Thread: Finally, A 10 second lucid induction! Title -*MFG*

Just curious, whats your success rate on this?

I don't know about malac, however I had about seven lds since starting this. Proberly, more.

Malac, I think you're emphasis on the moving you're arm is making this technique to complicated. Also, I fail to see how you need to visualize, all you need to be is sufficently tired and slept for a long amount.

I think it more efficient just to move out of you're bed and do an RC, and don't bother with grabbing an object.

Originally Posted by wendylove

I don't know about malac, however I had about seven lds since starting this. Proberly, more.

Malac, I think you're emphasis on the moving you're arm is making this technique to complicated. Also, I fail to see how you need to visualize, all you need to be is sufficently tired and slept for a long amount.

I think it more efficient just to move out of you're bed and do an RC, and don't bother with grabbing an object.

Elaborate on what you do, so I'll know what you're talking about

Yeah I think he means your REAL hands.

But ah, got a favor to ask.
I want to try out this technique, but unfortunately my visualization skills kind of.. major suck.
So could you.. or anyone tell me how or link me a site on how to practice it.

Many thanks.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Ok this really needs explaining better.

Can you answer these questions in as few words as possible...

1) Do your real (as in physical, actual) hands EVER move in this process?

2) if your real hands do move, isn't this going to effect your ability to fall into the dream?

3) If your real hands never actualy move, but it's just an imagination of your real hands moving, then, why refer to them as your real hands?


I can see the benefit of focusing on tactile hallucinations to enter the dream, as i've always found the tactile aspect of the dream to be the first and last element of the dream to start/end.

I'm not being funny here, i just need this reworded in a way that dosn't cause confusion.

Do my physical hands ever move in this process?

No, your physical hands do not ever move. He says "real hands" so often because he is trying to make it clear that you are supposed to feel as if your physical hands are moving. They are not supposed to actually move, though.

Hey so I tried this last night.. I woke up almost 2-3 times and tried it each time.

The problem was that I pretty much fell asleep before I even could get any real vivid images in my head. Usually I'm really good at mental imaging, but last night was a disgrace. Any ideas?

Aha, Malac. You seem to have done well this time.

I'll be honest... someone told me you had another tech and I got my skeptic pad out and looked to see what it was all about. I was very happy to find a quite logical and helpful v-wild tech/supplement. I give this the arby official stamp of approval... whatever that means anymore around here XD

Also, no (well almost no) 100%/superiority dressings so I give you another for that. Welcome to the trustable technique community, malac. =)

I leaned back, stepped through this and got a vivid rainforest (grabbed a big fern leaf) and it worked pretty well but I didn't like the pause after you grab the leaf and look around. It is a chance for instability when the visualization might not have fully stableized/matured yet. Thus I present a twist I played with. Instead I grabbed an interactable object and used it. In my case, I grabbed a stick off the ground and started to hit the things closest to me with it. Kept me occupied longer and led up a little plot (whacked an animal etc... not gonna get into all that XD).

Well, this worked for me last night, with some modification. I woke up after 6-7 hours of sleep, then lay back down to sleep. I then relaxed and let my mind wander for about 5 minutes, until I was in that stage where I was getting intermittent hallucinations. Then, I began to visualise a scene, becoming brighter. I turned my attention to my arm, and I could definitely feel both my dream arm and real arm superimposed. I focused on the dream arm, and began to move it forward. However, I didn't get far before it 'snapped back', and could again only feel my real body. I started up a new visualisation, just trying to see a single object this time (I didn't attempt to consciously influence what it would be), and this time, was able to fully separate my dream body from my real body. I was then in a dream, in my bedroom, but my (dream) eyes were closed. I did many nose RCs, to make sure it was a dream (not having eyesight made it harder to spot differences), then sat down on my bed, and attempted to crack my eyes open. I managed this a few times, but each time, I felt like opening them any more would open my real eyes and wake me up, so I stayed blind. When I did crack my eyes open, I saw a sunset through the windows. The dream lasted about 20-30 seconds, probably because I had already slept quite a few hours, and because the curtains are basically useless, so there was sunlight streaming into my real bedroom. Also, I was unable to really do any of the usual stabilising techniques, such as looking at my hands, or examining objects. In hindsight, I should have thought to rub my palms together once I had done the RCs.

