Thread: The Islamization of Europe?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...e/10596808.stm

A relevant example of the absurd political correctness seen in the UK, which is possibly a far bigger problem than any so called Islamization.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...e/10596808.stm

A relevant example of the absurd political correctness seen in the UK, which is possibly a far bigger problem than any so called Islamization.

There's a "suck it up or gtfo" moment if I ever saw one...what silliness.

i heard about this sharia for Belgium.
i find it really disturbing and i saw this muslim guy talking in my language, perfect dutch, about wanting to make belgium muslim and stuff... its funny how everyone here in belgium hates muslims, sharia for belgium would never come through lol.

Don't hate me, but I don't really see Islamization as a major threat. It's not like all Muslims are radical or anything. I actually find Islamic culture to be very beautiful. Of course there are radicals who take the Qur'an too seriously or interpret things that aren't really there, but that happens in most religions, even Christianity. If all Christians took the Bible seriously then everyone would be stoning the gays . I suppose that Europeans might be worried about losing their identity with Islamization, which is very concerning, but Muslims are nothing to be scared of. ....Why can't we all be Shinto .... they respect everyone's beliefs... they even have Kami (spirits) for other religions' gods. (Allah, Shiva, Jesus etc.) I know a Muslim family and they're really nice.... they made me shish-kebabs once .

I mean... the article complains about the Muslims chasing Jews away from France, but if we chase away the Muslims from the West, are we really any better than the anti-semitics? (is it anti-semitics or the anti-semitists? lol)

Originally Posted by SwingMan

Don't hate me, but I don't really see Islamization as a major threat. It's not like all Muslims are radical or anything. I actually find Islamic culture to be very beautiful. Of course there are radicals who take the Qur'an too seriously or interpret things that aren't really there, but that happens in most religions, even Christianity. If all Christians took the Bible seriously then everyone would be stoning the gays . I suppose that Europeans might be worried about losing their identity with Islamization, which is very concerning, but Muslims are nothing to be scared of. ....Why can't we all be Shinto .... they respect everyone's beliefs... they even have Kami (spirits) for other religions' gods. (Allah, Shiva, Jesus etc.) I know a Muslim family and they're really nice.... they made me shish-kebabs once .

I'm really not worried about losing our identity as Europe or as a country. The identity of the Netherlands certainly isn't tulips, wooden shoes and mills, right? If that's the case I really don't care. In my opinion our identity is who we are. If there are no Muslims in our country then this identity doesn't include Muslims, if there are then they certainly belong to it. It's ridiculous, think about it, how can we lose our identity? The only way to lose our identity is for our country to not exist anymore.

Originally Posted by Hot Chocolate

I'm really not worried about losing our identity as Europe or as a country. The identity of the Netherlands certainly isn't tulips, wooden shoes and mills, right? If that's the case I really don't care. In my opinion our identity is who we are. If there are no Muslims in our country then this identity doesn't include Muslims, if there are then they certainly belong to it. It's ridiculous, think about it, how can we lose our identity? The only way to lose our identity is for our country to not exist anymore.

Well yes I'm not worried either, I just thought that someone would bring something like that up. But my point was that you really don't need to worry about Muslim populations growing in Europe.

Originally Posted by SwingMan

Well yes I'm not worried either, I just thought that someone would bring something like that up. But my point was that you really don't need to worry about Muslim populations growing in Europe.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

BBC News - Schools advised against swimming lessons in Ramadan

A relevant example of the absurd political correctness seen in the UK, which is possibly a far bigger problem than any so called Islamization.

Did you even read the article? islamification and political correctness are two closely linked phenomena

The thing about using "islamifiaction" is that it puts too much emphasis on the religious rather than cultural side of things, "islamic" is just easier to say than "morocan/tunisian/algerian/egyptian/iranian/iraqi/pakistani/saudi arbian", the culture is more important than the actual religious following, maybe in some nice affluent areas, a couple of muslims won't do much harm, but for the average inner city area/ average suburb islamification brings substantial change, I mean its nice living in a community where people are generally friendly to each other, know each other, a community that is generally peaceful and stable that doesn't happen in colonised areas. Mass immigration (almost)always changes a community for the worse, but islamic mass immigration is the absolute worst of a bad bunch. I know most of you have never seen the real, on the ground effects of islamic immigration compared to what the news, and political correctness tell you, but it is a problem for those who do live in these areas, luckily my area isn't too colonised (yet) but give it a decade and i'm sure it will be.

