Shit hits the fan in Korea

[Spartiate]

Don't know how many of you have been following the situation there, but things are getting tense. So a synopsis of events so far: In late March, a South Korean corvette sank somewhat mysteriously, killing 46. North Korea (who has been in a cold war with the south for over 50 years) denies any involvement. In late May, an international investigation finds the cause of the sinking to be a North Korean torpedo fired by a submarine. North Korea still denies it was responsible. Since then, the North and the South have severed all economic and political ties (effectively nullifying all the cooperation accomplished in the last decade). Both sides have readied their military for war, the South is currently conducting psychological warfare and training exercises in the area where their ship was attacked. Now the really bad part of all of this is that the South is allied with the US and Japan whereas the North is aligned with China. If a conflict were to break out there is a strong chance that all those countries (and possibly more) would participate. Be advised, North Korea is NOT some pushover that the West can steamroll like Iraq or Afghanistan. They aren't exactly well equipped but their army is well over one million strong, and if China decides to join on their side, it's anybody's game. The last Korean War ended with around 5 million casualties on all sides. With many Western countries tied up in the Middle-East, this could be really bad news for the Korean peninsula. Scary stuff. http://www.nytimes.com/info/north-korea/

[Maria92]

Hmm...ayup, we're all fucked. War with China = bad outcomes. If you'll excuse me, I have to pack my bags for Canada before the nukes start falling.

[Requiem]

Hell, it's about time. I've been waiting for shit to hit the fan for awhile.

[ChrissyMaria]

Hell, it's about time. I've been waiting for shit to hit the fan awhile. You sound like Dick Cheney now. gosh I hope you aren't serious about 'wanting' a nuclear fucking war. the world is already horrifying enough.

[ninja9578]

North Korea talks big, they always have, but never done anything. We're losing Iraq because we're the only one there. If South Korea and North Korea go to war, South Korea not only has the US, but the entire force of the UN behind it. China will not fight for North Korea, their entire economy is based on selling things to the west.

[jarrhead]

Ninja is right. If China goes with NK, they're all screwed, we're all screwed, and they'll be dead. I mean with 1 billion in an area the size of three of today's nuclear warheads.. we can kill over a billion in minutes. Then the entire UN goes against NK, and in effect china. Now of course we refrain from using nuclear weaponry but when shit hits the fan for real it will be done. Just ask Japan. When we had baby bombs 200-300x less powerful than today's.

[Spartiate]

North Korea talks big, they always have, but never done anything. Except, you know... torpedo ships. This time NK is keeping quiet and denying everything.

[Black_Eagle]

I was thinking about making a thread about this. Also, moved to ED. Like Spartiate said, if this situation escalates and China jumps in, it's anybody's game. China has a vast population and a vast military, but it does not have advanced technology like the Western nations. But then, if things rev up to a full-scale war, there's no telling what kind of tech an oppressive communist regime with very little regard for the lives of its citizens could roll out. When it comes to nukes, China also has a tiny nuclear arsenal (est. 240) compared to the United States (est. 9,400), so nuclear devastation to America is unlikely. But then, I wonder who Russia will side with (est. 13,000)? It's doubtful that this could lead to a full-scale direct war with China, although China may offer underhanded support to the Koreans. China is extremely vested in the United States economy. If it loses its ties with the US, it could spell economic disaster for that nation. This whole thing smells a bit funny if you ask me. The sinking of a single ship could have meant anything. It could have meant trouble among the ranks, or it could be a conspiracy by some other nation. I guess we'll find out, eh? Edit: I mean with 1 billion in an area the size of three of today's nuclear warheads.. Not quite.

[Spartiate]

This whole thing smells a bit funny if you ask me. The sinking of a single ship could have meant anything. It could have meant trouble among the ranks, or it could be a conspiracy by some other nation. The funny thing is that's really similar to how the US got involved in Vietnam. And as for China sitting still because it is economically dependent on the US, well vice-versa. Remember Japan in WW2? The US was controlling the natural resources it was importing a bit too tightly, then Pearl Harbour. I think the stars would have to align for a major war to break out, but this is the first time in a while that there is a genuine possibility.

[slayer]

China has said they won't protect the Korea ship attackers. So basically, North Korea has no friends. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asi...c/10181527.stm

[Black_Eagle]

The funny thing is that's really similar to how the US got involved in Vietnam. Quote from list of proven conspiracies: "Attack on USS Liberty (AGTR-5) LBJ called back rescue planes TWICE after Radio operator found a workaround jamming and called to carrier group for mayday. Israel used unmarked planes and boats to twice attack U.S.Navy listening post ship; jamming American radio channels as a "no flag"/false flag operation. Ruled officially a accident but some largely symbolic reparations were paid. Official coverup continues. The purpose was allegedly to suggest an attack on US by Egypt, in an attempt to get USA involved in the war, fighting on the Israeli side." Not to mention the sinking of the Lusitania. It seems to me that sinking ships is the dominant strategy for getting foreign powers involved in conflict. And as for China sitting still because it is economically dependent on the US, well vice-versa. Remember Japan in WW2? The US was controlling the natural resources it was importing a bit too tightly, then Pearl Harbour. They did lose the war though

[The Invisible Man]

Jeez, this has to happen in my generation? Worst Case Scenario: NK developed Nuclear Weapons, they'll threaten to use it in order to keep the U.S out of the conflict, and NK then dusts SK.