Seems effective. Last night I tried it out and it seemed to have worked. I managed to slip into a dream but lost it shortly thereafter. That was probably because I have not attempted LD'ing in a good while and am a bit rusty.
Still, for that amount of success on a first try, I was pretty impressed with myself and this method.

I remember reading about how there was all kinda of arguments of some such regarding a 'malac' but I'm not sure what that was all about...this idea of yours seems to be effective, as far as I can tell. I'll work with it a bit more and see what happens.

Originally Posted by Tryble

I remember reading about how there was all kinda of arguments of some such regarding a 'malac' but I'm not sure what that was all about...this idea of yours seems to be effective, as far as I can tell. I'll work with it a bit more and see what happens.

All you need to know is that Malac has made himself a... er "Well known figure" around here before. But from what I see, he might deserve a clean slate.

On that note, I just found the time to browse the thread and I have some more comments:

For people who are having trouble visualizing - There are many tricks and threads scattered around to help you do so. The best word of advice I can give you is to use something from memory. Any memory that is vivid. Movie, place you've been, place you've been in a dream.... If you can remember what it looks like well then you've already done the first few steps. You have visualized it. It is that easy. Then, you try to bring everything into better focus at once / brighten it / make it more colorful (They all describe the same thing, mind you. It's just hard to put it into words) and reach out to it with your hands that are in the same place as it.

There are a few good threads on visualizing. The one I would recommend most to partner with this tech is Kromoh's VILD due to it's more lightweight and conceptual nature. Tis exactly what the doctor ordered.

There's also a need to promote my own, of course, which is in my sig. Although it might be slightly too heavy for use here. It could help people who are grabbing thin air tho =O.

Helpful stuff aside, this is for you malac. Cut the "OMG I MADE A FAST TECH" crap. By defininition, all V-WILD (Visual WILD, your tech falls under this classification) can take under 10 seconds. And seeing as there have been many V-WILD techs before this, you lose. It doesn't even impress anyone. I can understand wanting more people to click on the title and make sure you get your 15 minutes of fame(somethign you've tried too hard for before, and not succedded at, at least in the way you were intending) But stop the gloating and the attitude. You know where it gets you.

I Challenge someone to make a technique faster than this.

I DARE someone to make an instant induction!

"Materialize yourself conceptually into a dreamscape"

This is a fully functional technique although I've only met a handful of people who could do this. You might make it a handful plus one, i'm not quite sure. You're evidently on your way if you aren't there already.

But desbite my bitterness, you're still good in my books, k? Stuff like this just gets on my nerves. It makes me feel like "100% inducction, $5.99!" or "10 second induction, $19.99" Is the next step for this once awesome and modest community.

Peace

i tried last night and got up went toliet came back tried it i saw flashy colours then i saw pictures then it got foggy then i just failed :S ill try again tonite i think it was cuz i took like 10 minutes to actually try it

Originally Posted by malac

I DARE someone to make an instant induction!

Have you ever heard of DILD?

Originally Posted by acodemaster

Have you ever heard of DILD?

I think the real question is, have you?

Dude, he's right.
This isn't 10 seconds either because it takes way longer to get the visuals.
DILD you already have the visuals and just suddenly realise you are dreaming so become lucid instantly. It just takes longer from when you start dreaming. Unless you get lucid a few second after your dream begins.

I think the question is when do you start timing from? What says this is 10 seconds? Is it from the time you lay down to the time you enter the dream? Or the time you start getting visuals to the time you enter the dream.

Well, I've just re-read Malacs original post.

If your waking up, getting up, having a pee and going back to bed, then
your going to be WILDing, and it will take a lot longer than 10 seconds.

Though happy to be proven wrong on this.

Originally Posted by tommo

Dude, he's right.
This isn't 10 seconds either because it takes way longer to get the visuals.
DILD you already have the visuals and just suddenly realise you are dreaming so become lucid instantly. It just takes longer from when you start dreaming. Unless you get lucid a few second after your dream begins.

I think the question is when do you start timing from? What says this is 10 seconds? Is it from the time you lay down to the time you enter the dream? Or the time you start getting visuals to the time you enter the dream.