Originally Posted by foggy

There seems to be 3 types of people arguing on here. The downright morons that think muslims coming into our country is a bad thing, and all the rest of the racist bullshit is the first group. I urge these people to forget the hatred and idiocy that you have been taught by your less evolved elders, and look at it for what it REALLY is. Go ahead, have an open minded look. An intelligent look

I won't thke that personally as I assume you've been brainwashed by no fault of your own, by the media, what society forces you to accept or the stuff spouted by UAF, if you're one of UAF then in that case there's nothing to excuse you.

"Open minded" I absolutly hate the fact how misused this phrase is, what It originally meant was being able to look at things without prejudice or bias, but now it has been abused and now means "socially liberal/of a far left wing opinion", infact I am the true meaning of open minded, my less elvolved elders did teach me than mass immigration was fine, everyone was perfectly equal yadda yadda, but then I actually decided to consider the point of other without the "i'm not listening to you, you're racist" mindset, I actually listened/read with an open mind, and formed the opinions I now have. Why do you abuse the phrase "open minded"? I agree that being truly open minded is a good thing, but people like you have abused this word.

So thatperson, how have you personally been harmed by the islamization?

Did you even read the article? islamification and political correctness are two closely linked phenomena

There's a difference between some Muslims demanding certain things such as Sharia law, and a bunch of politically correct idiots implementing things which Muslims are NOT asking for because they want to show how "sensitive" they are towards things that "may cause offence".

As I say not that much compared to others as my area isn't as bad as it could be but that doesn't mean i'm not concerned for others who do have to live in islamified areas. I suppose the main thing for me personally is the indirect effect of the higher crime rate as a result and an increased sense of fear due to that. I've had people occasionaly tell me "this Chair is for muslims only" "this table is for muslims only" and threatening me and various others with violence etc. In my old school muslims (maybe 10-15% of the students) probably caused 85% of the disruption. Mass immigration is bad per se, for its own reasons but if people are going to come in hundreds of thousands, they should at least respect the law, show some respect in general. All these factors and more contribute to a somewhat reduced quality of life, if I had to live in Bradford, Brimingham, Many parts of london or lancashire then I'm sure it would be even worse.

Hot chocolate, do you have any experience of going to these highly islamified areas?

Originally Posted by Thatperson

As I say not that much compared to others as my area isn't as bad as it could be but that doesn't mean i'm not concerned for others who do have to live in islamified areas. I suppose the main thing for me personally is the indirect effect of the higher crime rate as a result and an increased sense of fear due to that. I've had people occasionaly tell me "this Chair is for muslims only" "this table is for muslims only" and threatening me and various others with violence etc. In my old school muslims (maybe 10-15% of the students) probably caused 85% of the disruption. Mass immigration is bad per se, for its own reasons but if people are going to come in hundreds of thousands, they should at least respect the law, show some respect in general. All these factors and more contribute to a somewhat reduced quality of life, if I had to live in Bradford, Brimingham, Many parts of london or lancashire then I'm sure it would be even worse.

You know, most people that complain about Islamization don't actually live in those areas. At least that's the case in the Netherlands. Wilders won the most votes in Limburg and Brabant, not places where there are big cities or Muslims.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

Hot chocolate, do you have any experience of going to these highly islamified areas?

Yes I do. My grandmother lives in Amsterdam Slotervaart. About 60% is muslim there. My grandmother is 87 by the way. She doesn't have any problems and neither do I when I go visit her.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

show some respect in general.

That makes you a hypocrite, right?

how did that make me a hypocrite?