[jarrhead]

I was thinking about making a thread about this. Also, moved to ED. Like Spartiate said, if this situation escalates and China jumps in, it's anybody's game. China has a vast population and a vast military, but it does not have advanced technology like the Western nations. But then, if things rev up to a full-scale war, there's no telling what kind of tech an oppressive communist regime with very little regard for the lives of its citizens could roll out. When it comes to nukes, China also has a tiny nuclear arsenal (est. 240) compared to the United States (est. 9,400), so nuclear devastation to America is unlikely. But then, I wonder who Russia will side with (est. 13,000)? It's doubtful that this could lead to a full-scale direct war with China, although China may offer underhanded support to the Koreans. China is extremely vested in the United States economy. If it loses its ties with the US, it could spell economic disaster for that nation. This whole thing smells a bit funny if you ask me. The sinking of a single ship could have meant anything. It could have meant trouble among the ranks, or it could be a conspiracy by some other nation. I guess we'll find out, eh? Edit: Not quite. This is definitely not including radiation. The radiation from ONE of today's nuclearn warheads has the ability to travel across all of china when winds pick up.

[Marvo]

Why did the US build nine thousand nukes exactly?

[ninja9578]

Why did the US build nine thousand nukes exactly? Same reason rednecks need a lot of big guns: to compensate for a small penis. The presidents who authorized the building of such huge numbers all had one.

[Black_Eagle]

Why did the US build nine thousand nukes exactly? Well, you'd need several hundred to take out most of the population centers in a country like China. Even more to account for land-based missile defenses. Even more to account for armed conflict with multiple heavily-armed nations and their defenses. And what happens when your enemy captures or destroys some of your nukes?

[jarrhead]

The interstates were originally built so the military could transport multiple nuclear weapons and they'd never know where they were at any one time. If we have a massive cold war/world war, we're gonna need them.

[Maria92]

The interstates were originally built so the military could transport multiple nuclear weapons and they'd never know where they were at any one time. If we have a massive cold war/world war, we're gonna need them. If there's ever a massive world war that involves nine thousand nukes, we're all boned anyway. Nuclear winter, anyone?

[Spartiate]

This is definitely not including radiation. The radiation from ONE of today's nuclearn warheads has the ability to travel across all of china when winds pick up. Do you really think that the US would nuke China's cities for being attacked in Korea? What would be the point of that.

[jarrhead]

Spartiate you obviously did not read. If they join the war with North Korea..

[tkdyo]

eh..I feel this is just NK being all bark again. If it is shown that NK caused the sinking then China is going to wash their hands of them. China wants to be accepted by the west, if for no more reason than to gain even more political and economic influence. If it is not proven...I still think China will try in every way to stop NK from starting the actual fire seeing as they dont want to have to fight the whole UN...

[Supernova]

Ninja is right. If China goes with NK, they're all screwed, we're all screwed, and they'll be dead. I mean with 1 billion in an area the size of three of today's nuclear warheads.. we can kill over a billion in minutes. Then the entire UN goes against NK, and in effect china. Now of course we refrain from using nuclear weaponry but when shit hits the fan for real it will be done. Just ask Japan. When we had baby bombs 200-300x less powerful than today's. It will be done...don't forget the only reason that worked in WWII is because we were the only nation that had nuclear technology. Fortunately, China would never risk war with the US, because of how dependant their economy is on exports to the US. On the flip side, however, a cessastion of trade would cut America off fromthe cheap electronics we run on. If there's ever a massive world war that involves nine thousand nukes, we're all boned anyway. Nuclear winter, anyone? If that many nukes were launched, we'd all be dead from blasts or radiation long before nuclear winter set in anyway.

[Alric]

I would like to say we will not enter a war with china or north korea, because honestly we can't affored it all. However we do have some really stupid people in the government, who still believe war is good for the economy, and they might just pull a retarded move to enter the war to try to boost the economy. If we did enter the war, it would be over in two years, max. By that time the US would have lost and our economy will have crashed. What happens half way across the world, would be rather pointless to us at that point. It would be the end of the US being a 'super power' for at least, the next 50 years.

[Spartiate]

Spartiate you obviously did not read. If they join the war with North Korea.. No you obviously did not read. I said that if China were to attack the US in Korea (i.e. fought on North Korea's side), do you really believe that the first course of action for the US would be to nuke Chinese cities? Use your head, the military is not in the business of leveling cities and killing civilians.

[Alric]

Actually that pretty much is there job. However, I don't believe any country is going to nuke anyone else, for any reason. Any one who drops a nuke, is going to get nukes dropped back on them, and no one wants that.