by that.... because I DO believe it's possible, at least to SOME extent, to own your Shadow and try to own up to your failings and faults. Not all of them though... some we'll always be in denial of, or we might be able to own them briefly (when we really try) and then they slip into unconsciousness (or make that subconsciousness... ) as soon as we remove the spotlight of attention from them to again concentrate on daily stuff.

You guys are spot on about deprivation and the problems it causes... that's exactly why the churches are riddled with sexual abuse of children. It's a shame men of the cloth are expected to live a life of sexual denial. And I think it points a warning finger at what certain religions do to their believers... when you go around feeling like you're holy and sanctified and can do no wrong, your shadow only grows bigger. Stronger light creates a darker shadow (I know, I studies lighting for making my stopmotion films )

Ok,, and this thought actually answers my earlier statement (I'll repeat it here): every time you turn on a light half of your body falls into shadow. Heh... ok, not sure what I mean by that....

... And the answer? In terms of lighting for a miniature stopmotion set... reflectors! It can be as simple as pieces of white posterboard reflecting light into areas of darkness. The same applies metaphorically to the Jungian Shadow... we can cast light into that dark half of ourselves with the reflector of awareness... by thinking about the darkness inside. Being aware of the mechanisms of denial and how they work - beneath the radar of normal conscious awareness.

One of the best things I've gotten from Castaneda is the idea of losing your sense of self importance. When you begin to do that, you can clearly see how almost everyone around you spends most of their time comparing their self-importance and having pissing contests to see whose self-importance is more bloated. When you stop feeling self-important, people will laugh a lot because they just think they win the contest now, but you don't care... it's a pointless contest... who cares if they win it? I think this is a huge step toward owning your Shadow. It's because of that self-importance and the need to demonstrate that yours is bigger that leads to many harmful acts toward others. Little indiscretions that over time add up.

Stop doing it!

Be humble and unassuming.

It's a lot less important to win the argument than to plant the seed of a good idea in the other person's mind by letting them win. It's a little trick I use a lot... like on those courtroom shows where a lawyer keeps bringing up stuff that he knows will get thrown out of the official record but it still influences the jury's decisions... it doesn't matter if you WIN... as long as the idea gets across. And often after "losing" these fights, a week or two later Ill hear the "winner" going around stating the idea I implanted as if he thought of it, even after he fought against it tooth and nail for the big win!!

Wow, was that completely irrelevant? Sorry... Im rambling here...