You haven't shown much respect, have you?

please elaborate

Got to admit, you're more respectful than most people supporting people like geert wilders. Still you don't think very highly of Muslims. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, but according to you almost all Muslims are bad for society. I don't think that's very respectful. Besides that you've used the word "colonise" several times, which I associate with companies like the Dutch East India Company establishing colonies around the world in the 17th century. If you don't know what that was about, they weren't very nice to the original inhabitants. That's not what's happening in Europe now and so I don't think the usage of the word "colonise" is very respectful. At the same time you want the Muslims to be respectful towards you.

I've had people occasionaly tell me "this Chair is for muslims only" "this table is for muslims only" and threatening me and various others with violence etc. In my old school muslims (maybe 10-15% of the students) probably caused 85% of the disruption.

I find this shocking. What Chairs do you speak of? What tables? Where? Who is telling you this.

How exactly is crime related to immigration in the UK? I'm just asking for info here to anyone; not familiar with this issue.

Maybe things are different in the UK. But immigration as far as Muslims go is totally different in the US, in my experience at least. (NYC/DC) People from those countries integrate quite well into society (and usually, especially Indians/Arabs/Jews have affluent jobs, like doctors/business men/ lawyers..) The bit about those students causing the most disruption is also shocking to me, since here in the US those students are usually (or rather, stereotypically) the most concerned-about-education- as in nerds. That goes for Asians in basic, and by that I mean Indians/East Asians/Pakis/Arabs etc. So I mean, what is the deal in the UK and why is it this way.

Chairs while n the dining hall, it's not as if anyone had regular seats or anything aswell :S Even some strangers (not just kids but like 25) have said "this is a muslim only bench" before.

I think in the US the point is that muslims don't much up much of the population, so therefore they are forced to co-operate with society for now, (as i mentioned earlier msulims tend to be less integrated the longer they have been in a country)

Oslo rape statistics shock - Aftenposten - News in English - Aftenposten.no
I'll find some more statistics later but there is a less serious (albeit still serious) muslims rape problem in the UK one norweigen

Unni Wikan, a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo, in 2001 said that “Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes” because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative.

This is what I mean by islamification, when the native population is forced to adapt as a result of islamic immigration. I'm not saying I agree with what the Dutch East india Colony did was acceptable, but that doesn't give them to right to come attack our way of life 350 years later.

Xox, I note you used the phrase "paki", that word in the UK is viewed in the same way that "Nigger" is viewed in the US. You seem to be neutral on the issue of islamification though so you might get away with it

I was surprised by the paki thing... I looked it up and apparently it's only a racial slur in the UK. That probably reflects poorly on the attitudes of Brits more than anything.

Xox, I'm in the UK and actually I have the same experience as you. Asians (East Asians and South Asians) tend to have a very good work ethic. Asian families tend to place a lot of importance on education as the path to social betterment.

I can only assume thatperson's reports of the UK are the result of confirmation bias. He complains about Muslims being cliquey and prejudiced whilst being blatantly prejudiced and using blanket categorisations himself, he uses isolated quotes from single people as if they have some power or represent anything than a tiny minority of idiots (I've actually heard the exact same quote about women taking blame for rapes before from other people trying to justify their Islamophobia; it's ONE quote from ONE idiot for God's sake, what the hell does that prove? How many quotes could I find from white people condoning aggression against minorities, I wonder? And what would that prove?). And then you get statements like this...

I think in the US the point is that muslims don't much up much of the population, so therefore they are forced to co-operate with society for now, (as i mentioned earlier msulims tend to be less integrated the longer they have been in a country)

Ooh yeah, maybe! Or then again, perhaps it's because they're just NORMAL SOCIABLE PEOPLE. Christ...

I'm getting so tired of this discussion. These people are here. That's the way it is and that's not going to change, so either we can complain about each others presence or we can work together to make the best out of the situation. Surely you can't be against that?

Yeah I'll agree East asians and indians often have a goodt work ethic (from my experience), even a few muslims do aswell, but this is usually to gain power in the community so that they can have an old boys network, gain influence and have islamic dominance.

Xei, What is your explanation then of the fact that the highest support for the BNP is in areas like Barking, Dagenham, Bradford, Burnley, Dewsbury, the areas with the highest concentration of muslims.