Completely agree.
There really isn't anything new here.
And calling it a 10 second induction so emphatically and to be frank, arrogantly, is meaningless.
If you actually read the "Technique"
the very first step requires you to sleep for quite a few hours... which in itself immediatly wipes out the 10 second claim. If you ignore that side of things, then when is this magical 10 second timer starting?
Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?

All thats really being said here is to focus on the tactile aspect of dream entry rather than the visual or auditory, which is a fair point, but dosn't qualify as a method in itself.

It makes sense that if you are visualising a dreamscene, to try and move in it.
Isn't that just obvious?
It's exactly what i'd do. Who visualises a dream scene and just ignores it and dosn't try and move into it?

I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.

It may just be hard for people to search through so many threads.
Like "VILD" for example.
Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us.
So they just whack their method on.

Maybe the solution is to put a method on and make no claims or copyrights and see what people say.
If its new you will get only great feedback.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

I appreciate that people want to come up with techniques and have thier name put to it. Does that really mean we should just accept every variation on known methods as new techniques? I don't think so, maybe i'm alone on this, but i don't think i am.

You're not alone. It's starting to piss me off. Everybody is re-wording old techniques, not even solely old; these techniques are on wiki ffs, and then acting like they came up with it.
Then all these noobs come in, and I've even seen mods follow the crows, and give the person all this praise, and 'thankyou thankyou thankyou'.
No I'm not praise-deprived, but the praise or recognition should go to the creators of the techniques. WILD, VILD, WBTB, RC's etc.

Dreamchaser, it doesn't matter if they haven't been around as long as us.
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=66857
Every known, tested technique is in there.
People can adjust and twist it how they want, just as all these malac types have done.
As far as I can tell there will never be more than maybe two additions to that list. One would be some sort of way to instantly go into the dream world. Maybe some sort of drug which induces the exact same brainwaves as lucid dreaming. The other would probably be a device which does the same thing.
You said "Who would know to search for it if you weren't around as long as some of us." Who would know to search for Malac's grab technique?
Someone else is going to post the exact same thing in a few months except saying "when you see the dreamscape, lick whatever is in front of you". You see what I'm saying? It's exactly the same as rolling.

I guess what I'm saying is that none of these 'techniques' are unique. They are just people's personal twists on techniques.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

There really isn't anything new here.
And calling it a 10 second induction so emphatically and to be frank, arrogantly, is meaningless.
If you actually read the "Technique"
the very first step requires you to sleep for quite a few hours... which in itself immediately wipes out the 10 second claim. If you ignore that side of things, then when is this magical 10 second timer starting?
Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?

I'm new to this thread, and new to the forums in general. But as I was skimming through this thread, I noticed the general mood change. Read the first page and see all the positive posts contributing. Then skip to the second last page and start seeing insults and, what I see as jealousy.

Okay, spaceexplorer, I'm picking on you because your posts sounds like something a 15 year old would say with a 5 year old brain. So, let's get technical, shall we!

The method cannot be deemed a 10 second method because it requires "quite a few hours" which "itself immediately wipes out the 10 second claim". Right? But wait, even you are wrong! Because the method actually requires you to be born first, and then reach an age in which you can read the method, and then reach a mental level of competence in order to actually carry out the method, and THEN several hours of sleep! So, maybe we should actually call this the life-long method! But doesn't a WBTB WILD require several hours of sleep also? Would you deem that a long and drawn-out process? Probably not!

Next childish comment.

"Also what here is really new and not just a rewording or hashing together of things that are already well known?"

Well, I for one (and being a noob, you should be ashamed that I noticed this and not you) noticed the use of reaching out with your real hands to be new. I haven't seen this before. I've read more about a WILD where you DON'T try to move, and it can take up to 30 minutes to fully enter the dream.

So, why does it bother you that someone has come up with a method you didn't think up? Why? You should be thankful! I haven't actually tried this method, but I will. And as long as I keep a positive attitude, it'll probably work for me. As for you, it may require an attitude adjustment first. Let go of the jealousy and put your big girl panties on. Just give the guy and his method the time of day at least. And if it still doesn't work for you, then that's all...it didn't work for you. Do you bash LaBerge for developing techniques that don't work for you? Suck it up, man!

As for malac...good job. I like seeing fresh ideas. Even the slightest alteration can be a whole new spin off something old and worn.